Fixing my Diet

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

I’m trying to get my diet into check, but I’m coming from a place few can relate to.

Many new trainers already eat 2-3 meals a day, and then decide to do GOMAD on top of it. (GOMAD = gallon of milk a day.)

I’m the opposite. I’ve actually been living almost exclusively off of whole milk for several months. If I’m eating dinner with my girlfriend, out at the pool hall, or having lunch with coworkers I’ll have solid food, but the rest of the time it’s been milk. (And vitamins.)

So, about a month ago… I decided to finally do something about being so skinny (5’11, 147; 138 at the time). I added calories to my diet, and I started doing a 20rep squat program. I spent time reading several forums. T-Nation seems to be the most serious/genuine/legit forum, so I ended up here.

Apparently though, my improved diet, the one that I’m gaining weight and strength on, is considered horrible. Even though I’m getting results.

So, I’m trying to understand what’s wrong with it.

I was drinking only whole milk (a gallon+ a day). I didn’t have enough calories to be gaining, so I started adding other stuff in: a milkshake here and there, food at the pool hall, sub sandwiches from Subway/Quizno’s/Jimmy Johns. Of the stuff I’ve added, the emphasis has been on foods that have a relatively high protein content (compared to other stuff on the menu).

I thought I was making decent choices based on where I was and trying to add mass.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
My understanding is that I need 1) sufficient protein (min 1 g/lb bw); 2) sufficient calories; 3) sufficient vitamins/minerals/micronutrients; 4) keeping the body out of a catabolic state as much as possible[/quote]
You need ample protein from quality sources, a surplus of calories from all macros, and sufficient, progressive training stimulus. You’re batting one for three on these, at best.[/quote]

I thought whole milk was considered an excellent protein source, especially considering most protein powders are literally derived from milk. I’m getting 128g of protein per gallon, and then adding additional protein with the sandwiches, milkshakes, etc. I know I’m getting a caloric surplus because I’m gaining weight. And afaik, the 20rep squat program I’m doing is providing sufficient progressive training stimulus.

Since I noticed some fat gain, I dialed back the calories just a little bit. I was concerned I went overboard on calories, and CT’s articles cautioned against taking in more calories than what was needed to gain muscle.

In the “Cure for Skinny” article, referring to whether nutrition or training was more important, Joe DeFranco said:

[quote]"Nutrition, hands down. Listen, as soon as I get a real skinny high school kid, the first thing I have him do is just start eating a shit-ton of food. That’s obvious, right? But here’s the kicker: We’re not going to be too strict or pissed off if he eats McDonald’s a few times per week.

The overriding factor is that they have to put more calories in their body than they burn off. And for a hard gainer whose genetics are working against him, you can’t just have a caloric surplus of 100 or 200 calories a day. If you’re going to gain some size, you’ll need a lot more.

[…]Is it the best? Not really. But it does teach them to eat big and pack the calories in.

Once they reach a base point, then we put them on a balanced plan"[/quote]

In line with that advice, I focused on adding at least 1000 calories to my milk-only diet, via shakes and sandwiches and occasional fried food.

[quote]Chris Colucci said:
The foods you’re eating do not provide high-quality protein, which your body can more easily “turn” into muscle. The foods you’re eating also don’t seem to be delivering enough of a surplus of calories because you’re gaining weight much slower than I’d expect (If you were my client, I’d be disappointed in your progress and I’d suggest changes ASAP).[/quote]

I’ve put on 9 pounds since June 13th, and my arm/chest/thigh measurements have increased. The article Forced Anabolism: How to Overeat discusses overeating, and proposes putting on 10 pounds and holding it. I’ve almost done that in 3.5 weeks. I thought that constituted “success”.

So in general I’m confused, because I didn’t think my diet was that bad; I didn’t think casein and whey were bad protein sources; I thought I was getting a caloric surplus; I thought my gains were reasonable, etc.

I would like to understand what I’m doing wrong and what I need to fix.

2

You’re WAY over-thinking things.
It’s tough to even know where to start with you, you’re all over the place.

