First Set Last & Joker Sets in Full Body Template?

This is my current 5/3/1 full body template:

Day 1
Squat: 5/3/1
Bench: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5
Accessory work

Day 3
Front Squat: 3x3
OHP: 5/3/1
Deadlift: 5/3/1
Accessory work

Day 5
Squat: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5
Bench: 5/3/1
Accessory work

I was just wondering if incorporating first set last and joker sets is a good idea in a full body template, or would it be way too much to recover from? This is what I plan to do:

Day 1
Squat: 5/3/1+First set last
Bench: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5
Accessory work

Day 3
Front Squat: 3x3
OHP: 5/3/1+First set last
Deadlift: 5/3/1+Joker sets
Accessory work

Day 5
Squat: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5
Bench: 5/3/1+First set last
Accessory work

So basically for the squat, bench, and overhead press I do first set last for extra volume since and Joker sets for deadlift since deadlifting for lower volume but higher intensity works well for me, while doing the other lifts for more volume but more moderate intensity works better for me which is why I don’t include joker sets for squat, bench and overhead press…just the first set last sets for extra volume. But would this be too much work? I know for the traditional upper lower split FSL and jokers are excellent but for full body where frequency is higher by default I just want to know your opinions’.

I had the exact same concern/question before I did the full-body template last year, and this is what I took away from it afterwards, at least for me personally. (I followed Jim’s updated full-body template from the “Beyond” book.)

The increase in frequency of squatting should definitely make you err on the side of caution when it comes to adding any additional volume (like first set last for multiple sets) for squats. Maybe if you’ve ALREADY done the template for at least one or two cycles and you’re already used to all the extra squatting.

For the bench, I did Jim’s template that had 5X10 bench on Day 1, so extra volume on top of that (in addition to the 5/3/1 work for the bench) didn’t seem to help much. (Which led to me really notice that the more I tried to tweak Jim’s templates, the worse the results, and the more I stuck to Jim’s templates, the better the results.)

For the deadlift, doing jokers should depend on how high your training max is in relation to your actual max (which would obviously depend on how long you’ve been doing 5/3/1 and how many resets you’ve done, etc.) If 315 is your 3-plus weight, and you barely get 4 or 5 brutally hard reps, then joker sets for the deadlift might not be a good idea, especially with all the extra squatting.

But if you’re banging out 13 reps for the 3-plus weight, then it might actually be a good idea to focus more on joker sets instead of such high reps at heavy weight. (Which is what happened with me and worked really well once I incorporated more jokers.)

Hmm…I’ll just stick to the first template without FSL and jokers then, thank you for your help :slight_smile:

I have actually decided to do it like this:

Day 1
Squat: 5/3/1
Bench: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5 (all based on training max)
Accessory work

Day 3
Front Squat: 3x3
OHP: 5/3/1+First set last
Deadlift: 5/3/1+Joker sets
Accessory work

Day 5
Squat: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5 (all based on training max)
Bench: 5/3/1
Accessory work

The squat and bench press doesn’t have first set last since the frequency is already twice a week so the extra volume is unnecessary, but the overhead press is only once a week and very low volume so I decided to add first set last to it since I respond well to higher volume for overhead pressing…also I respond very well to high intensity deadlifts so I added joker sets only for the deadlifts.

You’ve put a lot of thought into this, and what you’re saying makes sense. You’ve come up with a good plan that you seem to really believe in, and that’s huge. Now you just need to make a commitment to follow through on your template for the next 6 weeks.

If I were you, beginning this week, I would do 2 back-to-back cycles without a deload over the next 6 weeks (as suggested in the “Beyond” book) while following your template using all of Jim’s main principles (start light, progress slowly, focus on the big lifts, and set personal records). Don’t think about tweaking anything more until the END of the NEXT six weeks, and then you’ll have actual personal data to analyze.

But make sure to just begin lifting with your new template instead of continuing to analyze it. (I did the same thing at one point in my life and ended up wishing I had just spent more time, energy and effort in lifting instead of analyzing.)

Then, you can do a deload, and decide on any further changes to the full-body template at THAT point in time. (Or maybe you’ll want a lot more volume in 6 weeks, and you’ll do Boring But Big. Or maybe you’ll have a lot of stuff come up in your life and you’ll do a 2-day-a-week template.) But what I’ve seen (and what Jim has said) is that what matters is moving forward with the weights on the big lifts and following the main 5/3/1 principles.

Now is the time to follow your plan and not too much more analysis until 6 weeks.