Florida Considering AZ Immigration Law

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Isn’t it up to the state to decide if it’s effective or taking away from other duties of officers? Right now in AZ ILLEGALS are the #1 issue, so that arguement, while possibly valid, is not going to fly…until they SEE it work or fail.
[/quote]

Assuming the federal government doesn’t step up and do something (and that’s not a big assumption) I wonder how long it will be 'till both LEOs in Arizona, and then some of the population in Arizona starts having a change in heart about this, when they find their LEOs so over-burdened and preoccupied with boarder enforcement that other aspects of law enforcement start to suffer.

If the situation is really as bad in Arizona as it appears to be, LEOs will be wasting a ton of time booking and transporting illegals.[/quote]

Wrong.

The Feds are not going to step up, because Obama is too much of a pussy. But what Obama doesn’t realize is, if he plays his cards right, he can make everyone happy. Follow me here.

First off, seal the border effectively with military, fences, and technology. Deport all criminal illegals, arrest employers who hire illegals, every single jail enact 287g, you basically make it a living nightmare to be illegal in this country. Undo birthright citizenship. Once that has been implemented, maybe then Obama could consider some kind of pathway to citizenship bullshit. And quite honestly, I think many people on both sides of the aisle would be more open to it, but ONLY if the border is truly secure, and I am talking Black Hawk choppers, soldiers, tanks, dragons, all on the border.

So you know, AZ spent 2.7 Billion on illegals last year, California spent 13 Billion, it’s unreal how much they cost, the best thing is to not let them in here. I would be willing to bet that crime in AZ will drop by 25% if not more should the law stay. Arizona already had 100k illegals leave, and the law has not even been enacted yet. That is what you call deterence. They already solved 20% of their problem, with nothing more than the stroke of a pen. That is effectiveness for your ass !

42

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Isn’t it up to the state to decide if it’s effective or taking away from other duties of officers? Right now in AZ ILLEGALS are the #1 issue, so that arguement, while possibly valid, is not going to fly…until they SEE it work or fail.
[/quote]

Assuming the federal government doesn’t step up and do something (and that’s not a big assumption) I wonder how long it will be 'till both LEOs in Arizona, and then some of the population in Arizona starts having a change in heart about this, when they find their LEOs so over-burdened and preoccupied with boarder enforcement that other aspects of law enforcement start to suffer.

If the situation is really as bad in Arizona as it appears to be, LEOs will be wasting a ton of time booking and transporting illegals.[/quote]

Why would law enforcement be “wasting a ton of time booking and transporting” criminals? Isn’t that what law enforcement is all about?[/quote]

Non-violent criminals. New Mexico went the other way (bad idea) and gives driver’s licenses to illegals.

Your from a rural area, right? I’m sure you know those towns that only have a handful of LEOs, maybe one or two at the office, and then two-three patrol cars out at a time. Two patrol cars having to deal with every illegal they pull over leaves one cop patrolling around/being on call.

I grew up in a town of under 2,000. Other than weekend nights, when we’d maybe have five cars out, or two at a DWI checkpoint and the others patrolling, there were only ever three cars (one officer each) out at a time (I know this because growing up my Mom was the village prosecutor). A town like that, and there’s a lot of them, really can’t afford to have 2/3-3/4 of their operating force at any given time tied up dealing with illegals.

That’s my devil’s advocate argument.

44

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

Non-violent criminals…[/quote]

Yeah, non-violent criminals. Sure.[/quote]

The fact is most of them are, or we’d be having literally thousands of violent crimes a day in the boarder states. We have them, but not that many.

Do you have a response to rest of my Devil’s Advocate post?

45

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Isn’t it up to the state to decide if it’s effective or taking away from other duties of officers? Right now in AZ ILLEGALS are the #1 issue, so that arguement, while possibly valid, is not going to fly…until they SEE it work or fail.
[/quote]

Assuming the federal government doesn’t step up and do something (and that’s not a big assumption) I wonder how long it will be 'till both LEOs in Arizona, and then some of the population in Arizona starts having a change in heart about this, when they find their LEOs so over-burdened and preoccupied with boarder enforcement that other aspects of law enforcement start to suffer.

If the situation is really as bad in Arizona as it appears to be, LEOs will be wasting a ton of time booking and transporting illegals.[/quote]

Why would law enforcement be “wasting a ton of time booking and transporting” criminals? Isn’t that what law enforcement is all about?[/quote]

Non-violent criminals. New Mexico went the other way (bad idea) and gives driver’s licenses to illegals.

Your from a rural area, right? I’m sure you know those towns that only have a handful of LEOs, maybe one or two at the office, and then two-three patrol cars out at a time. Two patrol cars having to deal with every illegal they pull over leaves one cop patrolling around/being on call.

I grew up in a town of under 2,000. Other than weekend nights, when we’d maybe have five cars out, or two at a DWI checkpoint and the others patrolling, there were only ever three cars (one officer each) out at a time (I know this because growing up my Mom was the village prosecutor). A town like that, and there’s a lot of them, really can’t afford to have 2/3-3/4 of their operating force at any given time tied up dealing with illegals.

