Florida Considering AZ Immigration Law

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

On the news they said that almost 70% of the people are supporting the law, but the politicians said that the people don’t understand the ramifications of the law.

[/quote]

Which news? And what poll?

I’d have to totally disagree with that (not the law itself).

I think when you combine the people who are happy that NO ONE is enforcing immigration policy (the universal amnesty people) with the people who would rather not see the states (and their LEOs) getting involved with what should be a federal issue/duty, I bet you have less than half the population supporting the law (by a long shot).

I’d be willing to give you that probably another 10-20% would support the law if they actually read it/understood it, but the immigration debate has gone the way of defense, abortion and the gun-rights: it’s entered irrational land, where neither side is willing to have a real debate on the issue, and everyone talks past eachother.

I think it’s unfortunate, because unlike, say abortion, which brings a bunch of difficult issues together (individual freedom, the meaning of “human” and “life”, right to privacy, exe.) this issue ought to be much simpler:

We have laws. Laws must be obeyed. If you don’t like the laws, elect people who agree with you and get them changed. This Arizona law ONLY deals with enforcement, which should avoid the issue entirely.

But it doesn’t, because it’s been made into a cultural issue. And both sides feed into it. [/quote]

Here you go

And my local news just said polls show that almost 73% agree with the law. They didn’t state where they got those figures.

I agree with you about it should be much simpler but the emotional aspect seems to drive both side of the sensationalists.

22

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

On the news they said that almost 70% of the people are supporting the law, but the politicians said that the people don’t understand the ramifications of the law.

[/quote]

Which news? And what poll?

I’d have to totally disagree with that (not the law itself).

I think when you combine the people who are happy that NO ONE is enforcing immigration policy (the universal amnesty people) with the people who would rather not see the states (and their LEOs) getting involved with what should be a federal issue/duty, I bet you have less than half the population supporting the law (by a long shot).

I’d be willing to give you that probably another 10-20% would support the law if they actually read it/understood it, but the immigration debate has gone the way of defense, abortion and the gun-rights: it’s entered irrational land, where neither side is willing to have a real debate on the issue, and everyone talks past eachother.

I think it’s unfortunate, because unlike, say abortion, which brings a bunch of difficult issues together (individual freedom, the meaning of “human” and “life”, right to privacy, exe.) this issue ought to be much simpler:

We have laws. Laws must be obeyed. If you don’t like the laws, elect people who agree with you and get them changed. This Arizona law ONLY deals with enforcement, which should avoid the issue entirely.

But it doesn’t, because it’s been made into a cultural issue. And both sides feed into it. [/quote]

I HIGHLY suggest you pay more attention to this issue, seeing that the Arizona Law is a watered down version of the current Federal Immigration Law, which has been both upheld by the Supreme Court and approved by Congress.

We have laws against rape too, and 99.9% of rapes are from men, does that mean that those laws encourage gender profiling?

23

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I wish Rick Perry would get on board here in Texas. He keeps saying it is a Federal Issue.[/quote]

lol obviously. Texas should be renamed Texico.

24

Ohio, yes Ohio is pushing hard too. There were just a couple of state officials on FOX saying they have a stream of criminals coming straight from the border states and into their cities engaging in gang violence and drug trafficking and their polls show an overwhelming majority favoring an Az. style law there too.

25

[quote]thefederalist wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I wish Rick Perry would get on board here in Texas. He keeps saying it is a Federal Issue.[/quote]

lol obviously. Texas should be renamed Texico.[/quote]
’

Dude… .seriously change your avatar cuz those look like my boobs.

My Grandpa was from Agatite, Texas and he would have been horrified with what is going on.

26

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Ohio, yes Ohio is pushing hard too. There were just a couple of state officials on FOX saying they have a stream of criminals coming straight from the border states and into their cities engaging in gang violence and drug trafficking and their polls show an overwhelming majority favoring an Az. style law there too.[/quote]

Isn’t that just nuts? Ohio isn’t even a border state and yet it feels the brunt of illegal aliens and their criminal enterprise.

27

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Dude… .seriously change your avatar cuz those look like my boobs.

[/quote]

You know the rules. We need pics or it is not true.

28

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Dude… .seriously change your avatar cuz those look like my boobs.

[/quote]

You know the rules. We need pics or it is not true.[/quote]

Where have you been? They are out there, you just have not looked in the right place Daniel-son.

29

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

I HIGHLY suggest you pay more attention to this issue, seeing that the Arizona Law is a watered down version of the current Federal Immigration Law, which has been both upheld by the Supreme Court and approved by Congress.

We have laws against rape too, and 99.9% of rapes are from men, does that mean that those laws encourage gender profiling?

[/quote]

I disagree that it’s a watered down version of the federal law. The biggest thing it does is tell state and local LEOs to enforce the federal laws on the books. I don’t see constitutional problems with this: it’s not states setting immigration , it’s states enforcing existing Federal policy.

But there is a real argument that to be made (playing Devil’s advocate: I don’t really agree with the argument I’m about to make) that tasking local LEOs with dealing with illegals is an unfair extra burden to place on them, and will occupy time that could be more effectively spent stopping violent crime. Think about it, if even just one in every ten traffic stops on AZ results in the LEO having to sit around, and call in the Feds, or bring someone into custody, that’s a lot of time taken up by this.

What does rape have to do with anything I’m saying or have said? I didn’t mention racial profiling at all in any of my posts. But the fact that you went right there, I think speaks to why this is going to be such a tough fight: it’s really about race/ethnicity for MOST of the people on BOTH sides, which is unfortunate.

