Fitna Update

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
22

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
An Austrian politician just got convicted of something similar:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024525.php

… her son was convicted for the same thing though, because he suggested to keep sheep in public parks in order to lower the number of rapes by Muslim men.

They CONVICT you for making a suggestion in Austria? God, it’s worse than I thought there![/quote]

No we have laws against slanderous remarks against religions.

Usually this is dead law, because most official religions know better than to pursue such matters and I would not be surprised if such laws were removed if that happens more often.

23

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
An Austrian politician just got convicted of something similar:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024525.php

Hey Orion!

You said your anger was directed at govt abuses, right?

I look forward to your diatribe about the evil Austrian government.

PS Surely you knew about this before the rest of us. Why didn’t you tell us???

Has she received a verdict yet?

The article says she has not, at least not a final one.

If that is any consolidation her son was convicted for the same thing though, because he suggested to keep sheep in public parks in order to lower the number of rapes by Muslim men.

You see, it is not so much that she criticized Islam, it is more about her claiming that Mohamed was a pedophile, Muslims are organizing brothels to have sex with animals and that they should best be thrown back behind the Mediterranean sea.

All of that would of course be perfectly fine if she could prove that it is true.

Ah, justifying the thought police, now, eh? [/quote]

No, the “you do not get to incite a riot in Austria” police.

24

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
See my edit above.

And yes, our police is so corrupt that an elected official is brought before a court if he or she even breaks a minor law.

I am deeply ashamed of that fact and we will strive to live up to the example of the US.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

http://www.austriantimes.at/?c=1&id=5060

“Photos which may have shown teenage kidnap victim Natascha Kampusch was used as a sex slave by her kidnapper were deliberately hidden by Austrian police to avoid a political scandal, according to police documents.”
[/quote]

Rumors.

The only one who knows is Kampusch herself and so far, no word from her.

27

So you’re all saying that the hate-threshold in Europe is lower than that in the US?

I’m shocked! SHOCKED!

Next thing you know, they’ll be banning books and jailing people for questioning the scale and scope of certain tragic historical events.

What’s ironic, is that Wilders is the very same guy trying to ban the Quran in the Netherlands.

28

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:

They CONVICT you for making a suggestion in Austria? God, it’s worse than I thought there!

No we have laws against slanderous remarks against religions.

Usually this is dead law, because most official religions know better than to pursue such matters and I would not be surprised if such laws were removed if that happens more often.

Watch you don’t trip as you backpedal, OK?

OF COURSE, it’s “explainable” in Austria! Only in the US are the problems “real” and “legitimate,” right?

You’re cracking me up here! Thanks for the yuks![/quote]

Look.

It is a minor, extremely rarely used law that carries a maximum penalty of 6 months.

In order to be convicted you have to go out of your way to insult a religious group for the sake of insulting them.

She is not even convicted yet.

Also, she is an elected member of a state parliament and she was indicted like everybody else would be.

I have no idea where you see backpedaling, but do you have any idea what we would have done to an administration breaking one tenth of the laws of the Bush administration?

No matter whether that is a reasonable law or not, we expect our law makers to obey the rules they make for the rest of us.

30

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
See my edit above.

And yes, our police is so corrupt that an elected official is brought before a court if he or she even breaks a minor law.

I am deeply ashamed of that fact and we will strive to live up to the example of the US.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

http://www.austriantimes.at/?c=1&id=5060

“Photos which may have shown teenage kidnap victim Natascha Kampusch was used as a sex slave by her kidnapper were deliberately hidden by Austrian police to avoid a political scandal, according to police documents.”

Rumors.

The only one who knows is Kampusch herself and so far, no word from her.

Ha ha ha! Yes, I’m sure they’re just “rumors.” The great Austrian police could NEVER do such a thing!

You are rapidly looking more and more biased, son.

Quit while you’re behind, ok?

Coward.[/quote]

As I wrote, Kampusch must know whether such pictures exist.

She is the victim and so far we have not heard a word from her.

I think it is perfectly possible that the Austrian police would do such a thing, they would be running a very high risk here though if all she needs to do is talk.

31

[quote]lixy wrote:
So you’re all saying that the hate-threshold in Europe is lower than that in the US?

I’m shocked! SHOCKED!

Next thing you know, they’ll be banning books and jailing people for questioning the scale and scope of certain tragic historical events.

What’s ironic, is that Wilders is the very same guy trying to ban the Quran in the Netherlands.[/quote]

Well, I am shocked to, because our Holocaust denial laws are nothing to be proud of.

33

Chushin, why are you turning this thread into something personal?

This is about the movie Fitna and Wilders’ trial. I suggest you start an “I hate Orion” thread if you insist on making it personal.

34

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
An Austrian politician just got convicted of something similar:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024525.php

If that is any consolidation her son was convicted for the same thing though, because he suggested to keep sheep in public parks in order to lower the number of rapes by Muslim men.

You see, it is not so much that she criticized Islam, it is more about her claiming that Mohamed was a pedophile, Muslims are organizing brothels to have sex with animals and that they should best be thrown back behind the Mediterranean sea.

All of that would of course be perfectly fine if she could prove that it is true.

