[quote]Billberg wrote:
I put in the correction, it is supposed to be 10 to the 21st power and 10 to the 25th power, it the copy/paste process it did not transfer superscript.
[/quote]
Thanks, it makes alot more sense that way!
[quote]rainjack wrote:
This debate is completely pointless. Celtic shithead evidently hasn’t read the megabytes of debate that has already been posted on this subject, and for some reason thinks he has something ‘new’ to bring to the discussion.
[/quote]
You once again reduce yourself to the level of a preteen. Celtic shithead LMAO
Do you honestly think statements like that do anything for your argument?
[quote]
It boils down to this - either you believe there is a God, or you don’t. Faith is not a quantifiable factor.
Those that don’t believe won’t. There is no need for me to pound you into submission and convert you, or anyone else - So in that respect I totally agree with you. I think you just come down on believers a little too hard. [/quote]
I used to be religious, now I’m not. I’m not because of alot of reading from the same kind of info that has been posted in this discussion. People can change…
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I think you make a huge mistake by correlating education level with intelligence. Why not say wealthy rather than educated? They correlate the same way. The Bible says, “It’s easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to inheret the kingdom of God”.
Maybe that’s your answer. Maybe faith is for the uneducated poor people. Maybe that’s why you never see Jesus hob-knobbing with the pseudo intellectual set. Maybe man just has too high an opinion of himself.
The very same can be said of those sitting on the other side. They’re of the opinion that everything can be explained by science. Nothing ‘just is’ when they know almost nothing about our history, so they make up theories to explain why their can’t be a creator.
[/quote]
(1) because you CAN be born into wealth. you can not be born well educated.
(2) i am betting that scientifically minded people are more open minded than religious people. perhaps a poll? of course, that would involve mathematics and thus more “made up numbers.”
the scientists’ objective is not to disprove religion but rather to explain reality and exploit it for the advancement of human kind. interesting how technological advancements are attributable to science and not religion. unless of course, god arranged those atoms in such an unexplainable way so as to provide you that computer with which you are expressing your opinion.
BFG
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Unless I’ve missed something - every scientific statement regarding the earth’s history is still predicated by “theory of”. The age of the earth is “estimated”.
Who is the arbitor of “rational support”? Neither side can justify anything - one would have to assume too many things to be swayed by either side. Once again, you throw faith out the window because it is not rational.
I think you make a huge mistake by correlating education level with intelligence. Why not say wealthy rather than educated? They correlate the same way. The Bible says, “It’s easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to inheret the kingdom of God”.
Maybe that’s your answer. Maybe faith is for the uneducated poor people. Maybe that’s why you never see Jesus hob-knobbing with the pseudo intellectual set. Maybe man just has too high an opinion of himself.
The very same can be said of those sitting on the other side. They’re of the opinion that everything can be explained by science. Nothing ‘just is’ when they know almost nothing about our history, so they make up theories to explain why their can’t be a creator.
[/quote]
Its great that you decided to join in the discussion and all, although I would respect what you type alot more if you hadn’t already deemed this entire thread pointless, old, and a waste of time. Way to contradict yourself.
That being said, I agree with you that those leaning far to either side are engulfed in narrow-mindedness like a disease, although I would certainly prefer those narrow-minded science oriented individuals as opposed to the religious ones. Christianity prohibits you from incorporating new theories/evidence, simply because the whole religion is supposed to be summed up in the Bible. In Revelation it states whoever changes the words of this book will suffer the worst punishment(or something to that effect, I don’t have a Bible here to quote), yet the Bible has been changed COUNTLESS times by countless people throughout history, even if only while translating from other languages. If Christianity is how Christ said it was, then you cannot incorporate new theories, such as evolution, into your beliefs. Surely Christ, being the son of God(supposedly) and part of the trinity, would KNOW. Why then wouldn’t he have laid out the truth for you Christians while he was here?
Those narrow-minded people leaning toward science however, can easily change and adapt their beliefs to new evidence and findings as they are presented.
The MAIN POINT I want to make with this discussion is that even if evolutionary theory is an unproven hypothesis, it still has physical evidence supporting it. Religion, on the other hand, is left alone in the wilderness with NOTHING but faith pushing it on.
[quote]Billberg wrote:
Srry for this lon post, but I don’t think that many will click the link and go read so I am just gonna put it all here. This all comes from Science and the Bible
Hope that gives you some proof.[/quote]
Those are observations and vague ones at that. Observations do not equate with proof.
Religion had to have some coincidence with science to have persuasive power. It could not contradict relatively easily observable occurrences, or it would not be believable. People are by and large stupid and will believe pretty much anything you tell them.
BFG
[quote]The Mage wrote:
Now I am an atheist, but I see that there is some history to the bible. For example I kind of believe in Noah’s flood.
Now why would I do that? Does anyone know what happened about 12,000 to 13,000 years ago? The waters rose 300 feet. (Damn fossil fuels.) This might just be the original basis of the flood.