That’s my devil’s advocate argument.[/quote]

You are basing your argument from growing up in a town of 2000 people? I had 2000 people IN MY HIGH SCHOOL. How are you relating the problem of massive illegal alien invasion to your small town mentality? Up to 1000 illegals try to cross into Arizona PER DAY, do you think your experience in such a small town is realistic for Arizona?

46

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

Non-violent criminals…[/quote]

Yeah, non-violent criminals. Sure.[/quote]

The fact is most of them are, or we’d be having literally thousands of violent crimes a day in the boarder states. We have them, but not that many.

Do you have a response to rest of my Devil’s Advocate post?[/quote]

You’re devil’s advocate post is not realistic for Arizona, perhaps you should visit a major metropolitan city and see how the real world works.

48

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

Non-violent criminals…[/quote]

Yeah, non-violent criminals. Sure.[/quote]

The fact is most of them are, or we’d be having literally thousands of violent crimes a day in the boarder states. We have them, but not that many.[/quote]

Apparently you don’t live anywhere near the American Southwest nor have you followed the news of there from afar.

“Not that many,” huh? You’re a piece of work, Spart.[quote]

Do you have a response to rest of my Devil’s Advocate post?[/quote]

Why bother? You’re demonstrating a lack of grasp on this subject from the get-go and yet I’m supposed to engage you in depth?

You think AZ and CA’s prison population statistics regarding illegals and violent crime are made up?
[/quote]
Washington state released theirs yesterday too. Don’t quote me, but like 30% or something if I remember right.

49

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

I HIGHLY suggest you pay more attention to this issue, seeing that the Arizona Law is a watered down version of the current Federal Immigration Law, which has been both upheld by the Supreme Court and approved by Congress.

We have laws against rape too, and 99.9% of rapes are from men, does that mean that those laws encourage gender profiling?

[/quote]

I disagree that it’s a watered down version of the federal law. The biggest thing it does is tell state and local LEOs to enforce the federal laws on the books. I don’t see constitutional problems with this: it’s not states setting immigration , it’s states enforcing existing Federal policy.

But there is a real argument that to be made (playing Devil’s advocate: I don’t really agree with the argument I’m about to make) that tasking local LEOs with dealing with illegals is an unfair extra burden to place on them, and will occupy time that could be more effectively spent stopping violent crime. Think about it, if even just one in every ten traffic stops on AZ results in the LEO having to sit around, and call in the Feds, or bring someone into custody, that’s a lot of time taken up by this.

What does rape have to do with anything I’m saying or have said? I didn’t mention racial profiling at all in any of my posts. But the fact that you went right there, I think speaks to why this is going to be such a tough fight: it’s really about race/ethnicity for MOST of the people on BOTH sides, which is unfortunate.[/quote]

It is a watered down version because the Federal law says enforcement doesnt have to have a reason to ask for ID.

You never know what an illegal will do. We are finding all kind of crimes being committed by them. If we take the illegals away we are stopping violent crime.

50

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I wish Rick Perry would get on board here in Texas. He keeps saying it is a Federal Issue.[/quote]

Man Ive been thinking the exact same thing. You would expect our state gov would take care of this problem. I mean hell Texas almost has it as bad as California. I expected more from Perry but Im not suprised with the percentage of people who probably support immigration here.

51

[quote]Bigpull wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

I HIGHLY suggest you pay more attention to this issue, seeing that the Arizona Law is a watered down version of the current Federal Immigration Law, which has been both upheld by the Supreme Court and approved by Congress.

We have laws against rape too, and 99.9% of rapes are from men, does that mean that those laws encourage gender profiling?

[/quote]

I disagree that it’s a watered down version of the federal law. The biggest thing it does is tell state and local LEOs to enforce the federal laws on the books. I don’t see constitutional problems with this: it’s not states setting immigration , it’s states enforcing existing Federal policy.

But there is a real argument that to be made (playing Devil’s advocate: I don’t really agree with the argument I’m about to make) that tasking local LEOs with dealing with illegals is an unfair extra burden to place on them, and will occupy time that could be more effectively spent stopping violent crime. Think about it, if even just one in every ten traffic stops on AZ results in the LEO having to sit around, and call in the Feds, or bring someone into custody, that’s a lot of time taken up by this.

What does rape have to do with anything I’m saying or have said? I didn’t mention racial profiling at all in any of my posts. But the fact that you went right there, I think speaks to why this is going to be such a tough fight: it’s really about race/ethnicity for MOST of the people on BOTH sides, which is unfortunate.[/quote]

It is a watered down version because the Federal law says enforcement doesnt have to have a reason to ask for ID.

You never know what an illegal will do. We are finding all kind of crimes being committed by them. If we take the illegals away we are stopping violent crime.
[/quote]

Correct, the Federal Immigration laws require no probable cause or reasonable suspicion, but apparently the left wing nut bags seems to be ok with that versus the AZ law.

Wait til one of you has your SSN taken, I had my ID stolen in 2006. I caught it quick and was able to undo the damage, but wait til one of these fuckers takes out a loan, and its YOUR ass on the line.