[quote]ephrem wrote:
…but this suite is first and foremost a civil suite. [/quote]
And ironically enough, Wilders is pushing for the implementation of administrative detention in the Netherlands.
“Freedom and democracy”!
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Of course, Christianity is just as hateful, so they should both be abolished and mocked.
Fixed that for ya.
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I said. Look at all the Methodist attacks on Jews over the past few weeks, for example. The ADL is sending strongly worded letters to the local Christian churches in Los Angeles over our “Death to Jews!” rallies and such in order to head off a second Holocaust. [/quote]
I wonder if Muslims in their golden age mocked and considered conquering the savage Christians who were oh so busy keeping each other ignorant during the European dark ages eh?
Islam is a bigger problem right now. Happy?
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…but this suite is first and foremost a civil suite.
And ironically enough, Wilders is pushing for the implementation of administrative detention in the Netherlands.
“Freedom and democracy”![/quote]
…i’m not a fan of his, and i don’t know his agenda, so where and when did you push for this?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Chushin, why are you turning this thread into something personal?
This is about the movie Fitna and Wilders’ trial. I suggest you start an “I hate Orion” thread if you insist on making it personal.
Who cares what you suggest?
No need to get your panties in a bunch. I was just trying to get something more constructive out of this thread than the personal attack it turned into. [/quote]
You? Trying to be constructive?
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Of course, Christianity is just as hateful, so they should both be abolished and mocked.
Fixed that for ya.
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I said. Look at all the Methodist attacks on Jews over the past few weeks, for example. The ADL is sending strongly worded letters to the local Christian churches in Los Angeles over our “Death to Jews!” rallies and such in order to head off a second Holocaust.
I wonder if Muslims in their golden age mocked and considered conquering the savage Christians who were oh so busy keeping each other ignorant during the European dark ages eh?
[/quote]
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I was having my daily Scripturally-mandated unbeliever hate.
You have heard of the Ottoman empire, haven’t you? The sack of Constantinople in 1453? The siege of Vienna in 1683? Bueller?
I’ve often wonder if it’s fair, “Dark Age?”
[quote]ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…but this suite is first and foremost a civil suite.
And ironically enough, Wilders is pushing for the implementation of administrative detention in the Netherlands.
“Freedom and democracy”!
…i’m not a fan of his, and i don’t know his agenda, so where and when did you push for this?
[/quote]
Me? Never.
But if you’re talking about Wilders, he does get a lot of inspiration from the Zionist state. Here’s a BBC article that talks about his “administrative detention” agenda.
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…but this suite is first and foremost a civil suite.
And ironically enough, Wilders is pushing for the implementation of administrative detention in the Netherlands.
“Freedom and democracy”!
…i’m not a fan of his, and i don’t know his agenda, so where and when did you push for this?
Me? Never.
But if you’re talking about Wilders, he does get a lot of inspiration from the Zionist state.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7314636.stm[/quote]
“JOOOOOS!”
I found a partial translation of a Telegraph article:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3068583/___Moslims_krijgen_weer_gelijk___.html?p=29,1
[quote] ?Muslims are proven right again?
AMSTERDAM ? the gap between non-Muslims and Muslims is widening, stated Contact Organ Muslims and government (CMO). ?It?s more than ever us versus them?, said vice chairman Yusuf Altuntas.
Through the website of De Telegraaf yesterday about seven thousand responses came to our questionnaire regarding the matter. Many respondents said the decision to prosecute Wilders is yet another example of the ongoing Islamisation of The Netherlands. ?Slowly but surely Islam gets its way once again. Disgusting!? one of the typical responses.
Amsterdammer Piet Jan Poelman will therefore do something about it. ?When Wilders runs out of money for his lawyer, he can use mine: Cleerding & Hamer. That way he doesn?t have to worry about the bill.?
Attention
The CMO, the official spokespartner for the government, is rather worried about the consequences for the atmosphere in the nation. ?There are unquestionably two camps in The Netherlands; Wilders is right now completely in his element,? said Altuntas, who is also director of the Turkish mosque Milli Görüs. ?We just started to try to ignore his insults, which reduced his popularity. And now he is again in the limelight.?