I truly believe that the old world was destroyed by a flood. But most people don’t even know the flood is still here. The waters never really went down. (There were 1 or 2 different times when the waters rose within a millennium of this event adding about 100 more feet.)
[/quote]
There have been numerous ‘floods’ throughout the Earth’s history. Moving out of an ice age, with temperatures raising, would involve a ‘flood’. People generally attribute something on that big a scale to cosmic powers(God), as people do for almost everything they can’t explain and don’t understand.
The flood in the Bible, however, was supposed to be sudden, killing ALL THE HUMANS on EARTH except those in the arc. That means the flood would have to be over all of the lands people inhabitted, which means water would cover every single major continent on Earth except Antarctica. That is VERY impossible, I assure you. Even if all of the ice on Earth were to suddenly melt, water wouldn’t cover ALL of the continents…
[quote]XCelticX wrote:
You once again reduce yourself to the level of a preteen. Celtic shithead LMAO
Do you honestly think statements like that do anything for your argument?
[/quote]
I guess you’d be the resident expert on pre-teen mentality, wouldn’t you?
I am making no argument other than this is a pointless debate.
There is a huge, huge difference between being religous and having faith. Just because you ‘were’ religous means dick. Either you believe or you don’t. Going through the motions and playing the religous game is what gives believers a bad name.
[quote]BFG wrote:
(1) because you CAN be born into wealth. you can not be born well educated.[/quote]
I guess then, that you are of the opinion that everyone with a degree is smarter than those without? Do you really want to stand by that? I know more than just a few college graduates that I wouldn’t leave alone with a pair of scissors, much less put on my payroll.
Define open minded. You can’t. Well…you could, but it would be from your view. Polling a subjective topic such as “open-minded” or “faith” is an exercise in futility.
You have the freedom to denegrate those of faith all you want. I’m not trying to stop you from it. I don’t think my refusal to give in to your agruments is a sign of closemindedness, nor do I think that the scientific community is all that openminded when it comes to the history of the earth.
[quote]battlelust wrote:
I have two idiotic questions … Second, why do Christians celebrate on the first day of the week (Sunday) and not on the seventh day of the week (Saturday). Sunday was the Roman day of solar worship. Yahweh rested on Saturday, but on Sunday he was hard at work. GAY![/quote]
Because we are celebrating the resurection of Jesus Christ. Ever heard of Resurection Sunday? A.K.A “Easter” Sunday? Sunday is the “Day of the Lord” to a Christian. From the Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 21:
VII. As it is of the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in his Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which in Scripture is called the Lord’s Day, and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath.
May I suggest you read Romans14:4-7 (NIV)
4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
If you want to be condescending to us, know at least a little bit about us first, it will make your insults actually sting a bit. As it stands now, you just sound like you are talking about something you are ignorant about, which never really looks good on you, IMO.
XCelticX, you might want to try carm.org for apologetics debate with Christians. You seem reasonably well spoken, though I don’t agree with about anything you say, at least you know how to say it.
On the flip-side, talkorigins would also be a good place for you, if you want to further your knowlege with like-minded individuals (though they do have a paper that specifically denies that science must disagree with religion and that it is up to the individual).
Matt
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Define open minded. You can’t. Well…you could, but it would be from your view. Polling a subjective topic such as “open-minded” or “faith” is an exercise in futility.
[/quote]
Well said.
Matt
Why is this shit 3 pages long?
Why does any atheist think they are smarter than someone who believes in God?
Why are some of these people acting as if there wasn’t already a thread on this topic and that not one person in this thread has brought up any new points of view?
Why would someone make a thread for the soul purpose of instigating some inflammatory response from those who believe in God?
What does “used to be religious” mean and how is it someone relates being “religious” to believing in God? It isn’t like the two are the same.
What was the true point of this thread. I don’t see anyone shining through with amazing atheist intellect on this topic so why would any atheist think they are better than anyone else…or more intelligent…or more educated?
A link between education and belief in God? So everyone who believes in God is more likely to be a dumbass and everyone who is an atheist is more likely to be awarded a PhD?
This thread was stupid. Seriously. Whatever provoked someone to start a thread this retarded should have been the same impulse that made that person think, “ya know, I just couldn’t be this dim by chance…perhaps there is a God”.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
BFG wrote:
(1) because you CAN be born into wealth. you can not be born well educated.
I guess then, that you are of the opinion that everyone with a degree is smarter than those without? Do you really want to stand by that? I know more than just a few college graduates that I wouldn’t leave alone with a pair of scissors, much less put on my payroll.
[/quote]
Is that what I said? No. Note that I do not typically use the words always, never, every, and all. You do. True, some very “smart” people have not attended college. Also true, most of the brightest minds around DID.
I don’t think so. It would be possible to pose a series of questions. Of course, the polling population would have to be large enough to be statistically significant. And you have to rely on people being honest.
