First Cycle at 40

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]seekonk wrote:
Just curious, why would you want to do this?

I could understand it if you were skinny like me but you’re built like a brick shithouse. Yet you call yourself ectomorph. Are you sure you don’t have a slight case of body dysmorphic disorder? :slight_smile:

You would look even more impressive (and appear bigger) if you did a bit of a cut, not a bulk.

You will probably just lose whatever gains you may make on a cycle once you stop, and you may permanently mess up your HPTA in the process at your age, so at best you would not be any better off after, and there is a significant probability you may be worse off. Take it from someone who did what you are proposing, with more reason, and then realized it was not a good decision.

Not everyone can “just go on TRT” as someone suggested above and feel good. A large number of people never feel as good or function as well on TRT as they did when they were natural, so it is important not to imperil a good HPTA if avoidable.[/quote]

For toe first question as to why I want to do this, because I’m ready and thanks for the compliment I have worked hard to not only get where I’m at but keep it as well. Reading your post its obvious to me your an Ectomorph as well so you should be the first to recognize my daily, weekly, YEARLY dedication. I’m not built this way because I said I’m to skinny and ill never be big. On the contrary, I said because I’m skinny ill put in the WORK to get big.

I disagree with you thinking ill loose “everything” after. While there will be a definite decrease with solid dedication and diet which i have I will not loose all. Now if I sat on my ass definitely, but that’s not the case. Also I disagree totally with your cut theory. And my goal here is not to be super cut. And ill also have to disagree on ruining HPTA. I plan on blood work and while this is a minor cycle I’m still doing homework daily on PCT especially. Also posting this is to help with insight other people have which in turn drives me to do MORE homework. I’m not taking this lightly and the cycle will go through a LOT more change to protect my body and my gains.

Sorry to hear you ruined your HPTA. Ill encourage you to share your story. I’d like to know how old you were and how much homework you did. If you had your doctor involved or just went by what you read on a forum. Did you get your blood work done before you pinned as well as two weeks and one month after you came off cycle as I have planned? Also explain your cycle in depth I’d like to hear where it went wrong. You say you had more reason than me but I disagree, when you said that it means you didn’t wait till you were even close to your body’s natural potential, you wanted a quick result which motivated you to pin to early. Bad move because you weren’t at full potential as I am it’s very understandable why you lost ALL your gains. More likely your cycle diddnt even take you to your bodies natural potential so by being in a rush and not putting in the ground work you made a bad mistake. I haven’t. Also while I may be 40 my blood work is consistant and physically I’m in way better health than a LOT of people at 30.

So thanks for looki g out man, ill increas my homework even further now.

22

[quote]SwD wrote:
I too suggest the Adex EOD at first, and HCG throughout the cycle, not as PCT. [/quote]

Any thoughts on using HCG throughout the cycle AND during PCT??? The thing that gets me about it is I agree with BOTH. Knowing that natural production will stop during the cycle it’s important to me to keep the boys hanging healthy. BUT When you stop taking AAS your body will continue to metabolize them for some time depending on the drug. For example Testosterone Enanthate has a half life of 10.5 days. What this means is that 10.5 days after injecting 500mg of Test E your body will have metabolized 250mg. So in another 10.5 days your body will have metabolized the remaining 250 then right? - Wrong. In an additional 10.5 days your body will have metabolized half of what is remaining, which is (1/2) * 250 = 125. So in total, after 21 days the body has metabolized 375 out of 500mg of the Test E. The formula for half lives is [Injection-(AmountAllreadyMetabolize d*(2)^(-TimeInDays/HalfLifeInDays))]
And going by that technically I should start HCG three weeks after last pin.

So the question I have now is because both sides of the debate are relevant is is a bad thing to possibly use HCG throuout the cycle AND during PCT??? Or is this for another thread???

23

people only lose their gains if they’re way above their natural limit or can’t eat/train for shit.

You’re neither, so you’ll be fine. Enjoy your cycle.

24

[quote]PROPAINE74 wrote:
So the question I have now is because both sides of the debate are relevant is is a bad thing to possibly use HCG throuout the cycle AND during PCT??? Or is this for another thread???
[/quote]
HCG is said to be suppressive as well, though in a different pathway. Basically, you use it to keep the boys alive, but when you go off, you want them to come back as naturally as possible.

I’m slightly older than you - though it feels weird to write it as I don’t look or feel the part - and last cycle it was my first time using HCG, and it made post cycle a breeze. Though I’m now considering staying on TRT levels after cycles as well, old age sucks, and we have a way to fight it!