Despite all this, Altunas favors prosecution. ?If this is the price we have to pay for the message that nobody is above the law, so be it.? Mustafa Aarab, program leader of the Muslim Dutch Broadcasting Corporation (NIO) thinks differently. He is likewise worried about rising tensions between non-Muslims and Muslims. ?People are afraid of Islamisation. I can?t understand why Muslims say they are happy with the prosecution. The gap only gets wider, just because of it. Lawyer Haroon Raza, one of the plaintiffs in the case, finds the complaint justifiable. ?Should it have undesired effects, so be it.?
The same is said by Art. 1, national expertise center on discrimination ?Wilders had a carte blanche to be able to say anything, for he wasn?t prosecuted. This time a different signal has been given. We expect a massive response, but everybody should know that people who want to say anything about Muslims won?t be muzzled, really.?[/quote]
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…but this suite is first and foremost a civil suite.
And ironically enough, Wilders is pushing for the implementation of administrative detention in the Netherlands.
“Freedom and democracy”!
…i’m not a fan of his, and i don’t know his agenda, so where and when did you push for this?
Me? Never.
But if you’re talking about Wilders, he does get a lot of inspiration from the Zionist state. Here’s a BBC article that talks about his “administrative detention” agenda.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7314636.stm[/quote]
…hehe, that was unintentional (-: i’ll have a read then…
Edit: is that all? There’s nothing of substance there…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…but this suite is first and foremost a civil suite.
And ironically enough, Wilders is pushing for the implementation of administrative detention in the Netherlands.
“Freedom and democracy”!
…i’m not a fan of his, and i don’t know his agenda, so where and when did you push for this
Me? Never.
But if you’re talking about Wilders, he does get a lot of inspiration from the Zionist state. Here’s a BBC article that talks about his “administrative detention” agenda.
…hehe, that was unintentional (-: i’ll have a read then…
Edit: is that all? There’s nothing of substance there… [/quote]
What do you mean? There’s a direct quote. That seems pretty substantive to me.
Lixy I do agree that Wilders trying to ban the Koran is equally as stupid.
For those who saw Fitna (seen it, can’t remember) Wilders never even says anything during the movie, right? Isn’t it all quotes from Muslims, or Koran passages? Shouldn’t muslims be pissed at themselves if it was offensive?
“I believe we have been too tolerant of the intolerant. We should learn to become intolerant of the intolerant,” he said.
“People like Mohammed Bouyeri who killed Theo van Gogh, they should be arrested under administrative detention for the safety of Dutch families.” He has seen administrative detention without trial used in Israel, which he has visited on many occasions.
…he apparently said this in october 2007. The chances of him getting administrative detention through the senate are about as big as the dutch replacing their system of law with sharia law. Wilders has the habit of shouting the loudest and saying the least. Another quote from that article:
“Mr Wilders is a very gifted and talented politician… the problem was and is that he is a monomaniac… it’s He, Himself, Him”
…the modern day court jester…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
“I believe we have been too tolerant of the intolerant. We should learn to become intolerant of the intolerant,” he said.
“People like Mohammed Bouyeri who killed Theo van Gogh, they should be arrested under administrative detention for the safety of Dutch families.” He has seen administrative detention without trial used in Israel, which he has visited on many occasions.
…he apparently said this in october 2007. The chances of him getting administrative detention through the senate are about as big as the dutch replacing their system of law with sharia law. Wilders has the habit of shouting the loudest and saying the least. Another quote from that article:
“Mr Wilders is a very gifted and talented politician… the problem was and is that he is a monomaniac… it’s He, Himself, Him”
…the modern day court jester…[/quote]
Van Gogh, Fortuyn, Wilders, Ayaan Hirsi Ali all saying the same thing. All are either dead, run out of the country or awaiting trial. Jordan wants Wilders extradited so they can behead him.
Yep, you all have nothing to worry about up there, even though people are apparently leaving in droves:
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2044
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
ephrem wrote:
“I believe we have been too tolerant of the intolerant. We should learn to become intolerant of the intolerant,” he said.
“People like Mohammed Bouyeri who killed Theo van Gogh, they should be arrested under administrative detention for the safety of Dutch families.” He has seen administrative detention without trial used in Israel, which he has visited on many occasions.
…he apparently said this in october 2007. The chances of him getting administrative detention through the senate are about as big as the dutch replacing their system of law with sharia law. Wilders has the habit of shouting the loudest and saying the least. Another quote from that article:
“Mr Wilders is a very gifted and talented politician… the problem was and is that he is a monomaniac… it’s He, Himself, Him”
…the modern day court jester…
Van Gogh, Fortuyn, Wilders, Ayaan Hirsi Ali all saying the same thing. All are either dead, run out of the country or awaiting trial. Jordan wants Wilders extradited so they can behead him.
