[quote]rds63799 wrote:
while some of the advice in this thread has been a bit Simon Cowell, it’s because no one wants you to DIE Marzouk![/quote]
lol i like to ham it up now and again.
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
But your guesstimate of ‘well over 30% bf’ and ‘extremely obese’ are way out of the ball park. Thank you for your concern. [/quote]
hey buddy it is not meant as an insult
but based on your pics, starting weight, height and strength you are kidding yourself
the pics on page 1 are easily 30%BF if not higher, to guess 20% is delusional
those pics are severely obese
as a comparison some college kid is posting in the supps forum at the mo - you both look very similar and everyone says he is around 35%BF
it looks like you should have started at around 180 not 235 so that is 55lbs of fat which is alot
if you are ever going to achieve your goals - drugs or not - at some point you will need to dramatically cut down on the amount of fat you are carrying
the first step in that is admitting that it is far higher than you are telling yourself it is[/quote]
-
I never said i was 20%bf
-
ur body fat estimations are horrifc. if you think i;m anywhere near 35%bf you are delusional. John Goodman and Rosie o’donell are like 35%.
-
Strength is relative, and has nothing to do with size to a certain degree. proven over in the PL forum by the 137lb woman who can dl 518lbs.
[/quote]
Actually Goodman and o’donell are both probably right around 50 (yes its scary to beleive some people are more then half adipose.
I have been in the low 20s before and I looked a heck of a lot less sloppy then you. 30+% is probably a pretty good estimate for you
[quote]GoCal wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]GoCal wrote:
Thanks for all your posts and honesty. Even with “assistance” it still is a lot of work on many different components to get superior results.
Good luck going forward.
[/quote]
this is what people fail to understand…
until they start doing aas themselves.[/quote]
Couldnt agree more. My personal view is the path is a lot narrower on aas than off. Every activity about training must have more rigorous focus when on. AAS magnify the good, but also hugely magnify the BAD.
Lance Armstrong certainly used plenty of peds, but he also trained super hard. The guys around him were using too, but many were not as diligent in their offseason as him.[/quote]
my first cycle (half a gram of test P a week) I thought I was going to become huge, ripped, and tan (no joke)… I thought I was going to look like the guys in the magazines
needless to say, while I did get REALLY strong (repped 225 on incline for 15 easy reps, paused a lot of them on my chest to catch my breath), I didn’t get NEARLY what I thought I was going to get lol…
[/quote]
this is what people fail to understand…
until they start doing aas themselves.[/quote]
Couldnt agree more. My personal view is the path is a lot narrower on aas than off. Every activity about training must have more rigorous focus when on. AAS magnify the good, but also hugely magnify the BAD.
Lance Armstrong certainly used plenty of peds, but he also trained super hard. The guys around him were using too, but many were not as diligent in their offseason as him.[/quote]
my first cycle (half a gram of test P a week) I thought I was going to become huge, ripped, and tan (no joke)… I thought I was going to look like the guys in the magazines
needless to say, while I did get REALLY strong (repped 225 on incline for 15 easy reps, paused a lot of them on my chest to catch my breath), I didn’t get NEARLY what I thought I was going to get lol…[/quote]
You get it. Sorry I was an ass to you in another thread. This whole thread is one every noobie should read. If it could quash the false dreams of “I am 19, I want just one cycle to add about 25 pounds of lean mass, I have been training for three months” it would be lovely.
[quote]GoCal wrote:
this is what people fail to understand…
until they start doing aas themselves.
Couldnt agree more. My personal view is the path is a lot narrower on aas than off. Every activity about training must have more rigorous focus when on. AAS magnify the good, but also hugely magnify the BAD.
