France Convicts 5 Gitmo Inmates

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]pookie wrote:

But let’s say you’re correct and that the detainees at Gitmo are all proper prisoner of war. What conditions will indicate that it’s time to exchange them or release them?
[/quote]

What conditions would cause Canada to release US combatants in this hypothetical war? While hostilities continued? Would you really?

I don’t see them as criminals. I see them as an enemy that is at war with us. And us at war with them. Am I unreasonable? Can a reasonable person hold this view?

I think you’re a fair enough guy. So, please don’t take this as me badgering your position. I won’t try to drag this out into some multi-page debate between us. Just curious.

22

Yes, bombing thousands of innocent people is indeed dirty and does nothing for my defense. Quite the opposite it increases hostility towards America and myself.

You live in Bizarro World though, where bombing entire countries while trying to target only a select group is seen as a means of self defense and preservation.

The obvious problem with such flawed thinking is that you’re doing anything other than inflating the problem. Killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people only breeds contempt and a whole new slew of people more than willing to take up arms against occupiers of their land who murdered their family.

If China freed you tomorrow from the oppressive reigns of George Bush and just happened to bomb your whole family in the process, would you greet them with open arms or dedicate your life to fighting them?

You’re insane though, so none of this makes any sense to you.

23

Good! Although a 1 year sentence is petty and we still should have killed these intolerant bastards with a 3 cent bullet, it’s still a step in the right direction for Radical Islamic Loving Europe.

Oh yeah, I also see this as a fuck you to Canada. Would be nice if the Canucks would stop their fucking crying about Omar Khadr!

24

Hey, there is some justice. None of them will be doing anymore time behind bars…

"The five were convicted of “criminal association with a terrorist enterprise,” a broad charge frequently used in France. Although the court handed them one-year prison sentences, none of them will be returning behind bars.

The men all served provisional sentences upon their return to France that counted toward their new sentences. By the time the trial ended, all had been freed.

The court followed the recommendations of Prosecutor Sonya Djemni-Wagner, who said in her arguments Dec. 11 that she did not support “the Guantanamo system” and the men’s “abnormal detention there.”

“None of them should have been held on that base, in defiance of international law, and have had to go through what they went through,” she said."

25

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Let’s say two side are fighting. Can they not take prisoners and detain them without trial, until hostilities cease? [/quote]

How about the people your government abducted, detained and tortured in overseas prisons?

26

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Let’s say two side are fighting. Can they not take prisoners and detain them without trial, until hostilities cease?

How about the people your government abducted, detained and tortured in overseas prisons?[/quote]

Care to answer?

27

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Let’s say two side are fighting. Can they not take prisoners and detain them without trial, until hostilities cease?

How about the people your government abducted, detained and tortured in overseas prisons?[/quote]

Or the ones YOUR people abducted, tortured with power tools and then beheaded?

28

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Care to answer?[/quote]

Obviously, and just like the crushing majority of people around here, I highly condemn such actions.

Let me rephrase my question: knowing that many such kidnapped people were cases of mistaken identity, what is your response? Are you among those that say “shit happens”? Are you OK with guilty until proven innocent?

29

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Or the ones YOUR people abducted, tortured with power tools and then beheaded? [/quote]

You’re an absolute moron.

Those actions gained in popularity due to the US invasion of Iraq. They are not using my tax-money, or did they ever have my support. I could sympathize with Iraqis who want a free country and resort to capturing (which is a totally different animal from kidnapping) US soldiers. But I certainly would never support torturing or killing them.

You can’t even make the distinction between an armed person who is invading your country and a perfectly innocent civilian.

What is your reaction to El-Masri’s case going public? Do you think there is a chance that many more are not surfacing?

30

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Or the ones YOUR people abducted, tortured with power tools and then beheaded?

You’re an absolute moron.

[/quote]

High praise indeed coming from the likes of you.

Your people kidnap, torture and murder construction workers trying to bring up Iraq’s infrastructure and it is A-OK with you because the US deposed a tyrant.

The US detains terrorists around the globe regardless of country of origin and we are the bad guy.

Brilliant logic.

31

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Hold the phone! Wait a fucking second…

These guys were “detained”(see: imprisoned) for over 3 years only to finally be charged with “association with a terrorist group” which holds a one year sentence???

