First Cycle! Here Goes Nothing

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
Frontloading gets your levels up to the point that you want to have them at. It doesn’t go “above” that. It takes away weeks in the beginning of the cycle that are not really doing anything for you growth wise.[/quote]

Here is the part where we disagree. (I understand half-life theory and that it doesnt go “above” planned blood levels). As to the second part of your statement, there is nothing in the literature or in my anecdotal experience to suggest that the period of onset ESPECIALLY on a first cycle of weeks at 250, etc etc up to just sub 500 will “do [nothing] really for [me] growth wise.”

We both agree that your best gains occur in the first 1-6/8 weeks of a cycle. However, the fact that you make your best gains in the first weeks is not simple due to the arbitrary number of first 6 weeks = best growth. When you supply a dose of exo test of 500, your body immediately compensates for a dose of 500 test by upregulating co-factors(SHBG, d-r of AR-sites, increased myostatin expression, compensation of lean tissue slin-sensitivity, etc). You body will compensate. Being that much of this takes place by action of the endocrine system there is a lag time where you have the ability to exploit all the benefits. By NOT frontloading you have more than just ONE opportunity to take advantage of this ‘lag’ time.

The one time where I find frontloading helpful, would be for a competing athlete going from a TRT//cruise to a blast when they’re already holding more muscle than an intermediary dose of test would contribute to.

I guess what it all really boils down to is this.

Two cycles.

#1) W1-12 750mg test

#2) W1-6 500mg test
W7-12 750mg test

Which cycle yields better results? You guys choose option 1, I choose option 2 (even though there is less drugs used total)

As long as we can agree on the disagreement I suggested above, there’s no longer a reason to argue because we would gain nothing from it.

[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
your body immediately compensates for a dose of 500 test by upregulating co-factors(SHBG, d-r of AR-sites, increased myostatin expression, compensation of lean tissue slin-sensitivity, etc). Y[/quote]

I’ll just point out that most of this is conjecture/bro-science and not actually demonstrated in studies. Especially the AR down-regulation which IIRC has been shown to not be a factor in humans.

I’m sure there is some degree of truth to most of this, but I do not think it is the great equalizer that you are making it out to be.

BigJJ,

I never took this as an argument man, I take it as learning and challenging each other, with the end goal of becoming more knowledgeable. I dont have it all figured out and Im certainly not above changing my view/stance on something if Im wrong.

Case in point, I have refrained from making any comments about HCG lately. Im from the “old school” hcg mentality. However VTBalla has made several posts about HCG usage on several peoples threads over the past month or so that I didnt completely agree with. Thing is, he always had backed it up with research and study, so I had to reflect because I actually had zero rebuttals for any of them. So until I can take the time and study up on the latest research and studies of HCG, I may have to rethink my stance on it.

Point being to all this mumbling is while some come on here to gloat and argue, I actually like to engage in others methods and opinions because its another method of learning.

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Forgot to state my goals. Basically guna try n recomp the best I can.
[/quote]

More specific goal(s) will allow others to provide more helpful advice.

For instance, you can consider taking your kcals WAY low etc.

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:
BigJJ,

I never took this as an argument man, I take it as learning and challenging each other, with the end goal of becoming more knowledgeable. I dont have it all figured out and Im certainly not above changing my view/stance on something if Im wrong.

Case in point, I have refrained from making any comments about HCG lately. Im from the “old school” hcg mentality. However VTBalla has made several posts about HCG usage on several peoples threads over the past month or so that I didnt completely agree with. Thing is, he always had backed it up with research and study, so I had to reflect because I actually had zero rebuttals for any of them. So until I can take the time and study up on the latest research and studies of HCG, I may have to rethink my stance on it.

Point being to all this mumbling is while some come on here to gloat and argue, I actually like to engage in others methods and opinions because its another method of learning. [/quote]

Hey my man, when I said argument I honestly didn’t mean it in an antagonistic manner. I come across like a dick over forums, likely because I try cut to the point and I have an over-confident air to my writing which would take too much of my time to purposely edit out.(see I just did it again), obviously this is a flaw on my part, one which I would do well to attempt to correct as many people take word as truth if it is said with enough confidence regardless of the actual content.

At no point in time did I consider our conversation anything less than friendly, I am by no means an expert, just doing my best to provide my opinion–>conjecture–>bro-science which has served me well in the past, so that it might afford someone else equal benefit. I did not mean to offend, nor do I ever.

EDIT: And my opinions in the above response were true through-out the duration of the thread, not a last minute implementation due to your most recent very polite response. Just fyi.

E [quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Forgot to state my goals. Basically guna try n recomp the best I can.
[/quote]

More specific goal(s) will allow others to provide more helpful advice.