(1) What better explains human existence?
(a) religion
(b) science
(2) If religion better explains, do you believe scientific explanations to be possible?
(a) yes
(b) no
(3) If science better explains, do you believe religious explanations to be possible?
(a) yes
(b) no
(4) Do you believe in god?
(a) yes
(b) no
(5) Do you believe in the possible existence of a god or higher power?
(a) yes
(b) no
etc.
Some very “smart” people study math and science and could likely create a statistically significant poll. Perfect? Probably not. But they would try and would not simply brush it off as “an exercise in futility.” The open-minded search for possibilities, answers, and explanations rather than the short-sighted denouncement of things as impossible and unexplainable - that is what science is all about.
[quote]
You have the freedom to denegrate those of faith all you want. I’m not trying to stop you from it. I don’t think my refusal to give in to your agruments is a sign of closemindedness, nor do I think that the scientific community is all that openminded when it comes to the history of the earth. [/quote]
I am not denegrating those of faith. My cousin is a priest, and for him I have much respect. Still, thanks for providing me that freedom to do so. I do not expect you to give in - what fun would that be? I find it rather interesting how science fits in with religion quite well only so long as it does not interfere.
So long as we all understand that I am right, everything will be fine.
BFG
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why does any atheist think they are smarter than someone who believes in God?
[/quote]
We got to explain that too? Fuck.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why is this shit 3 pages long?
[/quote]
It’s like a train wreck, Prof. I tried. I really tried to stay away, but it sucks you in.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why is this shit 3 pages long?
Why does any atheist think they are smarter than someone who believes in God?
Whatever provoked someone to start a thread this retarded should have been the same impulse that made that person think, “ya know, I just couldn’t be this dim by chance…perhaps there is a God”.[/quote]
ROFLMMFAO!!!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
A link between education and belief in God? So everyone who believes in God is more likely to be a dumbass and everyone who is an atheist is more likely to be awarded a PhD?
[/quote]
Yeah. EVERYONE who is an atheist receives a PhD after 10 years in the Atheists of America Club. And EVERYONE who believes in god (lower case) is more likely to be a Dumbass (upper case). That is EXACTLY what I meant. I realize it to be completely different from what I typed, but at least you figured it out.
If the thread pisses you off so bad, stay out of it. We were unaware that this was your website.
BFG
[quote]BFG wrote:
So long as we all understand that I am right, everything will be fine.
[/quote]
And therein lies the quandry we find ourselves in. You can’t be right. I am. I always am. I don’t make the rules. I’m just always right.
Before wunderkid gets on here to inform me of how childish I am - look up sarcasm in the dictionary. It’s under ‘S’.
ATTENTION ATHIESTS
I have noticed that the religious threads are usually (not always) begun by those who are non-believers. That goes for the comments on other threads as well.
Some of you guys think it’s cool for you to post, “Jesus is a myth” for no apparent reason. It’s almost become an add on sentence to unrelated topics for certain posters (who shall remain nameless…for now) “Yea I have about as much faith in that coach as I do…um religion…yea because religion sucks and THERE IS NO GOD!” He said smiling maniacally and drooling at the mouth (okay I threw that last sentence in for effect).
I think instead of worrying about all of us nasty Christians attempting to shove our doctrine down the throats of the masses, better we concern ourelves with the “Athiest thumpers.” They seem determined to convince us there is no God. They are insistent, belligerent and quite determined to bring the topic up every chance they get. Hey, why don’t you guys dress up in shirts and ties and go door to door carrying little athiest books…kiddding…(smile).
I for one want to make a public declaration: I know that there are many fine citizens of our country (world…oh and T-Nation) who do not believe in God. I accept this as a fact of life, it’s okay. Therefore, I don’t need to hear them either denounce Jesus Christ, or compare God to santa clause every chance they get-this is intolerant!
In fact, it is no less intolerant than someone either making fun of, a Gay person. Both are intolerant and should be avoided if you have one ounce of dignity.
Dignity…hmmm that’s another thread.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
BFG -
There is no such thing as ‘fact-based science’ when it comes to the earth’s history. It’s all theory. All of it.
You can dress it up with impertinent facts. You can create a theory, never prove it and believe it as thruth.[/quote]
For the record, many theories can’t be proven, only disproven. Hence, you can never truly call them anything other than theories. Just because it’s a theory, doesn’t mean it’s not right. We all believe in the theory of gravity. I do, at least.
[quote]BFG wrote:
(2) i am betting that scientifically minded people are more open minded than religious people. perhaps a poll? of course, that would involve mathematics and thus more “made up numbers.”
BFG[/quote]
Scientists are open-minded like liberals are. As in not any more than the religious and conservatives. They are only open-minded in respect to the views of the religious/conservatives, as in scientists/liberals are receptive to the views not held by the religious/conservatives.