So, they did 3 years at Gitmo, to later be charged with a one year sentence???

These men have already served their time and then some.

Explain to me why these men have to serve out this 1 year sentence when they already were locked up for 3+ years.

This “war” is so fucking retarded that somehow, seemingly impossible, it still manages to become even dumber.[/quote]

Until your family member is killed.

In that case, your entire perspective changes.

Your “it doesn’t affect me so I don’t care” crap is reprehensible.

You should be fined for being you.

JeffR

32

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Yes, bombing thousands of innocent people is indeed dirty and does nothing for my defense. Quite the opposite it increases hostility towards America and myself.

You live in Bizarro World though, where bombing entire countries while trying to target only a select group is seen as a means of self defense and preservation.

The obvious problem with such flawed thinking is that you’re doing anything other than inflating the problem. Killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people only breeds contempt and a whole new slew of people more than willing to take up arms against occupiers of their land who murdered their family.

If China freed you tomorrow from the oppressive reigns of George Bush and just happened to bomb your whole family in the process, would you greet them with open arms or dedicate your life to fighting them?

You’re insane though, so none of this makes any sense to you.[/quote]

Bad example.

If china took over, you’d be silenced by people in power.

JeffR

33

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071220/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_071218202076

More from lixy’s friends. I wonder if we had a proper search warrant before we went in.

34

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
High praise indeed coming from the likes of you. [/quote]

You deserve it associating me with people who kidnap, torture and kill.

[quote]The US detains terrorists around the globe regardless of country of origin and we are the bad guy.

Brilliant logic.[/quote]

No, you dope. What makes you the bad guy, is your unwillingness to admit that many of the detainees are not in any way associated with terrorism (see your reply to Lifticus’ post). It’s the we-do-as-we-please attitude of your government. It’s the wars of aggression your army wages all over the world because it’s-for-the-aggressed’s-own-good.

You and your ilk are giving Americans a bad name by justifying kidnappings, torture, terrorism, murder and everything the CIA, US military and other private contractors are doing. Thank God you are not in the majority or we would be on the brink of a world war.

35

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
High praise indeed coming from the likes of you.

You deserve it associating me with people who kidnap, torture and kill.

The US detains terrorists around the globe regardless of country of origin and we are the bad guy.

Brilliant logic.

No, you dope. What makes you the bad guy, is your unwillingness to admit that many of the detainees are not in any way associated with terrorism (see your reply to Lifticus’ post). It’s the we-do-as-we-please attitude of your government. It’s the wars of aggression your army wages all over the world because it’s-for-the-aggressed’s-own-good.

You and your ilk are giving Americans a bad name by justifying kidnappings, torture, terrorism, murder and everything the CIA, US military and other private contractors are doing. Thank God you are not in the majority or we would be on the brink of a world war.[/quote]

Utter bullshit. Capture and detention of terrorists is a legitimate tool in this war against radical Islamic terrorism. Most of those released were involved but it was decided that it was not worth holding on to them anymore thinking that they had no further info to give and they would not get back involved with terrorism. In many cases they went right back to their murderous ways.

Only in very few cases has an innocent man been detained.

I contrast this with your side setting off bombs in groups of religious pilgrims and kidnapping, murdering and torturing people trying to rebuild Iraq.

You criticize every single tool we use to combat radical Islamic terrorism.

You are transparent in your support for the terrorists and their goals but you are too cowardly to admit it. Occasionally you let your real feelings bleed through when you call 12 year old rape victims sluts and defend Iran for hanging homosexuals.

You may fool some of the guys that post here but the overwhelming majority of people that read your hogwash see right through it.

36

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Only in very few cases has an innocent man been detained. [/quote]

Tell me how you figured that one out.

You base your claim on absolutely nothing. You are just willing to give the CIA the benefit of the doubt and think that their intelligence and ethics are flawless.

You jumped on Lifticus’ throat when he dared to state the obvious; i.e: Neither are all held guilty. You said that he doesn’t “know that”, yet here you acknowledge that there are cases where innocents have been wrongfully detained (and may I add, tortured and abused).

So your logic is that if I’m not with you, I’m am with the terrorists?