I’ve always gone completely off. And BTW I suggest you come off using a “stasis period”, that is 4-6 weeks at 100mg or less. It makes going off a lot easier than simply stopping AAS straight up.

25

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]PROPAINE74 wrote:
So the question I have now is because both sides of the debate are relevant is is a bad thing to possibly use HCG throuout the cycle AND during PCT??? Or is this for another thread???
[/quote]
HCG is said to be suppressive as well, though in a different pathway. Basically, you use it to keep the boys alive, but when you go off, you want them to come back as naturally as possible.

I’m slightly older than you - though it feels weird to write it as I don’t look or feel the part - and last cycle it was my first time using HCG, and it made post cycle a breeze. Though I’m now considering staying on TRT levels after cycles as well, old age sucks, and we have a way to fight it!

I’ve always gone completely off. And BTW I suggest you come off using a “stasis period”, that is 4-6 weeks at 100mg or less. It makes going off a lot easier than simply stopping AAS straight up.[/quote]

That’s great info SwD I had also read about the “stasis period” I’m going to research that and redo my cycle accordingly. Soon as its done and I hit the pin ill blog it. Thanks fellas!

26

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
people only lose their gains if they’re way above their natural limit or can’t eat/train for shit.
[/quote]

Maybe, BUT…

The net gains from any single cycle (after you come off, recover, and lose extra water weight and fat you may have gained on cycle) is often maybe 5 lbs, maybe 7 lbs if you are far from your genetic maximum, which I doubt is the case here. I suspect a lot of those people could have gained 5 lbs drug-free in the same number of months they were on cycle and recovery. Everybody thinks they are going to be the exception, but those who claim they are, are often just the ones who got fat and didn’t lose it. If you want more, you will need multiple cycles or stay on all the time.

How much did you gain first cycle? I seem to remember a post where you said 5 lbs, but I may be confusing you with someone else.

The OP needs to decide if one cycle is worth 5 pounds and if he could have gained those 5 lbs naturally in the 6 months the cylce + recovery are going to take him. That’s less than my water weight fluctuation between going to bed and getting up. It’s really not much.

27

[quote]PROPAINE74 wrote:

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]PROPAINE74 wrote:
So the question I have now is because both sides of the debate are relevant is is a bad thing to possibly use HCG throuout the cycle AND during PCT??? Or is this for another thread???
[/quote]
HCG is said to be suppressive as well, though in a different pathway. Basically, you use it to keep the boys alive, but when you go off, you want them to come back as naturally as possible.

I’m slightly older than you - though it feels weird to write it as I don’t look or feel the part - and last cycle it was my first time using HCG, and it made post cycle a breeze. Though I’m now considering staying on TRT levels after cycles as well, old age sucks, and we have a way to fight it!

I’ve always gone completely off. And BTW I suggest you come off using a “stasis period”, that is 4-6 weeks at 100mg or less. It makes going off a lot easier than simply stopping AAS straight up.[/quote]

That’s great info SwD I had also read about the “stasis period” I’m going to research that and redo my cycle accordingly. Soon as its done and I hit the pin ill blog it. Thanks fellas! [/quote]

I hope you do log it, it’d be interesting and very useful to other beginners, you seem to have done more research than most and are in a great place to start. Best of luck, I’m looking forward to it

28

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
people only lose their gains if they’re way above their natural limit or can’t eat/train for shit.
[/quote]

Maybe, BUT…

The net gains from any single cycle (after you come off, recover, and lose extra water weight and fat you may have gained on cycle) is often maybe 5 lbs, maybe 7 lbs if you are far from your genetic maximum, which I doubt is the case here. I suspect a lot of those people could have gained 5 lbs drug-free in the same number of months they were on cycle and recovery. Everybody thinks they are going to be the exception, but those who claim they are, are often just the ones who got fat and didn’t lose it. If you want more, you will need multiple cycles or stay on all the time.

How much did you gain first cycle? I seem to remember a post where you said 5 lbs, but I may be confusing you with someone else.

The OP needs to decide if one cycle is worth 5 pounds and if he could have gained those 5 lbs naturally in the 6 months the cylce + recovery are going to take him. That’s less than my water weight fluctuation between going to bed and getting up. It’s really not much.

[/quote]

You know jack shit about steroids. Seriously, don’t post about stuff you read on the interwebz and have absolutely zero personal experience of. Get a hobby or something.

