Final Hughes Vs. Gracie Thread?

Training Powerlifting
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Well, there were 2 royce vs. yoshida fights. You wouldn’t know it if all your research was looking on Sherdog at stats and not following the fights though. the first match where they stopped it as though Royce was out was annulled in a sense. Not listed as though it never happened. It was falsely stopped by the ref who claimed royce was out from a choke and he was fine. Even Royce haters could see that.
The 2nd match went to the bell with Royce clearly dominating. If you don’t think Yoshida is good at MMA…watch both his fights with Vanderlei… His losses to Vanderlei are decisions…his loss to Rulon Gardner…a decison. His fight with Gracie a draw. ALL HIS OTHER FIGHTS ARE SUBMISSION WINS
Don Frye, Tank Abbot, Tamura, Ogawa, MARK HUNT…And the decisons to silva were VERY CLOSE.
Yoshida is a bad dude. You just don’t seem to get it. Yoshida can hang with ANYONE.
Don’t just look at w’s and l’s
Also, when Sak beat Royce…he was on top. he lost to much larger ferocious killers like silva and cro crop…But beat rampage, randleman and tons of other TOUGH DUDES…what does a guy need to do to be good at MMA??? Do you watch the fights or look on sherdog at records?

[quote]eqpfunk wrote:
Scrappy wrote:
did you see the 2nd Yoshida fight…A draw in the books but I think Royce won that.

eqpfunk wrote:
danew wrote:
eqpfunk wrote:
MattFarlick wrote:
Gracie wins, not even debateable.

Hughes’ strength is great until you compare it to some of Gracie’s other opponents like Kimo, Severn, etc. Hughes is easily submitted and is really outmatched against an opponent like Gracie (i.e., he is weakest against Gracie’s fighting style).

Gracie would not have agreed to come back and fight somone he didn’t already watch, study, and know he could dominate. Gracie is a true student of the MMA, he will know Hughes better than Hughes knows himself tomorrow night.

You don’t watch much MMA do you. Of course Gracie beat Kimo, Shamrock, Severn etc… They had never heard of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Hughes trains in BJJ, wrestling and lately stand up striking. He’s tapped out his last 3 opponents with submissions.

BJJ is no big secret these days and Hughes will know exactly what Gracie is coming with. The Gracie’s don’t have that great of records. And lately they’ve been on a slide. Royce hasn’t beaten anyone significant in 11 years. This is a gimme for Hughes. If Gracie even does any damage, Hughes should hang his head in shame.

Not that great of records? Rickson won over 400 fights. He never lost a MMA match, only one shootfighting match in his entire career. That’s a decent record. Royce has beaten several opponents from Pride in the last 11 years. And to compare a guy who has done BJJ for a few years, what, 5-6 at the most, to someone who not only grew up with it, but rolled with the best people in the world on a daily basis is ludacris.

Matt Hughes will not “know what’s coming” any more than anyone who has trained a couple years of BJJ will. If Hughes wins it’ll be because he’s smart, patient, and keeps his elbows in and his head up. You can rest assured my friends that if he screws up even once in Royce’s guard that he’ll be submitted, helped up, and sent home. Royce wins in 3rd round after frustering Matt through 3 fairly uneventful rounds to the untrained eye. Triangle choke.

Since 1995 the only people Royce Gracie has beaten are Akebono (a sumo wrestler) and Nobuhiko Takada (a can from Japan’s pro wrestling). So exactly one person in Pride and one in K-1. Here’s the source:

We’ll just have to wait til tonight to find out if the mythical Royce can take beat the welterweight champ.

Ok, It was a very debatable fight. I too don’t think Royce tapped and that he got robbed. So let’s give him that win. That would bring his record in pride to 2 wins. Neither vs. particularly great MMA fighters (Yoshida is an olympian and Judo master, but not a great MMA fighter). Of all the people he’s fought, Sakuraba would be the closest to Matt Hughes in well roundedness, and Royce couldn’t mount any big offense after 90 minutes until it was towel time. I stand by my feeling that the Gracie family as a whole deserves much props, but no single Gracie is that great.[/quote]

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Why does everyone keep talking about how “well rounded” Hughes is like it matters? Hughes may be as well rounded as Carmen Electra’s titties but Gracie is better than Hughes where this fight will take place, which is on the ground.