30

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
that tasking local LEOs with dealing with illegals is an unfair extra burden to place on them, and will occupy time that could be more effectively spent stopping violent crime. Think about it, if even just one in every ten traffic stops on AZ results in the LEO having to sit around, and call in the Feds, or bring someone into custody, that’s a lot of time taken up by this.

What does rape have to do with anything I’m saying or have said? I didn’t mention racial profiling at all in any of my posts. But the fact that you went right there, I think speaks to why this is going to be such a tough fight: it’s really about race/ethnicity for MOST of the people on BOTH sides, which is unfortunate.[/quote]

Isn’t it up to the state to decide if it’s effective or taking away from other duties of officers? Right now in AZ ILLEGALS are the #1 issue, so that arguement, while possibly valid, is not going to fly…until they SEE it work or fail.

31

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
If VA does this as well, northern VA will be a ghost town - lol (OK OK, it was an exaggeration!)[/quote]

Not really an exaggeration. When they pulled that shit in Prince William County a year or two ago, many illegal immigrants just got up an left their homes. It SIGNIFICANTLY contributed to the number of foreclosures in the area causing the area to be declared a “declining market” and and now people’s (citizen’s) home values are paying for it. No one can refinance or sell without bringing money to the table. It’s created a HUGE problem for a lot of people here.

Beware of the unforeseen consequences of short-sighted thinking and the reactionary legislation that follows it.

32

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Isn’t it up to the state to decide if it’s effective or taking away from other duties of officers? Right now in AZ ILLEGALS are the #1 issue, so that arguement, while possibly valid, is not going to fly…until they SEE it work or fail.
[/quote]

Assuming the federal government doesn’t step up and do something (and that’s not a big assumption) I wonder how long it will be 'till both LEOs in Arizona, and then some of the population in Arizona starts having a change in heart about this, when they find their LEOs so over-burdened and preoccupied with boarder enforcement that other aspects of law enforcement start to suffer.

If the situation is really as bad in Arizona as it appears to be, LEOs will be wasting a ton of time booking and transporting illegals.

33

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Dude… .seriously change your avatar cuz those look like my boobs.

[/quote]

You know the rules. We need pics or it is not true.[/quote]

Where have you been? They are out there, you just have not looked in the right place Daniel-son.
[/quote]

I guess I spend too much time in PWI.

35

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Ohio, yes Ohio is pushing hard too. There were just a couple of state officials on FOX saying they have a stream of criminals coming straight from the border states and into their cities engaging in gang violence and drug trafficking and their polls show an overwhelming majority favoring an Az. style law there too.[/quote]

Isn’t that just nuts? Ohio isn’t even a border state and yet it feels the brunt of illegal aliens and their criminal enterprise.

[/quote]
I guarantee you they aren’t the only central state feeling it either.

36

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Ohio, yes Ohio is pushing hard too. There were just a couple of state officials on FOX saying they have a stream of criminals coming straight from the border states and into their cities engaging in gang violence and drug trafficking and their polls show an overwhelming majority favoring an Az. style law there too.[/quote]

Isn’t that just nuts? Ohio isn’t even a border state and yet it feels the brunt of illegal aliens and their criminal enterprise.

[/quote]
I guarantee you they aren’t the only central state feeling it either.[/quote]

If Vander Plaats win(he is getting tea party support tomorrow) you will see this law go up in Iowa.

37

Coming soon to Nebraska…

http://new.khastv.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=21136&storytopic=4

39

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
If VA does this as well, northern VA will be a ghost town - lol (OK OK, it was an exaggeration!)[/quote]

Not really an exaggeration. When they pulled that shit in Prince William County a year or two ago, many illegal immigrants just got up an left their homes. It SIGNIFICANTLY contributed to the number of foreclosures in the area causing the area to be declared a “declining market” and and now people’s (citizen’s) home values are paying for it. No one can refinance or sell without bringing money to the table. It’s created a HUGE problem for a lot of people here.

Beware of the unforeseen consequences of short-sighted thinking and the reactionary legislation that follows it.[/quote]

Angry Chicken the border states have been contemplating this problem daily for years. This isn’t a kneejerk reaction.

Our country will not fail without illegal aliens.

Our country has a system to allow for MASSIVE legal immigration that happens every day, every year.

There may be some struggles but that is okay, changes are hardly ever smooth, but I sure look forward to having a safer city. I live 20 minutes from Tijuana. We call Chula Vista, “Chulajuana” because of the border culture.

I hope this legislation brings some change.

San Diego needs help, we are being bled dry and invaded by an occupying enemy force.

40

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
If VA does this as well, northern VA will be a ghost town - lol (OK OK, it was an exaggeration!)[/quote]

Not really an exaggeration. When they pulled that shit in Prince William County a year or two ago, many illegal immigrants just got up an left their homes. It SIGNIFICANTLY contributed to the number of foreclosures in the area causing the area to be declared a “declining market” and and now people’s (citizen’s) home values are paying for it. No one can refinance or sell without bringing money to the table. It’s created a HUGE problem for a lot of people here.

Beware of the unforeseen consequences of short-sighted thinking and the reactionary legislation that follows it.[/quote]

Angry Chicken the border states have been contemplating this problem daily for years. This isn’t a kneejerk reaction.

Our country will not fail without illegal aliens.

Our country has a system to allow for MASSIVE legal immigration that happens every day, every year.

There may be some struggles but that is okay, changes are hardly ever smooth, but I sure look forward to having a safer city. I live 20 minutes from Tijuana. We call Chula Vista, “Chulajuana” because of the border culture.

I hope this legislation brings some change.

San Diego needs help, we are being bled dry and invaded by an occupying enemy force.

[/quote]

Bled dry to the tune of 10’s of Billions of dollars anually across the nation.