It’s not my side. I didn’t vote for them, I’m not giving them money and I don’t support their crimes.

Explain to me how wrecking a secular country, killing thousands and displacing millions a “tool […] to combat radical Islamic terrorism”. You exacerbated radical Islamic terrorism in Iraq.

Hogway, ey? You call it so because I defend the right of Iraqis to resist the presence of foreign troops on their soil? If a foreign power invaded your country, bombed the hell out of it, its soldiers raped, tortured and killed your compatriots, and its “private contractors” (A.K.A. mercenaries) are above the law, would you not shoot at them and do anything you can to drive them out of your land?

You speak of “overwhelming majority”, but which is the presidential candidate breaking records in donations and grassroots support and what are his positions on the issue? The majority of Americans are against the war in Iraq, against torture, against secret prisons, against kidnapping innocent civilians, and all those things you justify and cheer at.

People like you giving ammo Al-Qaeda are enemies of freedom and peace.

37

[quote]Sloth wrote:
What conditions would cause Canada to release US combatants in this hypothetical war? While hostilities continued? Would you really?[/quote]

Presumably, the hostilities cease, a peace treaty is signed and both countries then exchange prisoners… Like I said, war between nations is rather well codified by now.

My question is: When is the war against terrorists over? My feeling is that it never is (simply because it never can be). The government then use that as a licence to hold people indefinitely. They don’t have to say who they’re holding, or why or for how long. It suffices to them to name them “enemy combatants” to be rid of them forever.

I don’t know about you, but a government with so much unchecked power makes me uneasy.

Sure, why not. What makes me curious is why you think that checks and balances are not needed here. Shouldn’t there at least be a way for people caught by mistake to make their presence known?

It’s mostly that part that bothers me. That they don’t enjoy the full rights of a citizen doesn’t really matter. That there is no independent or third party oversight on these operations is what I find troubling.

I can see you point, and they’re not unreasonable positions to hold. I still would like to know when “the war on terror” will be considered over. If those people are prisoners of war, then it is normally expected that they’ll be released/exchange/tried once the war ends. When does the WOT do so?

38

[quote]lixy wrote:
…Hogway, ey? You call it so because I defend the right of Iraqis to resist the presence of foreign troops on their soil? If a foreign power invaded your country, bombed the hell out of it, its soldiers raped, tortured and killed your compatriots, and its “private contractors” (A.K.A. mercenaries) are above the law, would you not shoot at them and do anything you can to drive them out of your land?

…[/quote]

I don’t feel like addressing the rest of your blather but this is particularly silly.

Your compatriots are not torturing and murdering mercenaries and American soldiers except in isolated instances. They are murdering and torturing Iraqis and other poor slobs that are trying to help them out by rebuilding their sewage treatment systems, electrical infrastructure etc.

39

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:
Hold the phone! Wait a fucking second…

These guys were “detained”(see: imprisoned) for over 3 years only to finally be charged with “association with a terrorist group” which holds a one year sentence???

So, they did 3 years at Gitmo, to later be charged with a one year sentence???

These men have already served their time and then some.

Explain to me why these men have to serve out this 1 year sentence when they already were locked up for 3+ years.

This “war” is so fucking retarded that somehow, seemingly impossible, it still manages to become even dumber.

Until your family member is killed.

In that case, your entire perspective changes.

Your “it doesn’t affect me so I don’t care” crap is reprehensible.

You should be fined for being you.

JeffR

[/quote]
Did I misread? Did these men kill anyone? No, I didn’t think so.

So you’re telling me that if a man you associate with killed someone tomorrow you should be charged as a murderer as well because you knew him? That’s what you’re saying here. Am I correct? Now, association with a criminal equates into not only guilt, but also their crime?

I’m seriously confused by what you’re implying here or trying to say. All I’m seeing is “blah blah I’m a retard wop wop wop wah wah kill the muslims bloh bluh blah”. Seriously, this forum is just chock full of devolved creatures.

40

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Let’s say two side are fighting. Can they not take prisoners and detain them without trial, until hostilities cease?

How about the people your government abducted, detained and tortured in overseas prisons?

Or the ones YOUR people abducted, tortured with power tools and then beheaded?

[/quote]

They should be caught, tried and executed.

What about the Americans doing the same?