[quote]firebug9 wrote:
In case you have not noticed those of us T-Vixens are not Dainty by any means!
[/quote]
The ones that don’t fit the ‘dainty’ bill will stick around, the one’s that are easily offended by sometimes crude male behavior will have a tendency to prefer the new site designed with ‘dainty’ women in mind.
[quote]TC wrote:
The MWA site, or what we did yesterday with the forums, has nothing–I repeat, nothing–to do with the issues I brought up in my Atomic Dog (the infamous inflammatory one) or the audio that followed.
We’ve yet to figure out a course of action regarding those issues.
You know, maybe I’m the true butthead here, because I can’t figure out what the anger is all about.
So, I ask you again, my taxtime beleagured friend, be patient and have some faith.
[/quote]
I think the anger stems from exactly what you just said. No, not the beleaguered taxtime friend part, but that this move was not part of any discussion, nor was any warning given. It just happened.
I know you and Tim have the fuzzy nuts around here, but part of the uniqueness of T-Nation is that there are hundreds, nay thousands, of folks just like me that believe that this site is theirs.
Just one small example:
My wife is a Waterbury fanatic. She reads what he has to say and does it. She has every one of his articles printed out and in a notebook. Not really a fitness/figure fan, she prefers to read about how men train, because she trains like a man.
BUT -
Jana considered the t-vixen forum her home here. I think the ladies like her, October Girl, JillyBop, Firebug, and others deserved the consideration of at least letting them know you were thinking about the change.
Instead, their home was no longer here, and they were told that if they want to talk about chick shit, it would be on another site.
In short, I think the anger comes from how it was handled.
Now if you will pardon me, I have about 42.7 hours of sleep to catch up on.
TC
I was the one who called the new site the basement. It may just be the prettiest basement there ever was but … And as Jilly said, kind of feels like being a red headed step child.
Maybe a heads-up would have changed the dramatic reaction to the change. I don’t know.
But on “Forum Move?” DCTrainer posted that he probably wouldn’t be visiting the other site to read the threads to rspond. This diminishes a potential resource base for women if the men don’t jump over to the other site.
I will post on whatever site I feel will best answer my questions.
I am sure I will read both sites.
Were you really surprised by the reaction?
Celeste
[quote]TC wrote:
…I can’t figure out what the anger is all about.[/quote]
I don’t think “anger” is accurate, but I won’t presume to speak for the women regarding what their reactions are.
I will, however, presume to attempt to possibly explain the reaction of some of the women here:
You said in an earlier post “They [women] can have as large a voice as they’d like right here.”
Had you solicited input from the women before the changes were made, that would have been an “action” showing their voices are welcome and heard.
Not doing so, instead saying after-the-fact that their voices are welcome and heard, as you do above, is more “words” than “actions”. Applying the great old general rule “actions speak louder than words” - while “words” are good, “actions” are better.
Even if you didn’t incorporate their suggestions, it would have better showed their voices are heard, and it would have better explained the changes, and better prepared folks for the changes.
It’s your site and you can make whatever changes you wish, however you want. You’ve been very successful here, and part of being successful means that many care about the site and what happens to it.
Please take the suggestions/criticisms in that light - not as negatives but as positives.
[quote]…be patient and have some faith.[/quote]This is a reasonable request, one you’ve earned the right to ask for and to expect us to honor.
There’s talk about further changes in the near future . . . maybe a heads up this time will change the reaction of the changes. Just a thought.
This is like Deja Vu. I remember when the format went from T-Mag to T-Nation. People were furious; T-Mag was no longer hardcore and was now aimed at the broader mass of people. Brock Strasser disappeared as did Strasseroids. People thought it was the end of the world and T-Nation would shrivel up and die. Then people adjusted and started to even like the new format.
It slowly began to gel, instead of “Letters to the Editors” and “Gang of Five”. There was this new bulletin board format, where readers could talk to each other and ask questions/talk with the contributors. They had “Poster of the Week” (as opposed to being overwhelmed by trolls).
They had this column called T-Jacked where people could get free stuff and more important (and the real meaning of it) they could write a review on what they liked or didn’t like.
Different things come and go; the only real constant is change. But change is necessary, to never change is to die. Death is the ultimate constant; when something dies it stays that way forever.
With all respect to the women?s arguments, it wasn’t that long ago that the only representation women had on T-Nation was the “Powerful Images” photo.
The addition of the T-Vixen Sorority was a small civil war in itself. A large constituency was screaming that this is T-Nation not E-Nation. The recent changes are nothing more than another set in the evolution of T-Nation. Nobody wants to be a teen-ager for ever.
If you all take a deep breath and hold on to your pre-conceived images of what T-Nation is according to you, you?ll find this website gets better with time not worse.
Just because Tim and TC and LowFatMatt want to paint the house a different color doesn?t necessarily mean they want to burn it down…
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
TC
I was the one who called the new site the basement. It may just be the prettiest basement there ever was but … And as Jilly said, kind of feels like being a red headed step child.
[/quote]
Listen ladies,
You cannot possibly believe that any of this is to produce a sort of T-Nation surfdom for woman. Of all the things I’ve thought about the recent changes, something like that never even crossed my mind.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Oh, the good ol’ days…
Now we have to drill a hole in the shower wall…
[/quote]
LMFAO!