Lance Armstrong certainly used plenty of peds, but he also trained super hard. The guys around him were using too, but many were not as diligent in their offseason as him.
my first cycle (half a gram of test P a week) I thought I was going to become huge, ripped, and tan (no joke)… I thought I was going to look like the guys in the magazines
needless to say, while I did get REALLY strong (repped 225 on incline for 15 easy reps, paused a lot of them on my chest to catch my breath), I didn’t get NEARLY what I thought I was going to get lol…
You get it. Sorry I was an ass to you in another thread. This whole thread is one every noobie should read. If it could quash the false dreams of “I am 19, I want just one cycle to add about 25 pounds of lean mass, I have been training for three months” it would be lovely.[/quote]
no worries
[quote]tork94 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
But your guesstimate of ‘well over 30% bf’ and ‘extremely obese’ are way out of the ball park. Thank you for your concern. [/quote]
hey buddy it is not meant as an insult
but based on your pics, starting weight, height and strength you are kidding yourself
the pics on page 1 are easily 30%BF if not higher, to guess 20% is delusional
those pics are severely obese
as a comparison some college kid is posting in the supps forum at the mo - you both look very similar and everyone says he is around 35%BF
it looks like you should have started at around 180 not 235 so that is 55lbs of fat which is alot
if you are ever going to achieve your goals - drugs or not - at some point you will need to dramatically cut down on the amount of fat you are carrying
the first step in that is admitting that it is far higher than you are telling yourself it is[/quote]
-
I never said i was 20%bf
-
ur body fat estimations are horrifc. if you think i;m anywhere near 35%bf you are delusional. John Goodman and Rosie o’donell are like 35%.
-
Strength is relative, and has nothing to do with size to a certain degree. proven over in the PL forum by the 137lb woman who can dl 518lbs.
[/quote]
Actually Goodman and o’donell are both probably right around 50 (yes its scary to beleive some people are more then half adipose.
I have been in the low 20s before and I looked a heck of a lot less sloppy then you. 30+% is probably a pretty good estimate for you
[/quote]
It’s hard to explain, i carry pretty much all over my bf around my hips and lower ab area. Everywhere else im pretty firm. Its quite strange. TBH i’m not really concerned with a number, its the looking like shit that bothers me.
[quote]GoCal wrote:
[/quote]
this is what people fail to understand…
until they start doing aas themselves.[/quote]
Couldnt agree more. My personal view is the path is a lot narrower on aas than off. Every activity about training must have more rigorous focus when on. AAS magnify the good, but also hugely magnify the BAD.
Lance Armstrong certainly used plenty of peds, but he also trained super hard. The guys around him were using too, but many were not as diligent in their offseason as him.[/quote]
my first cycle (half a gram of test P a week) I thought I was going to become huge, ripped, and tan (no joke)… I thought I was going to look like the guys in the magazines
needless to say, while I did get REALLY strong (repped 225 on incline for 15 easy reps, paused a lot of them on my chest to catch my breath), I didn’t get NEARLY what I thought I was going to get lol…[/quote]
You get it. Sorry I was an ass to you in another thread. This whole thread is one every noobie should read. If it could quash the false dreams of “I am 19, I want just one cycle to add about 25 pounds of lean mass, I have been training for three months” it would be lovely.[/quote]
Same here, i got a lot stronger and gained a lot of endurance in the gym as well. I also gained quite a lot of muscle i think. My upper back and legs. But the results were no where near as obvious as i thought they would be. I gained around 20lbs and my waist measurement stayed the same and at one point i dropped an inch off there. Hopefully that was a good sign.
Like i said earlier, it was a learning experience and i would definitely do another cycle, although it will be from a totally different starting point.
So in Marzouks case could he do another cycle but a cutting one if he had a his diet in check? Or would it be better in his case to just lose it naturally?
[quote]optheta wrote:
So in Marzouks case could he do another cycle but a cutting one if he had a his diet in check? Or would it be better in his case to just lose it naturally? [/quote]
if I was Op I would:
clean up my diet
get on about 500mg test E/week
get on DNP
u won’t grow while using DNP, but boy will u lose that chub
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]tork94 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
But your guesstimate of ‘well over 30% bf’ and ‘extremely obese’ are way out of the ball park. Thank you for your concern. [/quote]
hey buddy it is not meant as an insult
but based on your pics, starting weight, height and strength you are kidding yourself
the pics on page 1 are easily 30%BF if not higher, to guess 20% is delusional
those pics are severely obese
as a comparison some college kid is posting in the supps forum at the mo - you both look very similar and everyone says he is around 35%BF
it looks like you should have started at around 180 not 235 so that is 55lbs of fat which is alot
if you are ever going to achieve your goals - drugs or not - at some point you will need to dramatically cut down on the amount of fat you are carrying
the first step in that is admitting that it is far higher than you are telling yourself it is[/quote]
-
I never said i was 20%bf
-
ur body fat estimations are horrifc. if you think i;m anywhere near 35%bf you are delusional. John Goodman and Rosie o’donell are like 35%.