143

[quote]Scrappy wrote:
Well, there were 2 royce vs. yoshida fights. You wouldn’t know it if all your research was looking on Sherdog at stats and not following the fights though. the first match where they stopped it as though Royce was out was annulled in a sense. Not listed as though it never happened. It was falsely stopped by the ref who claimed royce was out from a choke and he was fine. Even Royce haters could see that.
The 2nd match went to the bell with Royce clearly dominating. If you don’t think Yoshida is good at MMA…watch both his fights with Vanderlei… His losses to Vanderlei are decisions…his loss to Rulon Gardner…a decison. His fight with Gracie a draw. ALL HIS OTHER FIGHTS ARE SUBMISSION WINS
Don Frye, Tank Abbot, Tamura, Ogawa, MARK HUNT…And the decisons to silva were VERY CLOSE.
Yoshida is a bad dude. You just don’t seem to get it. Yoshida can hang with ANYONE.
Don’t just look at w’s and l’s
Also, when Sak beat Royce…he was on top. he lost to much larger ferocious killers like silva and cro crop…But beat rampage, randleman and tons of other TOUGH DUDES…what does a guy need to do to be good at MMA??? Do you watch the fights or look on sherdog at records?
[/quote]

Ok admittedly I only saw Yosh vs Royce 1, where yosh was smothering royce but royce didn’t tap. I’ve only seen 2 other yoshida fights so undoubtedly I’m underestimating him. I saw Sak vs Royce and I believe Sak won, he’s one of my favorite fighters. I think you misread my post. Sak is awesome at MMA and a total legend. Aside from what you stated about Yosh vs. Royce 2, you’re not telling me anything I don’t already know and I think we’re agreeing.

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I think the 5 minute round will work against Gracie. I can’t wait though, It’ll be fun tonight.

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[quote]MattFarlick wrote:
Why does everyone keep talking about how “well rounded” Hughes is like it matters? Hughes may be as well rounded as Carmen Electra’s titties but Gracie is better than Hughes where this fight will take place, which is on the ground.[/quote]

Tell me this: how is Royce going to get it to the ground if Hughes wants to stand and punch?

I suppose he can grab him and flop to his back, but that will only cause him a terrible beating!

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Not to hjack too badly - but who is on the undercard?

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[quote]A-Town Crown wrote:
I think the 5 minute round will work against Gracie. I can’t wait though, It’ll be fun tonight.[/quote]

^^^Key point^^^

I stand by my earlier opinion. Royce loses by KO/TKO in the 2nd.

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I call Royce by rear naked choke… ya heard!

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[quote]Jason32 wrote:
I call Royce by rear naked choke… ya heard!

[/quote]

LOL, Roids Gracie vs. AIDS victim Hughes.

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This fight is the “can I tap Hughes in 15 minutes match”. Rickson once said he can tap anyone, it just takes a little longer if they’re bigger or skilled. Royce really needs to bring the heat fast cause those rounds are going to go quick.

Royces second biggest weapon is his endurance. I can’t see him tapping someone of Hughes caliber in that short of time. When he signed this fight he should’ve stipulated the rounds go for 15 minutes.

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“I workout every day and I run on top of that, im in great shape” - Matt Hughes

…everyday? but matt isnt that overtraining?

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eqpfunk wrote:
LOL, Roids Gracie vs. AIDS victim Hughes.

Wow! that picture is amazing. He really does look like an AIDS victim. I think Royce might have this one after seeing that picture.

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My take:

-Gracie cannot take Hughes down. This is probably the key to the fight.

-Neither guy has shown to have any real knockout power. I wouldnt look for a standing finish. Hughes may be able to stop it by ground and pound, but only ref stoppage.

-Gracie will not quit. Ref will have to stop it or corner throws in the towel.

-Both have the cardio to go forever.

-If you think Royce CAN’T submit Hughes any way shape or form, you’re nuts. Hughes has shown vulnerability to being submitted. Think Penn, Halman and Newton(the triangle was there).

Ultimately, I think it will be Hughes in a decision.

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[quote]A-Town Crown wrote:
This fight is the “can I tap Hughes in 15 minutes match”. Rickson once said he can tap anyone, it just takes a little longer if they’re bigger or skilled. Royce really needs to bring the heat fast cause those rounds are going to go quick.

Royces second biggest weapon is his endurance. I can’t see him tapping someone of Hughes caliber in that short of time. When he signed this fight he should’ve stipulated the rounds go for 15 minutes.[/quote]

Royce’s stamina is good no question. But Hughes is in another league relative to stamina!

Also, Royce had no power to make the rounds 15:00, it’s a state law they go 5:00.

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[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
otoko wrote:
But remember this; MMA money is fairly limited compared to other sports. It is just not attacting the top athletes and maybe not even the most skilled fighters. And until it does, competition will be watered down (relatively). Imagine a boxer with world class boxing skills learning submissions, etc at an early point in his career and what type of fighter he’d be? Won’t happen though. Why? Boxing money is so much bigger. Someone said it in another post and they were right - imagine if the Jevon Kearse’ of the world were attracted to MMA at an early age? Won’t happen until the MMA money here gets BIG. Six figure contract? Are you kidding me? Whats that? A three year contract for $105k? C’mon. This is why the competition is relatively mediocre. It’s a tough tough way to make a living to begin with; now consider the relatively low pay.