Milk being the foundation of your diet is, well, dumb.
Meat should be the foundation of your diet.
Throw in fruits and veggies to keep your body healthy, and then eat whatever the fuck you want ON TOP OF the proper amount of meat and produce.

GOMAD is not a viable way of eating, not for anyone who’s serious about their body.
GOMAD is merely a tool to be added on top of an already properly set-up diet to help break weight-gain plateaus. You need to seriously re-evaluate, invest in some ground beef and frozen veggies, and start eating with a purpose.

Now for your other glaring problem, you’re obviously not training hard enough.
At your weight you should be able to grow just looking at pictures of weights and food in magazines.
The fact that you’re not seeing any appreciable gains tells me you aren’t pushing yourself hard enough in the gym.

So, eat better food, and more of it.
Also, train better.

3

It’s important to know what your financial situation is. If you’re poor, stick to stuff like gomad.

If you’re not poor, then make better choices. The diet you posted is shit.

Eat alot more beef (ground if cost is an issue) and organic eggs. At least 6-10 per day. Don’t get bogged down with supps. Go and find the grocery thread in the supps forum and copy the common stuff.

Coconut oil, cashews almonds walnuts all excellent for BB and health, all cheap.

gomad and fast food is a pile of crap. Eat alot of what i have posted and then add stuff like big burgers or whatever on top. But to be honest you are so underweight, no real need for the junk. Add evoo to all your salads, along with walnuts etc.

you like the old school stuff - steak potatoes and eggs are all still amazing foods. drink some milk sure, but its not a large part of a diet. buy organic or raw milk not chemical processed crap.

go and workout a sample diet and post it here for a critique.

4

I wonder, do you find it hard to eat a lot of solid food? I would’ve thought existing almost entirely on milk would be really unsatisfying (also if I tried that I’d feel like I was going to shit my pants all day, but that’s just me).

I mean, really your diet should consist of dead animals and plants. Drinking a gallon of milk is fine but it’s meant to supplement your diet, not replace it. Things like Quiznos are ok in moderation but you really need to be eating properly.

Dan John has a great line which goes something like “eat like a grown-up”. That’s what you need to do; Quiznos is not grown up food.

Meat and vegetables mate, and lots of. Ditch the crap and eat properly. It really is that simple.

Now go cook a steak!

5

Eating out like that 5-6x a week can end up being the same as buying a week’s worth of solid food that’s much better for you. I’d drop the milk and switch to chicken/eggs/beef (if you can afford), some whey, veggies, a thing of olive oil, and a big bag of rice. Stock up on meats when they are on sale and freeze them and 9lbs in less than a month is overboard.

6

@ivoodoo, yolo, rds, buildingup, thanks for the responses.

You’ve all pointed out in your own ways that my diet needs to change. At the very least, the fast food crap I added on top of the milk needs to change. I knew I needed more calories, so that’s how I went about doing it. I can change that.

Around February, I went into a fairly deep episode of depression. It screwed with my appetite, and I dropped from ~140 to ~129 in about a month. By adding milk and literally forcing myself to drink it on a regular basis (I had timers every 30 minutes), I was able to get my calories back up, and then get my weight back up.

I could eat solid food, but my stomach would get queasy, and I just wouldn’t eat enough. The milk helped get the calories in, even when I couldn’t stomach anything else.

Now I know it sounds stupid to anyone who hasn’t experienced it, but having to make the decision of “what am I going to eat” was also very stressful for me. Most of the time I was just hungry, and didn’t care what… I didn’t want to (or couldn’t) make a decision. It’s an easy decision for most people, but with depression and the associated anxiety, it’s a lot of work. Just being able to have a “go to” food – milk – solved that problem for me. There’s no stress involved in the preparation, and it’s much much healthier than just about anything else that requires no prep.

Of course it’s also cheap, but so are rice and eggs. And ground beef and pork chops are only slightly more expensive.

