First, [quote]The Mage[/quote] (That would be me) [quote]wrote:
Now I am an atheist, but I see that there is some history to the bible. For example I kind of believe in Noah’s flood.
Now why would I do that? Does anyone know what happened about 12,000 to 13,000 years ago? The waters rose 300 feet. (Damn fossil fuels.) This might just be the original basis of the flood.
I truly believe that the old world was destroyed by a flood. But most people don’t even know the flood is still here. The waters never really went down. (There were 1 or 2 different times when the waters rose within a millennium of this event adding about 100 more feet.) [/quote]
I don’t think I put it as eloquently as I could have, but then [quote]XCelticX responded:
There have been numerous ‘floods’ throughout the Earth’s history. Moving out of an ice age, with temperatures raising, would involve a ‘flood’. People generally attribute something on that big a scale to cosmic powers(God), as people do for almost everything they can’t explain and don’t understand.
The flood in the Bible, however, was supposed to be sudden, killing ALL THE HUMANS on EARTH except those in the arc. That means the flood would have to be over all of the lands people inhabitted, which means water would cover every single major continent on Earth except Antarctica. That is VERY impossible, I assure you. Even if all of the ice on Earth were to suddenly melt, water wouldn’t cover ALL of the continents… [/quote]
At which point [quote]haney responded with:
I would assume you would know that there are marine fossils found on the upper parts of everest? That being said if the land was a little flatter than it is possible for all water in the world to cover the surface by 1.7 miles.
I guess you buy into the idea that mars was once flooded? [/quote]
Now of all the floods in the past, this was the big one in our collective memories. This is the only one that was substantial during a time when the possibility of a civilization existed. It has been common for people to live on the coasts, near water, so a large number of people were living in the worst place at the worst time.
This was a sudden flood. I don’t know how long it took to cause the water to rise 300 feet, but it changed the landscape of the Earth.
If you lived back then, and you lived through such an event, possibly on a boat of some sort, how do you think it would have been perceived? Can you fathom 300 feet? The low lying lands were pushed under water. Way under water.
If you saw that, from your perspective, it would look like the whole Earth was under a flood, and in a way it was.
I believe this is the whole beginning of all the flood stories, including Atlantis, Noah, Gilgamesh, Manu, and countless others. Other things were added in, other events, and other religious beliefs influenced the stories.
We don’t know what people considered the whole Earth at that time. When it says the whole Earth was covered, does it mean completely? I think this could be a vague statement myself. Hebrew is not easy to translate. Words have more then one meaning, and also numerical significance. The fact that they used no vowels does not help either.
I really became interested in this when I found out that there was this big flood about 12-13 thousand years ago, and started thinking of what Plato said, and when he said it. That actually places when he said Atlantis vanished around that time. Maybe the real Noah lived during this time.
The problem is that we have multiple millennia’s of time that has passed since this event, and there are so many myths, and people have so romanticized these events that they bear no connection to reality.
Now as far as if the world was flatter, of course it would be covered with water. If the world was completely flat it would be covered with water, but that is not reality. That 1.7 miles means they had to change things by more than that.
The world has had no ice caps before. This was during the time of the dinosaurs, and they obviously needed a lot of space.
As far as marine fossils, you do know that mountains grow don’t you? They could have been pushed up. Older mountains wear away and shrink. The Earth is constantly changing. Also there have been massive tidal waves. Things that dwarf the tsunami we just saw recently. Waves have left marine life on mountains to die, and become fossils. It depends on what you are talking about.
Back to Noah, and the Bible, and the Torah, you do know there are actually more then one story of Noah. One says he took 2 of all animals, but another says he took clean and unclean animals, and these animals are specifically listed, defined, and limited. It is believed that one person had the two stories, and combined them into one story.
[i]“Intelligent people understand that the goal of the Torah is not to inform us about natural sciences; rather it was given in order to create a straight path for people in the way of righteousness and law, to sustain in their minds the belief in the Unity of God and His Providence…”
Shadal (R. Sh’mu’el David Luzzato, 19th c. Italy)[/i]
Again many people here are fighting all or nothing arguments, when the truth might be in the middle.
Sure all conjecture, but interesting no doubt.
to let us take the reigns, knowing full well what’s going to happen- just so He knows at the end that he’s going to come and pick up the pieces- now that’s REAL love my friend. Peace on your quest as well.