Ah, justifying the thought police, now, eh?

No, the “you do not get to incite a riot in Austria” police.

But, but, but…I thought freedom of speech was ABSOLUTE???

You’re a Libertarian, right? Only when it suits you, maybe?

So, so long as some paranoid group gets offended enough to riot, freedom of speech is curtailed? What the hell kind of country are you living in?[/quote]

First of all, your knowledge of libertarian doctrine is obviously limited.

Then, Austria is not a libertarian country. I have never claimed to agree with that law, only explained that it is not that much of a problem as you seem to think it is.

Also, I wrote what the qualifications are.

Public demeaning and ridiculing of an officiously recognized religious group in a manner that is sufficient to incite justifiable anger.

§ 188 StGB Herabwürdigung religiöser Lehren

Wer öffentlich eine Person oder eine Sache, die den Gegenstand der Verehrung einer im Inland bestehenden Kirche oder Religionsgesellschaft bildet, oder eine Glaubenslehre, einen gesetzlich zulässigen Brauch oder eine gesetzlich zulässige Einrichtung einer solchen Kirche oder Religionsgesellschaft unter Umständen herabwürdigt oder verspottet, unter denen sein Verhalten geeignet ist, berechtigtes Ärgernis zu erregen, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu sechs Monaten oder mit Geldstrafe bis zu 360 Tagessätzen zu bestrafen.

If someones feelings are hurt that is nót enough.

36

[quote]lixy wrote:
Chushin, why are you turning this thread into something personal?

This is about the movie Fitna and Wilders’ trial. I suggest you start an “I hate Orion” thread if you insist on making it personal.[/quote]

What I would really want to know if it is that big a deal.

I mean I can agree that such laws are problematic, but a maximum of 6 months (which basically means a fine) for a misdemeanor that maybe sees a court once a year or so?

If that is our biggest problem are we not blessed?

edit:

There have been 3 verdicts because of the §188-191 StGB in 2007, and all have been fines.

http://www.statistik.at/web_de/static/verurteilungen_nach_deliktgruppen_und_strafen_2007_022495.pdf

37

[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Chushin, why are you turning this thread into something personal?

This is about the movie Fitna and Wilders’ trial. I suggest you start an “I hate Orion” thread if you insist on making it personal.

Who cares what you suggest? [/quote]

No need to get your panties in a bunch. I was just trying to get something more constructive out of this thread than the personal attack it turned into.

38

lol @ europe
free speech ftw

39

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:

They CONVICT you for making a suggestion in Austria? God, it’s worse than I thought there!

No we have laws against slanderous remarks against religions.

Usually this is dead law, because most official religions know better than to pursue such matters and I would not be surprised if such laws were removed if that happens more often.

Watch you don’t trip as you backpedal, OK?

OF COURSE, it’s “explainable” in Austria! Only in the US are the problems “real” and “legitimate,” right?

You’re cracking me up here! Thanks for the yuks!

Look.

It is a minor, extremely rarely used law that carries a maximum penalty of 6 months.

In order to be convicted you have to go out of your way to insult a religious group for the sake of insulting them.

She is not even convicted yet.

Also, she is an elected member of a state parliament and she was indicted like everybody else would be.

I have no idea where you see backpedaling, but do you have any idea what we would have done to an administration breaking one tenth of the laws of the Bush administration?

No matter whether that is a reasonable law or not, we expect our law makers to obey the rules they make for the rest of us.

Ah yes, in the end, Austria’s shit doesn’t stink like everyone else’s.

Who said the “master race” mentality was dead?!? One defeat does not a humble people make.

Here’s a hint for you, genius. ALL society’s have problems. Some more than others, but NONE that are so superior that their members should be as smug and arrogant as you are about the US.

Nest time you look in the mirror, try OPENING YOUR EYES. Those warts won’t kill you.

It’s been fun watching you hunt for grape leaves, but I’m tired of looking at the naked Austrian ass.

EDIT: PS: “a banking scandal involving senior government figures revealed that Austrian police from Taskforce Natascha were told by superiors to not investigate further leads or any material seized from the kidnapper of Natascha Kampusch.” From the article. Doesn’t seem to be “just rumors, eh?” [/quote]

Well, yes they are just rumors, eh?

If you know more than us, compile a “Sachverhaltsdarstellung” and I guarantee that I will personally hand it over to a judge and a public servant in the department of justice I went to the university with.

40

…this issue ís worrisome, but for different reasons. The High Court rejected earlier allegations against Wilders, but this indictment was filed by a attorney who is a member of the dutch Labour party, and who [may] follow[s] party orders.

That is overstepping a dangerous line, aside from the fact that it’s again a classic dutch way of dealing with difficult issues: do not solve the problem by adressing the issue, but take out the person who brings the problem up…

…but this suite is first and foremost a civil suite. At least, it’s filed by members of the public, and certain organisations. Other political parties have spoken out against this lawsuit. They’d rather deal with Wilders politically, so not all is lost. I do feel that these issues are good for stirring things up.

I’ve not lost trust that common sense will prevail, and dutch society will even benefit from these troublesome times. Altough generally, things get worse before they get better…