That’s pretty big of you brother. Don’t beat yourself up too hard. The typed words we read here come off way wrong, way too often. Someone typing succinctly sometimes comes off as arrogant. Someone typing quickly sometimes comes off as that person being a dick. We are all guilty of it from time to time.
I will guarantee you that a lot of people on here read me as an arrogant smart ass that thinks he knows it all from time to time. If they ever met me in person they would be blown away by that perception. I’m a very fun loving guy who loves to laugh and joke around, and I KNOW that I’m a dumbass in a lot of areas! I care for people and want to see others do as well as they can. I very rarely ever hold a grudge. My down fall? I’m a perfectionist. Lol. I try to correct all of my grammar and spelling errors. I like to be very detailed. That comes from the fact that I’m a programmer and I type code all day long. One comma…one semi colon out of place can completely screw the outcome. I’m NOT perfect by any means, and I get it wrong a lot, but I try.
I’ll bet if you ever met @alldayeveryday you would probably be blown away by how great of a guy he really is. His typed word comes off strong sometimes and that can misconstrued as him being a dick. He may even be trying to be a dick sometimes, but I would bet money that he’s not. I could be wrong. I don’t know but I will say this. We all have to realize that this is, as @alldayeveryday said, an open forum and all topics are open to everybody for discussion. There’s a lot of differing views, and a lot of differing personalities. It’s all cool and don’t invest any personal emotion into this bro. Secondly, try not to ever think that you know a person by what / how they type.
If ANY of us were truly honest, we’d have to admit that, at best, we are all just students to this TRT thing and are learning more every day!!
I am in agreement with you, and the literature backs this up as far as testosterone levels. One could make an argument for injecting every six days to avoid a slightly low trough level ( strangely enough the authors left day 6 off the graph). As far as E 2 levels being lower on more frequent injections, I have yet to see any real documented evidence that this is the case.
For the record, I am a double boarded subspecialty fellowship trained anesthesiologist. We have a great saying in anesthesiology: " The enemy of good is better". I don’t consider myself in anyway an expert on TRT, but I think if many of people on here adopted this philosophy, and listened to your advice, it would serve them well. Unfortunately even with all of my training I fell into the same trap.
This is a question, and not a point of argument, so please try and read between the lines here…
I can’t quite get my mind completely around this to the point of agreement. Consider this example…
A TRT patient on 150mg per week injecting once weekly. He injects on Monday. Given the half life of Test Cyp of 8 days (7-9, but 8 for average), he has 75-85mg of this injection left in his system by the time of the next weekly injection on Monday right? So he injects another 150mg which peaks in around 48 hours (wednesday) leaving 60-70mg from last injection plus the 150mg he just injected. Now there is 220mg of exogenous Test in his system. At the next injection, there is ~35mg left from the first injection, ~75mg from the second. On an on and on until there is a steady state of maximum concentration, which will drop to ~half of that maximum just before each subsequent injection.
Now take the same guy and have him inject 3X a week at 50mg per injection. M-W-F. Monday he injects 50mg. This peaks by Wednesday, when he injects another 50mg. By the time this second injection peaks on Friday, the first injection only has 60-65% of its concentration remaining (~30mg), and the second injection is peaking (50mg). That’s 80mg that will fall to ~50mg by the time this Friday injection peaks on Sunday, Which is 50mg (Friday’s injection) plus the 50mg remaining totaling 100mg of test concentration.
Now given these scenarios, both will eventually stabilize at the same maximum concentration, but it just seems to me that the more frequent schedule allows for that maximum serum concentration to be reached at a much slower rate of climb, along with much shorter trough times, than the once a week protocol. Wouldn’t it more stable for E2 conversion at this slower steady rate of climb than it would be on the more wildly fluctuating concentrations of the weekly protocol? Also, wouldn’t the protocol that allows for less fluctuations have a more stable improvement impact from the perspective of the patient?
It just seems like it would to me, approaching it from a simple mathematical angle, but my limited hormone knowledge may be holding me back from seeing a bigger picture here. If I’m wrong in my assessment, please…don’t just say “you’re wrong”. I don’t mind being wrong at all mind you, but if I am, teach me how to be right.