-
Strength is relative, and has nothing to do with size to a certain degree. proven over in the PL forum by the 137lb woman who can dl 518lbs.
[/quote]
Actually Goodman and o’donell are both probably right around 50 (yes its scary to beleive some people are more then half adipose.
I have been in the low 20s before and I looked a heck of a lot less sloppy then you. 30+% is probably a pretty good estimate for you
[/quote]
It’s hard to explain, i carry pretty much all over my bf around my hips and lower ab area. Everywhere else im pretty firm. Its quite strange. TBH i’m not really concerned with a number, its the looking like shit that bothers me.
[/quote]
according to your pics you carry your body fat pretty much everywhere
u literally look like someone stuck a hose in you and filled u with subcutaneous mayonnaise
I think your new nickname is “gut-butter”
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]tork94 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
But your guesstimate of ‘well over 30% bf’ and ‘extremely obese’ are way out of the ball park. Thank you for your concern. [/quote]
hey buddy it is not meant as an insult
but based on your pics, starting weight, height and strength you are kidding yourself
the pics on page 1 are easily 30%BF if not higher, to guess 20% is delusional
those pics are severely obese
as a comparison some college kid is posting in the supps forum at the mo - you both look very similar and everyone says he is around 35%BF
it looks like you should have started at around 180 not 235 so that is 55lbs of fat which is alot
if you are ever going to achieve your goals - drugs or not - at some point you will need to dramatically cut down on the amount of fat you are carrying
the first step in that is admitting that it is far higher than you are telling yourself it is[/quote]
-
I never said i was 20%bf
-
ur body fat estimations are horrifc. if you think i;m anywhere near 35%bf you are delusional. John Goodman and Rosie o’donell are like 35%.
-
Strength is relative, and has nothing to do with size to a certain degree. proven over in the PL forum by the 137lb woman who can dl 518lbs.
[/quote]
Actually Goodman and o’donell are both probably right around 50 (yes its scary to beleive some people are more then half adipose.
I have been in the low 20s before and I looked a heck of a lot less sloppy then you. 30+% is probably a pretty good estimate for you
[/quote]
It’s hard to explain, i carry pretty much all over my bf around my hips and lower ab area. Everywhere else im pretty firm. Its quite strange. TBH i’m not really concerned with a number, its the looking like shit that bothers me.
[/quote]
according to your pics you carry your body fat pretty much everywhere
u literally look like someone stuck a hose in you and filled u with subcutaneous mayonnaise
I think your new nickname is “gut-butter” [/quote]
Mr anonymous tough guy on the internet.
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
I know i’m never guna be the leanest person out there. But the comments here have been an eye opener and maybe they are the well needed kick up the ass i need to get my shit together.[/quote]
This kind of self-defeating talk, just stop. Besides, getting your bf down to reasonable levels has pretty much nothing to do with being the leanest person out there. Be realistic and be positive and then be relentless.
Again, you make it sound as if you’re doomed to be this way forever. Leave that shit in the past and stop thinking/talking like that in the here-and-now.
And pls consider clen completely off-limits, for your own heart’s sake.
[quote]chillain wrote:
And pls consider clen completely off-limits, for your own heart’s sake.
[/quote]
Takes GW instead 
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
I know i’m never guna be the leanest person out there. But the comments here have been an eye opener and maybe they are the well needed kick up the ass i need to get my shit together.[/quote]
This kind of self-defeating talk, just stop. Besides, getting your bf down to reasonable levels has pretty much nothing to do with being the leanest person out there. Be realistic and be positive and then be relentless.
Again, you make it sound as if you’re doomed to be this way forever. Leave that shit in the past and stop thinking/talking like that in the here-and-now.
[/quote]
Ye these are very good points, guess i need to change my mindset, can only hold me back otherwise. Good motivation.
As for the clen, i dropped it after i realised it didn’t do shit for me apart from make my hands shake.
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
And pls consider clen completely off-limits, for your own heart’s sake.
[/quote]
Takes GW instead :P[/quote]
GW?