For instance, you can consider taking your kcals WAY low etc.

[/quote]

I plan on keeping calories around maintenance, with carbs pre and post workout. Most of my cals from protein and fat.

Probably around 250g of protein, 100g of fat and around 100g of carbs. I have no idea how my body will react to this so I’ll keep an eye on waist size and weight. Obviously regardless of cals I’ll get bloat from the d bol so I’ll take that into account when I re-asses.

As ive been overweight for a long ive always been trying to diet, somehow when keeping cals low and protein high I managed to gain around 15lbs of muscle over the last 2 years.

So I have a feeling that while applying the same nutrition principle and being on this im guna see huge changes.

What’s your blood pressure like ? Keep an eye on that too.

[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:
BigJJ,

I never took this as an argument man, I take it as learning and challenging each other, with the end goal of becoming more knowledgeable. I dont have it all figured out and Im certainly not above changing my view/stance on something if Im wrong.

Case in point, I have refrained from making any comments about HCG lately. Im from the “old school” hcg mentality. However VTBalla has made several posts about HCG usage on several peoples threads over the past month or so that I didnt completely agree with. Thing is, he always had backed it up with research and study, so I had to reflect because I actually had zero rebuttals for any of them. So until I can take the time and study up on the latest research and studies of HCG, I may have to rethink my stance on it.

Point being to all this mumbling is while some come on here to gloat and argue, I actually like to engage in others methods and opinions because its another method of learning. [/quote]

Hey my man, when I said argument I honestly didn’t mean it in an antagonistic manner. I come across like a dick over forums, likely because I try cut to the point and I have an over-confident air to my writing which would take too much of my time to purposely edit out.(see I just did it again), obviously this is a flaw on my part, one which I would do well to attempt to correct as many people take word as truth if it is said with enough confidence regardless of the actual content.

At no point in time did I consider our conversation anything less than friendly, I am by no means an expert, just doing my best to provide my opinion–>conjecture–>bro-science which has served me well in the past, so that it might afford someone else equal benefit. I did not mean to offend, nor do I ever.

EDIT: And my opinions in the above response were true through-out the duration of the thread, not a last minute implementation due to your most recent very polite response. Just fyi.[/quote]

I forgot to mention I do agree with you second proposed cycle overall (500mg bumped to 750 after a few weeks). Very few people realize how effective it is. I didn’t take it antagonistic either, this just how us Alpha males talk to one another, lol.

This is what I plan to do if all goes well. From week 7 or 8 to increase my dose to 750 mg a week.

As for my blood pressure, ill get it checked monthly but ive never had any problems so far.

5th day today and i cant wait for shot of test after work.

I was dreading the fist one but now i cant wait for the next!

My workouts get more and more unreal each time.

90 seconds rest between sets is enough to make u feel that you havent started working out yet!

So… im up just under 6lbs so far and lost an inch around my waist, salt is low, cabrs are lowish protein and fat are quite high.

I guess its just bloat from the d-bol for now.

No sides yet which is a good sign i gues.s

heres the link to my brothers log, running the same cycle as me

This has happened twice so far during my session, my forearms and wrists are getting so pumped i have to loosen my watch an extra notch just so it fits.


From this mornings chest ans tri session

From this mornings chest and tri session

First week is done.

Weighed in his morning at 246lbs. Thats up 11lbs.

Naval is still at 41.

Arm cold this morning was 18 1/4.

Not really any sides, nipples were a tiny bit sensitive this morning so i’m guna add 20mg of Nolva for the next 5 days to see if that help.

The pumps are insane, my forearms get so pumped its almost impossible to to train my bis properly. Just walking at a brisk pace to the gym in the morning males my clave blow up as well.

Weighed in this morning at 249.5 wtf?! Gained 15lbs in 10 days. Arm is now 18.5 cold in the morning and my waist is down .5 of an inch. Guess I’m doing something right.

good lad, remember though a lot of that initial weight gain is water weight.

Loads of guys gain 20lbs on cycle then freak out when they lose 10 of it in PCT.

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
So… im up just under 6lbs so far and lost an inch around my waist, salt is low, cabrs are lowish protein and fat are quite high.

I guess its just bloat from the d-bol for now.

No sides yet which is a good sign i gues.s [/quote]

The bloat is a side, the itchy nipples are a side. imho, you should consider increasing your AI dosage given the amount of test you’re taking as well as your body composition.

Now ive taken a few days of nolvadex my nips feel fine now I may increase.my ai slightly. Ive.not been this heavy since I was 17

And being morbidly obese. So thats good im just guna see how it goes fron now on.