So… What’s the biggest you’ve ever been? Size wise
Aren’t you still relatively young? From what I recall (although I could be getting individuals confused), you’re only in you’re mid 30s
Have you ever used methyltestosterone, methyldihydrotestosterone, methandriol or stenbolone? I’m thinking of drugs I very rarely hear about people taking
I came to the same conclusion. I found a couple articles and studies that did the same. They had a study where they blood tested daily for 8 days. This was for every day injections and another that was on weekly .they found more stable serum and much larger fluctuations.
If I take a shot once a week; there’s a reason they tell me to be aware my levels peak two days after the shot and decline 6 days later. Everyone says this and that’s also why docs prescribe anastrazole the days after a once weekly shot. Because that’s when ur body is absorbing the most amount of T.
It stilll hurts my brain because I thought the body only takes a small percentage of your value and not a specific amount. Does the body absorb 10mg out of 20 and 10mg out of 100. Probably not . Forgive me thinking out loud.
This means 100mg would have a higher percentage the first couple days and . 7% would be 7mg day 1, then maybe 5 day 2 and etc… with every day dosing you would get the same amount every day. Even when you stabalize you are still topping the tank off and it’s always going to have a larger decline end of week than a stabalized every day protocol.
Hope that makes sense: because I can’t seem to realize it any other way.
Maybe a EOD is jsut as good as a ED and a twice weekly is pretty close as well
Do the benefits of trt (increased sex drive/arousal, mental clarity, energy etx) all occur around the same test/e2 levels?
Or do some benefits occur at one level and others at another?
Ex: I can get to a level where I feel mental clarity but not energy or sex drive. Should the “benefits” of trt show themselves around ones certain sweet spot? Or do some happen at one test level and others at another?
This is very accurate. I think back to when I was competing in weightlifting and training with a group of guys competing as well. We all used AAS and all pretty much the same cycles. Some of the smaller guys didn’t take as much as the heavier guys, but they reasoned their lighter bodyweight meant they didn’t need as much. However, in terms of mg per kg bodyweight, they were taking more.
In spite of very similar drug protocols there was a vast difference in results, in terms of weight gain, size and appearance, as well as the most important result, strength. It would stand to reason that something similar would apply to TRT and testosterone levels, both total and free.
My quest with TRT was to find sex drive and arousal, which has been missing with me since early 20s. Low T was the smoking gun that I thought would cure it.
I can get good strength/size gains in the gym at higher doses less frequently (obviously), but mental clarity only comes with lower doses frequently. Sex drive hasn’t been discovered yet.
Part of me says I need high doses of T to feel it… then part of me thinks maybe my e2 just needs to be low to correlate with my lowish shbg.
My shbg was 16 before trt. Rose to 20 after trt. I’ve never experienced issues like system lord. Obviously high shbg is an issue for me but “lowish” almost seems ideal. My workout partner has really high shbg. I think close to 60. Takes 230 mg per week and is still miserable.
Have you ever received an injury to the head when you were younger? I’m asking because libido is a very high percentage in your mind. Their have been case studies that probe the minds of certain personality types, like serial killers and sexual predators (NO…I am NOT implying this is you!!!).
The parallel here, is that some of these guys killed for sexual satisfaction. They couldn’t get aroused via traditional means of the thought of sex, or just a beautiful woman in general, so they found release in more aggressive and deadly acts. The point is, the thing that they found in common with a lot of these guys is damage, or some slight deformity in the frontal lobe of the brain.
Hence my first question. Is it possible that some previous injury could be playing a part in your absent desire, and that hormonal imbalance really has not a lot to do with it?
Jesus christ. The first three weeks were ridiculous. It was to much libido and arousal. After that little honeymoon period I was happy it fell off a bit. Still healthy. Still strong libido just not getting a stiffy if a girl smiled at me in the grocery store.
Do you guys track your diets? I am not sure how much diet effects test and other hormones but I know it does. When I was tested with a result of 15 I was on an 1800 cal a day diet. When I started hcg I also started “bulking”. My next test was 39. We dropped my dosage this week but I am also starting to count cals again (2500) which means I am changing two variables.
My point is, maybe to really key in on your blood test results try maintaining a diet that is relatively the same until your locked in on your dosage?
That’s good to hear. The point still stands though that libido is, in a very large portion, in the mind. I think you are possibly chasing a ghost and putting unnecessary fatigue and stress on your body by continuously switching up your TRT protocols.
It may be time to stabilize that to where you feel the best overall, and then look down a few other roads as to why the libido is defunct.