–

Now the irony is I actually used to enjoy cooking. I have a well stocked kitchen for making just about anything. I made puff pastry and croissants from scratch, sometimes with homemade butter; I made my own bread; I had several awesome slow cooked recipes – including an authentic hungarian goulash, and an excellent creole gumbo; I made great omelets, a favorite was with tarragon and gruyere; and so on.

And the fucking depression killed it all for me.

–

But I was able to live off whole milk, as long as I forced myself to drink enough of it. And so that’s all I was doing up until a few weeks ago.

That’s when I decided that in 5 years, I don’t want to look like I do now… I’m tired of being so skinny. I have endurance and balance and speed, etc., but I don’t look any better for it. I don’t know entirely what I want to look like, but I know it’s not like this.

I added the training. I increased my calories. I made sure I was getting enough protein.

–

So yeah, that’s how I ended up with drinking milk + no-effort crap fast food. Mostly, it’s just accessible, and low stress.

But I guess that needs to change.

I think I can add more meat to my diet, or at least more eggs, without upping the stress level too much. The effort required to cook eggs and clean a pan is so minimal, and yet with this depression, it might be too much for me to handle. I don’t like saying that, but it’s the truth. I’ll give it a try though. It’s a start.

Thanks for reading.

7

[quote]LoRez wrote:
@ivoodoo, yolo, rds, buildingup, thanks for the responses.

You’ve all pointed out in your own ways that my diet needs to change. At the very least, the fast food crap I added on top of the milk needs to change. I knew I needed more calories, so that’s how I went about doing it. I can change that.

Around February, I went into a fairly deep episode of depression. It screwed with my appetite, and I dropped from ~140 to ~129 in about a month. By adding milk and literally forcing myself to drink it on a regular basis (I had timers every 30 minutes), I was able to get my calories back up, and then get my weight back up.

I could eat solid food, but my stomach would get queasy, and I just wouldn’t eat enough. The milk helped get the calories in, even when I couldn’t stomach anything else.

Now I know it sounds stupid to anyone who hasn’t experienced it, but having to make the decision of “what am I going to eat” was also very stressful for me. Most of the time I was just hungry, and didn’t care what… I didn’t want to (or couldn’t) make a decision. It’s an easy decision for most people, but with depression and the associated anxiety, it’s a lot of work. Just being able to have a “go to” food – milk – solved that problem for me. There’s no stress involved in the preparation, and it’s much much healthier than just about anything else that requires no prep.

Of course it’s also cheap, but so are rice and eggs. And ground beef and pork chops are only slightly more expensive.

–

Now the irony is I actually used to enjoy cooking. I have a well stocked kitchen for making just about anything. I made puff pastry and croissants from scratch, sometimes with homemade butter; I made my own bread; I had several awesome slow cooked recipes – including an authentic hungarian goulash, and an excellent creole gumbo; I made great omelets, a favorite was with tarragon and gruyere; and so on.

And the fucking depression killed it all for me.

–

But I was able to live off whole milk, as long as I forced myself to drink enough of it. And so that’s all I was doing up until a few weeks ago.

That’s when I decided that in 5 years, I don’t want to look like I do now… I’m tired of being so skinny. I have endurance and balance and speed, etc., but I don’t look any better for it. I don’t know entirely what I want to look like, but I know it’s not like this.

I added the training. I increased my calories. I made sure I was getting enough protein.

–

So yeah, that’s how I ended up with drinking milk + no-effort crap fast food. Mostly, it’s just accessible, and low stress.

But I guess that needs to change.

I think I can add more meat to my diet, or at least more eggs, without upping the stress level too much. The effort required to cook eggs and clean a pan is so minimal, and yet with this depression, it might be too much for me to handle. I don’t like saying that, but it’s the truth. I’ll give it a try though. It’s a start.

Thanks for reading.[/quote]

In that case, get yourself mentally/emotionally healthy first. THEN work on building the body you want. If you aren’t fully there mentally, building muscle isn’t going to do anything for you. Just my honest opinion, wish you the best.

8

Sorry to hear about the depression.

Can see how the milk helped. Now though - nuts, cold cuts both need no prep. Oats and eggs minimal. Rice and potatoes not much more.