29

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
people only lose their gains if they’re way above their natural limit or can’t eat/train for shit.
[/quote]

Maybe, BUT…

The net gains from any single cycle (after you come off, recover, and lose extra water weight and fat you may have gained on cycle) is often maybe 5 lbs, maybe 7 lbs if you are far from your genetic maximum, which I doubt is the case here. I suspect a lot of those people could have gained 5 lbs drug-free in the same number of months they were on cycle and recovery. Everybody thinks they are going to be the exception, but those who claim they are, are often just the ones who got fat and didn’t lose it. If you want more, you will need multiple cycles or stay on all the time.

How much did you gain first cycle? I seem to remember a post where you said 5 lbs, but I may be confusing you with someone else.

The OP needs to decide if one cycle is worth 5 pounds and if he could have gained those 5 lbs naturally in the 6 months the cylce + recovery are going to take him. That’s less than my water weight fluctuation between going to bed and getting up. It’s really not much.

[/quote]

You know jack shit about steroids. Seriously, don’t post about stuff you read on the interwebz and have absolutely zero personal experience of. Get a hobby or something.
[/quote]

I think this is his new hobby. Trying to “educate” people about things he himself knows jack about.

→ Seekonk

People are coming here looking for advice and guidance regarding what they plan to do. If you’d like to be helpful stop spewing about why not to do it and give them advice about how to do things properly. Helping to maximize the usefulness and minimize the risk. If you know anything about the subject. Otherwise you are wasting everyones time.

30

[quote]Dieseldave wrote:

[quote]PROPAINE74 wrote:

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]PROPAINE74 wrote:
So the question I have now is because both sides of the debate are relevant is is a bad thing to possibly use HCG throuout the cycle AND during PCT??? Or is this for another thread???
[/quote]
HCG is said to be suppressive as well, though in a different pathway. Basically, you use it to keep the boys alive, but when you go off, you want them to come back as naturally as possible.

I’m slightly older than you - though it feels weird to write it as I don’t look or feel the part - and last cycle it was my first time using HCG, and it made post cycle a breeze. Though I’m now considering staying on TRT levels after cycles as well, old age sucks, and we have a way to fight it!

I’ve always gone completely off. And BTW I suggest you come off using a “stasis period”, that is 4-6 weeks at 100mg or less. It makes going off a lot easier than simply stopping AAS straight up.[/quote]

That’s great info SwD I had also read about the “stasis period” I’m going to research that and redo my cycle accordingly. Soon as its done and I hit the pin ill blog it. Thanks fellas! [/quote]

I hope you do log it, it’d be interesting and very useful to other beginners, you seem to have done more research than most and are in a great place to start. Best of luck, I’m looking forward to it
[/quote]

Yeah man ill log and blog everything to include diet. I got about two weeks till I got everything here. Till then ill just keep hitting it hard.

31

[quote]installglass wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
people only lose their gains if they’re way above their natural limit or can’t eat/train for shit.
[/quote]

Maybe, BUT…

The net gains from any single cycle (after you come off, recover, and lose extra water weight and fat you may have gained on cycle) is often maybe 5 lbs, maybe 7 lbs if you are far from your genetic maximum, which I doubt is the case here. I suspect a lot of those people could have gained 5 lbs drug-free in the same number of months they were on cycle and recovery. Everybody thinks they are going to be the exception, but those who claim they are, are often just the ones who got fat and didn’t lose it. If you want more, you will need multiple cycles or stay on all the time.

How much did you gain first cycle? I seem to remember a post where you said 5 lbs, but I may be confusing you with someone else.

The OP needs to decide if one cycle is worth 5 pounds and if he could have gained those 5 lbs naturally in the 6 months the cylce + recovery are going to take him. That’s less than my water weight fluctuation between going to bed and getting up. It’s really not much.

[/quote]

You know jack shit about steroids. Seriously, don’t post about stuff you read on the interwebz and have absolutely zero personal experience of. Get a hobby or something.
[/quote]

I think this is his new hobby. Trying to “educate” people about things he himself knows jack about.

→ Seekonk

People are coming here looking for advice and guidance regarding what they plan to do. If you’d like to be helpful stop spewing about why not to do it and give them advice about how to do things properly. Helping to maximize the usefulness and minimize the risk. If you know anything about the subject. Otherwise you are wasting everyones time.[/quote]

Agreed!!!