It think you’ll find though, that they are still in our bathroom - and they don’t want to leave either.
People, give TC a chance; I’m sure he’s not trying to alienate anyone, and once more of the changes are in place, things will fall together.
Some things may not work, and some things will - but I’m sure they will be fixed for the better.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
TC
I was the one who called the new site the basement. It may just be the prettiest basement there ever was but … And as Jilly said, kind of feels like being a red headed step child.
Listen ladies,
You cannot possibly believe that any of this is to produce a sort of T-Nation surfdom for woman. Of all the things I’ve thought about the recent changes, something like that never even crossed my mind.[/quote]
a SURFDOM would be very cool! I am liking that idea.
Sleep is good. TC and T-Nation didn’t intend to slight the women they want our money.
The rollout was a bit shocking. I am sure you can see where that was a surprise.
They want the women’s money so it will be interesting to see what T-Nation does to cater more to a woman’s market.
I can and will post where I want despite all you man-trolls and cooties.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
As a woman I have a different perspective on the changes. It seems as if T-Nation has decided that the female forums aren’t worthy of the attention for serious training and we’ve been sent “off-site”.
I thought the figure competitor section was a step in acknowledging women who train hard.
This site seems even less open for women now.
We can train like a man, but our training questions won’t enjoy the same status of men, or rather, we can’t ask female-specific questions on the main board but will need to go off-site.
Sssssshhh… don’t have a valid point. It will ruin everything. Remember, this is apparently all about trolls, not women.
EXACTLY!!!
what a “wag the dog” that all was.
I don’t really think you men were upset with sharing board space with us.
We are going to miss you. I would rather the women stayed here.[/quote]
I always thought of the women here in the same vein as phone-sex gals - using fake stories and photos to make us think they’re hot women who like to lift weights when they’re really grizzled-looking ex-Marines with heroin addictions.
DB
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
TC
I was the one who called the new site the basement. It may just be the prettiest basement there ever was but … And as Jilly said, kind of feels like being a red headed step child.
Listen ladies,
You cannot possibly believe that any of this is to produce a sort of T-Nation surfdom for woman. Of all the things I’ve thought about the recent changes, something like that never even crossed my mind.
a SURFDOM would be very cool! I am liking that idea.
Sleep is good. TC and T-Nation didn’t intend to slight the women they want our money.
The rollout was a bit shocking. I am sure you can see where that was a surprise.
They want the women’s money so it will be interesting to see what T-Nation does to cater more to a woman’s market.
I can and will post where I want despite all you man-trolls and cooties.
[/quote]
You’ll post where we damn well tell you or you’ll have another black eye. And you better not have moved that computer out of the kitchen again, or so help me…
And another thing, my beer is almost empty.
I think the segregation of the women is a direct response to “300”. TC wants us men to get down to training “Spartan style”, if you know what I mean. [snap snap], time to oil up and get busy boys [lispy voice].
DB
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
I always thought of the women here in the same vein as phone-sex gals - using fake stories and photos to make us think they’re hot women who like to lift weights when they’re really grizzled-looking ex-Marines with heroin addictions.
DB[/quote]
Semper Fi, baby.
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
I always thought of the women here in the same vein as phone-sex gals - using fake stories and photos to make us think they’re hot women who like to lift weights when they’re really grizzled-looking ex-Marines with heroin addictions.
DB[/quote]
And how exactly is that different from the men who post here? 
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I can and will post where I want despite all you man-trolls and cooties.[/quote]
That’s the spirit.
And happy anniversary.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Sleep is good. TC and T-Nation didn’t intend to slight the women they want our money.
The rollout was a bit shocking. I am sure you can see where that was a surprise.
They want the women’s money so it will be interesting to see what T-Nation does to cater more to a woman’s market.
I can and will post where I want despite all you man-trolls and cooties.
[/quote]
Obviously Biotest is a company and is about making money, but don’t get it confused with an EAS type company. This site is a lot more than seeing how much more it can make off of its members.
I’m sure many posters have never bought a single supplement from the store while others spend hundreds a month. It’s all relative. Additionally I assume most if not all of the article writers are unpaid.
While you are at it why don’t you post your last 6 receipts from the Biotest store? If you are a high paying customer certainly this site will cater to all of your needs, since its all about Biotest wanting womens’ money!
[quote]Playboy wrote:
Additionally I assume most if not all of the article writers are unpaid.
[/quote]
The writers are paid. My budget for writers is about $16,000 a month.
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
…
I always thought of the women here in the same vein as phone-sex gals - using fake stories and photos to make us think they’re hot women who like to lift weights when they’re really grizzled-looking ex-Marines with heroin addictions.
DB[/quote]
Thanks. I will never look at them the same way again.
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
I always thought of the women here in the same vein as phone-sex gals - using fake stories and photos to make us think they’re hot women who like to lift weights when they’re really grizzled-looking ex-Marines with heroin addictions.
DB
Semper Fi, baby.
[/quote]
Welcome back!!!
[quote]TC wrote:
Playboy wrote:
Additionally I assume most if not all of the article writers are unpaid.
The writers are paid. My budget for writers is about $16,000 a month.
[/quote]
Hey, I have some articles!..talk to me!!!