Honestly it’s probably just fluctuation causing the pain at this point. I finally feel like myself again… i work out of town and my wife can tell a difference just in my attitude over the phone… that shit is absolute poison. Crazy thing, i used to run heavy cycles back in the day and i took less arimidex then than the doctor said i needed now… and felt great. GET OFF THE SHIT!
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I have seen you guys saying hcg is damaging.
How tf then one can keep himself fertile on trt? I have tried nolvadex 10mg ED with trt but it never worked , never raised LH or FSH.
Trt doesn’t reliable induce azoospermia, however when it does… then it does.
Use/reserve HCG for when trying to conceive, in which case inj FSH may be more suited
Regarding testicular aesthetics… that’s all it is, aesthetics. I don’t think a girl will particularly notice a 30% reduction in testicular volume… well perhaps in the teenage demographic
I am just 20 year old and on trt and I want to make sure that by the time I am married like in coming 10 years my balls work lol. I have read many studies claiming hcg preserves fertility and its a risk not using anything with trt for such a long time and expect everything to work when trying to concieve.
I read somewhere that you are young too. Whats your protocol?
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My protocol is abuse of anabolic steroids…
Nah it’s theorerically 150mg/wk (gets me to like 650-700) but I use more and cycle on/off other compounds at minor league dosages
Rodent models and anecdotes appear to indicate chronic exposure to HCG causes leading cell down regulation and potentially permenant damage (apoptopic mechanisms) in various studies. I’m on a train now, so can’t talk but I can link some literature later on.
I don’t believe nolvadex/clomiphene is optimal for preserving fertility on androgens, I think trying to stimulate LH/FSH whilst exogenously suppressing those variables with exogenous androgen is like pissing in the wind
The rodents study you are referring to were done with 100 IU per day, that’s about 15000 to 25000 IU of hCG for a human.
hCG doesnt lead to testicular failure if used properly, actually it prevents it from happening if used properly, ie something like 3x 200 IU per week in addition to T.
Make sure to read this study below
Essentially the longer you use T alone the higher the probability get that you are running into serious fertility problems.
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In EVERY study when TRT is given to obese men as well as men with type 2 diabetes they improve. Not sure what “suffer” means as these men didn’t suffer but instead lost weight…and without the use of an AI. In every single study done with testosterone since it was discovered showing benefit in men they didn’t control or block estrogen.
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No this isn’t the literature I was referring to. I’m not uneducated to the point where I’d link a study in which HED’s far above the norm of use was implemented
At family meal atm though
Thats true with regards to glucose control however it’s unfortunately not true for cardiovascular events.
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Before you post a study at least know the study. The TOM trial was not powered to evaluate cardiac events. This study is meaningless for why you posted it. Hell…just google TOM trial and its critique
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Testosterone has never caused a heart attack, stroke, or DVT in ANY randomized control trial to date and that is in over 80 years of study. The TOM trial was not designed to evaluate for major adverse cardiac events but you should learn and know a study as well as its limitations and flaws before you post them. Next you will be posting the Vigen and the Finkle studies…
Actually none of the TRT studies published to date were designed (prospective placebo controlled) or adequately powered to assess CV events. Neither the study i posted above nor any other study that demonstrated a protective effect. But we tent to ignore those which dont fit to our beliefs.
The cardiovascular safety of this therapy remains largely unclear until the results of a long term (>10 years) prospective, placebo controlled trial which is adequately powered are available.
In my personal opinion the benefits of TRT by far outweighs any (potential) risks and thats why i am on it. But thats a personal decision.
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You are completely wrong in that that there are no studies showing the cardio
protective effects of testosterone or that there are no long term studies.
You have not spent much time researching the literature.
Then please link an adequately powered long term prospective randomized and placebo controled study that was designed to demonstrate the cardioprotective action of TRT.
Is there any evidence for testosterone in TRT doses causing structural changes in the heart?
I’ve seen such study for abusing testosterone with blood levels of 5000ng/dl that of course we cannot extrapolate to physiological doses, but some people claim that for TRT. My brother had a co-student who had very high natural testosterone levels and at age of 22 one part of his heat has grown bigger. The doctors of course associated that…
The left ventricle… no one has a TT of 5000 naturally
It’s primarily linked to meta analysis and rodent models tbh
Can you please read my post again?
Chances are the doctors wished to associate you’re friends (probably congenital) heart defect with whatever they could possibly sssociate it with
By neither of us were there at the time, so we can only speculate