Yep, you all have nothing to worry about up there, even though people are apparently leaving in droves:
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2044[/quote]
…Fortuyn wasn’t killed by islamists. Wilders won’t be extradited, and Ayaan will say or do anything to get ahead in life and seeks revenge for what’s been done to her…
…the three top countries the dutch are emigrating to are:
- Belgium
- Germany
- France
…and the main reason for emigrating? Population density. If at all possible, but i might be a dreamer, i’d like to emigrate one day. Possibly to Spain, perhaps to the southern part of Norway. As you see, i’m still conflicted (-: Anyway, i understand that you are distraught because you feel all unpatriotic and must contemplate emigration yourself, you know, with Obama 'n all? But that doesn’t mean you can spin facts like this and not be corrected…
Edit: oh, and scroll all the way down the page for a reaction by a dutch mover, quite enlightning…
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I’m genuinely curious to know if those who “purposefully insult” (or whatever the phrase was that Orion used) Judaism or Christianity in these countries get arrested and convicted, too.
Surely there must be Muslims “insulting just to insult” in these countries. What happens to them, I wonder?[/quote]
First of all, you do not get arrested for such a triviality. Why would you detain someone who gets a slap on the wrist afterwards?
Then, the Muslims inciting hatred and whatnot usually stand in court because of a little bit harsher paragraphs.
[quote]dk44 wrote:
For those who saw Fitna (seen it, can’t remember) Wilders never even says anything during the movie, right? Isn’t it all quotes from Muslims, or Koran passages? [/quote]
That doesn’t sound right. I can distinctly remember bits written by him to push for his party’s agenda.
Do you ever watch the news? Ever notice that Muslims dying violently are mainly the result of “Muslims” killing them? How does that not spell “pissed at themselves” to you?
Taking things out of context is easy. Taking translated verses from a cryptic book out of context is even easier. Particularly so when there’s a highly mediatized group running around saying the same things.
Take the ingredients above. Mix thoroughly with logical fallacies. Sprinkle with scary music and unrelated footage. Then serve in an environment where immigrants are very poorly integrated, and where Hirsi Ali and Van Gogh are public figures. Hope that people don’t know any better.
…during the '60s and the 70s, dutch society secularized and came to terms with the inherent flaws in belief and religion, but the process of coming to terms was not without turmoil. This change however was not violent and agressive, but a shift in gravity from within the collective made it possible to go forward…
…the old VOC motto: “God is good, but profit is better” still applies today in the sense that irreverance is the tool of the trade for bringing our society further. The biggest mistake the [liberal] government, at the end of the '80s and during the '90s, made was misunderestimating the inability of a backward mindset to adapt to a permissive and liberal culture without pressure from the host country to do so…
…this is why figures like Wilders are needed because they stirr things up, and maybe, maybe, muslims dare to look in the mirror he holds up and see that there’s no going back in time. To stay relevant, one has to evolve and grow and change. Holding on to ancient beliefs and traditions for the sake of identity at the cost of many, many lives cannot last…
[this concludes the lecture]
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I’m genuinely curious to know if those who “purposefully insult” (or whatever the phrase was that Orion used) Judaism or Christianity in these countries get arrested and convicted, too.
Surely there must be Muslims “insulting just to insult” in these countries. What happens to them, I wonder?[/quote]
Wilders movie is inciting hatred, not just “insulting”. That is what he is charged with. So, get your facts straight. You may not see the fine line between the two, but it’s there.
For example, Monty Python’s Life of Brian clearly insults Christians (and believers in general). It was banned in its home-country by several town councils, in Ireland for 8 years, Norway for 12 months and in many American states.
Now, suppose Life of Brian was made by a right-wing political party, portrayed Christians as blood-thirsty via amalgams and ends with the message “stop the Christianization of X”. Do you think a proudly liberal country with a recent history (7 decades ago) of not protecting one of his religious minority will let it slide?
I could cite the litany of laws and court cases about Jews in Europe, but that wouldn’t be fair since they’re an ethno-religious group.
Now, my turn for questions: Do you think there’s some sort of double standard in the Dutch legal system that you feel victimizes Christians? If so, is it a global conspiracy by all the Muslims banks and media empires? Explain.