Eat lots of beef eggs turkey nuts rice potatoes. Add evoo nuts and avocado oils to salads and veg. Just eat shit loads of these and not much else and results will quickly improve.

Keep at it.

9

Ground beef, chicken breast, and fish. Use dairy (cheese, milk) as well, but for gods sake, liquid diets? How do you not crap yourself non-stop? I tried GOMAD years ago in college and by the time I was drinking most of a gallon I always felt like I was close to soiling myself non-stop.

As someone who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and depression (part of my years long layoff), I understand the mental side of things that you’re going through to a large extent. I will tell you that getting professional help is important. It may take pharmaceutical forms at first, but decent therapy could be more beneficial (but FFS, have a therapist that commits to a treatment plan, not one that wants to keep you as a weekly or monthly patient forever). Dealing with that shit in a productive way is important. Exercise helps for me, but it isn’t enough so I’ve developed my own coping mechanisms. Particularly, watch out for the booze. Before I got treatment I was going through 1-2 bottles of hard liquor and 2-3 six packs a week.

In the meantime, there are easy ways to make sure you have food handy. Find 2-3 types of veggies and fruit you like and stock up on them every week. Also, if you can just make a batch of chili, or gumbo or jambalaya or something once per week–a big batch–and part it out into individual containers and freeze them. Eat one-two of those small things a day plus fruit and veggies.

If it helps to rigidly plan it out–and it may–then do it. 1st week of the month is chili, 2nd is gumbo, etc. Tell yourself “I will eat 2 handfuls of carrots, 1 handful of spinach, and one piece of fruit with my bowl of food at lunch and dinner”. That’s what I’ve been doing to keep my diet in check when the stress starts to exacerbate my problems.

One thing that I’ve found very helpful too is just to buy a bag of chicken breast on Sunday, stick them each in individual zip lock baggies with a dry rub or marinade. Keep 2-3 out, freeze the rest (pull them out one at a time) and just cook one for dinner each day. Nuts may be good, but I’m allergic to them so I can’t comment on that too much.

10

I’ve been there brother, believe me.
Depression is a bitch, people don’t seem to realize how lost you can get in your own head.

My suggestion is to keep training harder and harder until you don’t feel so down anymore, then train a little harder. That’s the only thing that has ever worked for me.

You gotta break down to re-build, and so forth.
Figure out who you want to be, and what you love to do, then do it. Don’t waver.

Every day, twice a day, I train.
Every day, twice a day, I stress out because I don’t want to train.
Every day, twice a day, I leave the gym happy.
That’s what depression is, it’s a fucking liar. It tricks you in to avoiding the life you want to live under the guise of choice.

It’s like a game where intelligence has no bearing, because the smarter you are, the better the lies are that you tell yourself. I remember so many lies I’ve told myself:
“Fast food is good, it’s anabolic.” LIE.
“Full sugar soda will cause an insulin spike, so it’s cool to drink a case after I train.” LIE.
“I don’t need to eat, I’ll just drink milk and protein shakes.” LIE.
“This soreness must mean I’m over-trained, better take a day off.” LIE.
“Alcohol kills training progress, so I’m being healthy doing drugs.” LIE.
So many fucking lies.

You gotta figure out the truth and stop lying to yourself brother, you gotta find YOUR truth, your personal truth, not his or her’s or some internet guru’s, but you, LoRez, your truth.
The truth will set you free, merely look within.

11

Hard boiling eggs, slow cooking beef, cheese, cold cuts, you can also cook meats in the microwave if necessary… (It may not turn out very well but it should be safe to eat just remember to have something to take the plate out afterwards) Scrambled eggs, fruit, oatmeal, and roasted meats (cooking in the oven) also require very little prep. You can cook things such as roasted meat, slow cooked foods in what my parents like to call a “crock pot”, and other things can be cooked in bulk and you can just simply cook a massive amount one day of the week and microwave it the other days.