Have you started working with Zraw yet? When do you plan on doing your pct? The reason I’m asking, Doing a cut and going through pct at the same time can be mental bitch on your strength levels. Everyone will react differently, but I will never do a cut again immediately after running a cycle. I’m sure you and Zraw have it all figured out though. Wishing you the best man! I really enjoyed reading your log here…Thanks.
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
The fact that this OP was honest from the start is what makes this post so important and rare, I know everyone out there is ripped and can bench 500lbs, but this honesty is what is needed to spred information, he said he’s benching 350, this is a pretty big natural bench, mabey he got caught up chaseing numbers in the gym, and his six pack got put aside to gain weight and move bigger numbers, I’ve seen this happen to lots of guys.
Point is OP kmows he’s over weight, he posted his journey this took guts, so others can learn.I have been on gear for years, just going by how I feel and look, at 40 I’ve never once talked to a doc on how this all affects my health. his post took alot of courage and we should be suporting him, not bashing him. I for one may owe him my life. thks[/quote]
I think this is a good post.
OP knows what’s up, he really isn’t under a lot of delusions. He absoultely looks like he lifts, and while yolo’s post may have been harsh but spot on in many instances, he completely missed the mark here. There is no question in my mind that this dude puts in work in the gym.
I’ve enjoyed this thread too. My non-expert opinion is that the OP suffers as much from shitty hormone levels as he does shitty diet. These may be related, but it is very difficult to get that shape (with the ultra-spare tire) without a large degree of estrogen present, with low thyroid hormones to boot. Diet will certainly help but there is no way to really out-eat what your body won’t let you do. If it were me, I would take low dose adex and low dose T3 for a long time, like 6 months, and slowly chip away at that spare tire while cleaning up my diet.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
The fact that this OP was honest from the start is what makes this post so important and rare, I know everyone out there is ripped and can bench 500lbs, but this honesty is what is needed to spred information, he said he’s benching 350, this is a pretty big natural bench, mabey he got caught up chaseing numbers in the gym, and his six pack got put aside to gain weight and move bigger numbers, I’ve seen this happen to lots of guys.
Point is OP kmows he’s over weight, he posted his journey this took guts, so others can learn.I have been on gear for years, just going by how I feel and look, at 40 I’ve never once talked to a doc on how this all affects my health. his post took alot of courage and we should be suporting him, not bashing him. I for one may owe him my life. thks[/quote]
I think this is a good post.
OP knows what’s up, he really isn’t under a lot of delusions. He absoultely looks like he lifts, and while yolo’s post may have been harsh but spot on in many instances, he completely missed the mark here. There is no question in my mind that this dude puts in work in the gym.
I’ve enjoyed this thread too. My non-expert opinion is that the OP suffers as much from shitty hormone levels as he does shitty diet. These may be related, but it is very difficult to get that shape (with the ultra-spare tire) without a large degree of estrogen present, with low thyroid hormones to boot. Diet will certainly help but there is no way to really out-eat what your body won’t let you do. If it were me, I would take low dose adex and low dose T3 for a long time, like 6 months, and slowly chip away at that spare tire while cleaning up my diet. [/quote]
Hey VT thanks for stopping by again. You are right about the hormone thing, i tested my e2 and it was elevated, probably due to the extra fat i’m carrying, my natural test was actually quite high which was a positive.
I was thinking about t3 as well, before i did my cycle i started taking adex for a month and lost around 12lbs without much diet alteration i may continue this. Something i will mention Zraw about. Only time will tell i suppose.
[quote]AzCats wrote:
Have you started working with Zraw yet? When do you plan on doing your pct? The reason I’m asking, Doing a cut and going through pct at the same time can be mental bitch on your strength levels. Everyone will react differently, but I will never do a cut again immediately after running a cycle. I’m sure you and Zraw have it all figured out though. Wishing you the best man! I really enjoyed reading your log here…Thanks.[/quote]
Hey! Thanks for stopping by, I’m starting next week when i get back from business in China, hopefully i’ll handle the PCT ok but as you said, i won’t know until it. Start PCT on friday for 4 weeks so should be interesting. Guna train as much as i can and see how it goes. Fingers crossed i’ll be fine. Hopefully working with Zraw will set me on the right track!