I have thought about this alot. Initially it makes sense. Though I think there are a few holes in this argument.
I don’t agree that the most skilled fighters are not fighting. Maybe not in the UFC. But the best bjj fighters do fight in Pride, Arona, Nogueira brothers, Bustamante, etc. Sambo, Fedor, three time World Combat Sambo champion. Olympic caliber wrestlers. K-1 kickboxers.

Boxing money isn’t good for everybody, only the guys at the top. Having world class boxing skills doesn’t mean you would be a great champion.
The money at the top in boxing is great, why don’t more heavyweight athletes try to become heavyweight champion of the world. The sport is tough. Being strong and quick are great, but it isn’t nearly enough. For every great physical specimen like Tyson and Roy Jones jr. there is a Bernard Hopkins and James Toney.

Alot of people just cannot fight, they don’t have it in them. Andthat is normal. Just because you are a freak athlete doesn’t change that.
Guys like Bob Sapp, he shouldn’t fight. He can. But with tears in his eyes and showing his back it is a disgrace. I think even if mma money was the same as american football more people would still choose to play football.
Top guys in Pride make decent money, 500,000-2,000,000dollars a fight.

Well I’m not sure we entirely disagree. First, my thoughts were more about the UFC. UFC money is shit and the competition in the UFC is not great. And that is my criticism of all the Hughes fans and their mentioning of his “accomplishments”. I really believe the measure of the man will be known when and if he fights outside of the UFC.

I mention boxing, again, when considering the lack of (relative) skills in the UFC; if you had a guy with world class hands and reactions learning MMA early on, you’d have one tough competitor. I can’t take it when people talk about how good this guy Hughes is, about how he is the best in a division that is loaded, and his hands aint shit. What does that tell you about the competition?

Why don’t more heavyweight guys go into boxing? Same reason they don’t go into MMA. The money, top to bottom, is not there. Only at the very top. And the top is occupied by 4 at most. Social and popularity issues at work here too. Basketball and football are far more popular outlets for the young and developing athlete. You’re surely not going to argue that these MMA guys top to bottom are “elite” athletes are you? There is more athletic talent sitting on the bench on an NFL football team than there is the UFC. Heck, there is more talent from the guys CUT from the NFL that currently in the UFC.

I’m not sure I understand your point about Hopkins and Toney? What was the point? That they are not “physical specimens”. Uh boy, you’re wrong. Hopkins is a marvelous physical specimen for his weight class - its not even a debate. It’s a boxing match - not a BB contest. And the man is a specimen. And are you forgetting what Toney was like in his prime at his true weight? You lost me there friend.

Alot of people can’t fight? Again, what is your point. If you can’t fight - the economic law of competition takes over. Can’t fight? You disappear from the scene. Only in places like crazy-ass Japan where they tolerate and reward a big CUR like Sapps can a loser make money. You quit here and you’re done.

I certainly understand your points about athletic skill does not always beget a fighter. The point was that from top to bottom, these fighters out there are by no means “remarkable” athletes. If and when the sport attracts those type of athletes who of course, need to be able to fight, we might have something special to watch. And that will NEVER happen until the money is big and of course, social issues develop to push the sport like basketball, football, etc. It’s still not just popular enough.

Does anyone know when we can expect Hughes to leave the comfy confines of the UFC and show us his mettle overseas?

[/quote]

I see what you are saying. I want to clarify a few of my points though. In regards to Hopkins, yes he always comes in in great condition. I meant relatively. Through his mid thirties through now, he has not been the man with the best physical tools. It is boxing, so it is skill is what I am saying. James Toney also, yes even when he was lighter though he still fought bigger/arguably Physically stronger opponents like Iran Barkley. Did you see that fight? One never sees those skills these days. Those skills are what enabled James Toney to beat Jirov(who is much bigger) and enable Toney today to compete at heavyweight.

When I said some people “can’t fight” it meant mental toughness and the intangibles. Like James Toney himself said “I was born a fighter”. Boxing is rough, even if you took all those football players had them when they were young that still wouldn’t guarantee that they would still be boxing as they got older much less turn out to be great pros. We will never know probably. but boxing and mma are sports where I think most people cannot do at a high level for long, regardless of great physical skills. Just cannot manufacture fighters. Football players naybe. Maybe I’ll get alot of criticism for that.

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An unphotoshopped weigh in photo.

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[quote]Mike Sullivan wrote:
An unphotoshopped weigh in photo.[/quote]

Gracie doesn’t look all that bad. Still very skinny, but more muscular than when he was a young fighter. I look for it to be a good fight.

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[quote]A-Town Crown wrote:
eqpfunk wrote:
LOL, Roids Gracie vs. AIDS victim Hughes.

Wow! that picture is amazing. He really does look like an AIDS victim. I think Royce might have this one after seeing that picture. [/quote]

LOL, it’s a photoshop man.

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I see. Hughes has huge forearms, way bigger than Royces. Couldn’t figure that one out.

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Welp, looks like royce got manhandled, as expected. Going forward, I feel we need to start a Hughes vs. St. Pierre thread.