12

Wishing you the very best, LoRez. Everything is tied together and interconnected: the mental, the emotional, the physical. Progress in one area will invariably yield positive results in the other areas, and pretty soon, before you know you it, you’ve created a positive feedback loop that fuels itself. Sure there will be temporary setbacks. Nothing in life is perfect, and I understand how difficult it can be and how overwhelming it can all seem at times. But stick with it, and you will emerge a stronger person – mentally, emotionally, and physically. Most important: if things are getting really tough and you feel yourself falling down that hole, please seek professional medical help. Best of luck, man. You can do it.

13

well you know what to do now, you just have to make yourself do it.

Best of luck

14

For a second there, I thought “wouldn’t I get tired of eating the same thing all week?” You know, because milk isn’t like that…

I’m genuinely surprised with the degree of understanding. Thanks guys.

Obviously I still need to change things, and I need to figure out to do it for myself. I now have several ideas that I’ll figure out how to work in. Thanks for those.

I wish it were that simple, but it’s not quite like that – for me at least; they really are all interrelated. To be honest, I’m probably not going to appreciate any gains for awhile. I’m going to train hard, make several changes, and not feel any better for it. But I know that in a number of years from now, I want to look different than now. So it helps if I can measure things and objectively say “yes, they’re improving”. Even if I don’t feel anything from it.

At least for now, the less I have to think about, the easier it is. I don’t have to think about what weight I’m going to use when I go into the gym, how many sets/reps, which exercises. My diet has also been pretty much that simple too. No thought involved, it’s just a matter of doing it.

I can’t trust myself with anything anymore. If it doesn’t make sense on paper, if the logic doesn’t add up, I never know if anything makes sense. E.g., I don’t dress well because I want to dress well, I dress well because it changes how people act around me, which makes it easier to get certain things done. Here and there, sure, I actually like dressing well, but the actual emotion is fleeting. I can’t trust it.

In the same way, if I imagine myself 5 years from now, and what I look like then, then I can draw a map of what it takes to get from where I am to where I want to be. But I can’t relate to it at all. I don’t know if I’ll be alive 5 years from now. I don’t know if I’ll be alive a week from now. (I don’t mean that as in I’m suicidal, I mean it in the sense that I can’t even relate to the idea of experiencing tomorrow.)

But I do know that having some set of structure makes this easier for me, and that’s what I’m focusing on. I came up with some goals, made it make sense on paper, planned it out on paper, and I’m sticking to it, just so I don’t spend my time laying around doing absolutely nothing, going nowhere.

As far as professional help, I’m getting that but I’ve not had much luck. Therapy’s been pretty undirected and I haven’t gotten much from it. And the last medication actually made the depression worse. I went from “never really feeling happy” to “it takes me 3 weeks to empty the dishwasher”.

But I’m still moving forward, and I started training again, and I’m revising my diet. I’ll keep you posted as I make changes.

Thanks again.

15

On the depression note, make sure youre getting a decent amount of vitamin D (its pretty hard to get from diet alone). Milk is a decent source, but you still dont get THAT much from it.

It helps with depression, and has could be correlated with testosterone levels, and its really cheap for a vitamin D supplement (think like 10$ gets you enuf for like 8-12 months depending on where you get it).

It might not solve your problems, but it definitely could help.

16

[quote]dcm1602 wrote:
On the depression note, make sure youre getting a decent amount of vitamin D (its pretty hard to get from diet alone). Milk is a decent source, but you still dont get THAT much from it.

It helps with depression, and has could be correlated with testosterone levels, and its really cheap for a vitamin D supplement (think like 10$ gets you enuf for like 8-12 months depending on where you get it).

It might not solve your problems, but it definitely could help.[/quote]

Yeah, after reading about it on here, I picked some up a week or so ago. I need to get myself taking it regularly though. Thanks.

17

or go outside…get some sun and be around other people. being alone can be depressive

18

If I may, on the medication and depression issue, it sometimes takes a lot of trial and error to figure out which medication is best for a particular individual. Not all people respond the same way to the same medication, and it can take time for the person to notice and become aware of how the medication is affecting him (or her).

Continued best wishes to you.

19

You’ve got a good head on your shoulders, stick with it and I’m sure you’ll find your path.
Best of luck.

20

I want to start off by saying that had I known about your depression issues earlier, your entire situation would’ve been addressed slightly differently (the advice given and the approach, somewhat).

Not blaming, not making excuses, just saying that that’s a pretty major variable that should’ve been factored in from the beginning. You mentioned your distance running, your ab injury, and that you lost weight due to “an illness” which I figured was a stomach bug or something. Anyway…

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Apparently though, my improved diet, the one that I’m gaining weight and strength on, is considered horrible. Even though I’m getting results.

So, I’m trying to understand what’s wrong with it.[/quote]
My primary issue is that, while you are gaining some size and strength, your progress is being severely limited by a less-than-optimal nutrition plan. As I said in another thread, the three sample days’ menus you described looked nothing like what I’d want somebody lifting weights and trying to gain size to eat on a regular basis.

Now I get why milk has become your go-to food, but the sooner we can make good old fashioned meat the foundation of your calorie intake, the better.

This was a huge, but common, mistake. Tons of skinny guys have panic attacks and drop their calories when they notive their abs start getting blurry and fading away. But we’ve got to keep the long road in mind and understand that, as long as your protein intake and training are on point, you’ll be gaining plenty of muscle right along with that fat.

Have you ever seen The Biggest Loser, where a 460-pound guy gets on the scale for the weekly weigh-in and he’s dropped 30 pounds in a single week? Super-skinny guys (like you) are kinda like that in reverse. Nevermind the physiological explanation, but by being on the far end of the bell curve, your body is capable of gaining significantly more than a half-pound per week.

Quick thing - when I mentioned that article, I wasn’t intending for you to necessarily “hold” after the first 10 pounds go on (let alone hold it for 6 months like the article says). My main point was to get those 10 pounds on you ASAP.

Let me clarify when I said I’d be disappointed in that progress: If you and I were working one on one, and at the end of the first week, you said you gained two or three pounds, I’d be like, “Okay, it’s a start, let’s bump up the calories some more each day and see where that takes us next week.”

At the end of the second week, when you came to me and said, “Hey Chris, up another two or three pounds. Cool, right?” I’d be thinking, “Geez, two or three pounds, huh? I was hoping for a little more, especially since we already tweaked the diet. Let’s bump the daily calories again and get some significant results for next week.” Week three rolls around, you’re like, “Gained two or three more pounds.” I’m like, “OMGWTF. Lemme see your nutrition journal. Oh, you’re still not eating enough. More calories, please and thank you.”

Note: If you were already, say, 190 when you came to me and wanted to gain weight, then I’d say we’re more on track with this kind of progress, and that’s when I’d pay (a bit) more attention to how much/how quickly bodyfat is gained during the process.

Really, from the way you described it (and like others have said), if you do what it takes to get your mindset back on track, I think that’ll go a long way. Maybe try to plan a cooking day this Saturday or Sunday. Doesn’t have to be anything elaborate, just a big meal you make for you and your girl.

If you can at least force yourself to do that, like you probably force yourself to finish reps 17-20 on squats, I think that’ll help to establish that you can handle it. And it’ll give you some leftovers to eat during the week. Bonus. :wink:

I think maybe 5 years is too far off to really grasp, for most people really. People can make some dramatic changes in even 90 days, so you might want to break down the long goal (5 or 6 years, whatever) into smaller, easier to visualize segments.

Check out some of the before and afters from the V-Diet:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_bodybuilding_velocity_success/befores_afters_courtesy_of_the_vdiet?id=2959424&pageNo=0
Yeah, it’s a fat loss diet, but you can still see how drastically the body can change in 4-6 weeks when diet and training are totally dialed in.

There are some folks in the Indigo forum that’ve also had some serious muscular changes from combining training, nutrition, supplements, consistency, and dedication:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_indigo_2

Or just check out random threads in the Training Log forum to see people doing work and making progress, day after day:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log

Point is, it’s not going to take five years for you to get to a good place, goal-wise. One step at a time, get things dialed in as soon as possible, and you’ll be back on track.