Fighting Basics

Training
21

[quote]666Rich wrote:

If you want to learn self defense…do so…but you arent gonna learn stuff from books or videos. If you do get into a fight, it should really only be a life or death situation…so i would suggest carrying pepper spray, a knife, or a gun…and using them only if you have to. Otherwise ALWAYS walk away.[/quote]

Well, to a degree I disagree with this.

Self-defense actually is the kind of thing you can learn from books and videos. You can’t learn how to fight from books or videos, but you can definitely pick up things like how to spot a pincer movement, how to see a crime coming, what to do in what neighborhood, etc. from books.

The trick is going out on your own and practicing it so that when the time comes, you know that the shadow you’re looking at is not in fact the shadow of a tree, but that of a guy, or that a car parked on the street right next to the sidewalk creates a perfect bottleneck for a crime to take place.

It may also help you begin realizing the difference between self-defense and streetfighting and what to avoid and what to be wary of.

22

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
I heart Robert A.

the stupids rule makes for complications

work and family can be stupid
[/quote]

What if you yourself are stupid? Complicated indeed.[/quote]

see-
complications abound

23

[quote]Ghost16 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I know you’re telling me not to go to bars but I like my social life. I’m not gunna sit at home while all my friends go out without me lol. I’m 22 years old and single I like to get drunk on the weekends.

The last time I almost got in a fight was when the ex boyfriend of a girl I was hanging out with showed up. That’s not exactly something I was planning on lol and I don’t feel like I should have to leave when I’m having a good time just because of this asshole.
[/quote]

Those are decisions that you have to make for yourself. All we are saying is that you need to be aware that there are consequences for your decisions/actions.

The smartest/safest/most high percentage method of surviving a violent encounter is to never get into one in the first place. For some people who live in high crime areas this might not be possible. But if you are willfully going to places where you know that fights are a common occurrence, then you only have yourself to blame should you find yourself in a fight. If you don’t want to listen to that advice, fine, don’t, but don’t go blaming anyone else when you find yourself in trouble.

The same is true of responding to a challenge or some “asshole ex boyfriend”. The smartest thing to do is to just walk away/leave (in the vast majority of cases anyhow). If your pride/ego is telling you that you shouldn’t have to, then that’s a decision who’s consequences you will have to live with (hopefully). Going and learning combative skills is only going to teach you better ways to find yourself arrested for assault and battery if you don’t also learn when it’s appropriate to use them.

24

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]666Rich wrote:

If you want to learn self defense…do so…but you arent gonna learn stuff from books or videos. If you do get into a fight, it should really only be a life or death situation…so i would suggest carrying pepper spray, a knife, or a gun…and using them only if you have to. Otherwise ALWAYS walk away.[/quote]

Well, to a degree I disagree with this.

Self-defense actually is the kind of thing you can learn from books and videos. You can’t learn how to fight from books or videos, but you can definitely pick up things like how to spot a pincer movement, how to see a crime coming, what to do in what neighborhood, etc. from books.

The trick is going out on your own and practicing it so that when the time comes, you know that the shadow you’re looking at is not in fact the shadow of a tree, but that of a guy, or that a car parked on the street right next to the sidewalk creates a perfect bottleneck for a crime to take place.

It may also help you begin realizing the difference between self-defense and streetfighting and what to avoid and what to be wary of.
[/quote]

A valid point, to which I will agree. I guess my intention was related to fighting techniques IE learning to box only from jack dempseys manual or such. With regards to analyzing people, their behaviors and intentions…yes I would say you are correct.

25

[quote]666Rich wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]666Rich wrote:

If you want to learn self defense…do so…but you arent gonna learn stuff from books or videos. If you do get into a fight, it should really only be a life or death situation…so i would suggest carrying pepper spray, a knife, or a gun…and using them only if you have to. Otherwise ALWAYS walk away.[/quote]

Well, to a degree I disagree with this.

Self-defense actually is the kind of thing you can learn from books and videos. You can’t learn how to fight from books or videos, but you can definitely pick up things like how to spot a pincer movement, how to see a crime coming, what to do in what neighborhood, etc. from books.

The trick is going out on your own and practicing it so that when the time comes, you know that the shadow you’re looking at is not in fact the shadow of a tree, but that of a guy, or that a car parked on the street right next to the sidewalk creates a perfect bottleneck for a crime to take place.

It may also help you begin realizing the difference between self-defense and streetfighting and what to avoid and what to be wary of.
[/quote]

A valid point, to which I will agree. I guess my intention was related to fighting techniques IE learning to box only from jack dempseys manual or such. With regards to analyzing people, their behaviors and intentions…yes I would say you are correct.
[/quote]

You guys are both right.

There is cerebral self defense which can be learned from watching videos and reading book/articles, and there is physical self defense which must be learned through actual physical application and from a qualified instructor. Both are important, but in many cases the cerebral stuff is actually more beneficial because it can allow you to avoid the need for physical self defense if applied correctly.

26

[quote]666Rich wrote:
. I guess my intention was related to fighting techniques IE learning to box only from jack dempseys manual or such.
[/quote]

LOL.

And WHO would ever do such a thing??

27

[quote]Ghost16 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I know you’re telling me not to go to bars but I like my social life. I’m not gunna sit at home while all my friends go out without me lol. I’m 22 years old and single I like to get drunk on the weekends.

The last time I almost got in a fight was when the ex boyfriend of a girl I was hanging out with showed up. That’s not exactly something I was planning on lol and I don’t feel like I should have to leave when I’m having a good time just because of this asshole.
[/quote]

I like half the places everyone is telling you not to go to. When I was younger I liked all the places. If you stay aware you can go and still avoid the bullshit, if you don’t stay aware then you wouldn’t make much of a great fighter. Like you said you almost got into a fight not you got into one. If the ex really wanted to fight you he would’ve walked in the bar weapon in hand or his peeps with him. Either way you could’ve avoided it. Most of the damaging dumb situations started out that way, you can see them from an hour away. When things get dumb start trying to move your crew out.

You seem pretty smart if you do learn to fight becareful because the first few months can be dangerous since you’ll probably think your more prepared than you are for a fight and start engagining in them.

28

Ghost what size was this guy who started on you? From your description you are a big guy and judging by the weight you lift, your body is rock solid for 230 pounds; I am just over your weight and lifting less than u so I have a good idea of this. Surely anyone with half a brain, drunk or not drunk would know not to mess with someone who can rip their head off. Now I know that its not all about sheer size and strength because fighting skill is more important but people can’t judge your fighting ability by looking at you. Being well developped is a big warning sign to most people.

Do you sometimes try and use your imposing appearance to avoid conflict? I try to and sometimes it even works without trying which is a nice added bonus. What really pisses me off though is guys who like to pick on the big guy but to be fair this has not happened to me much thank god.

It amazes me when young guys get drunk and think they can take on the world. My friend lifts weights and hes not huge but he is 200 pounds and lean. The exact same situation happened to him with his girlfriends ex. This guy was under 150 pounds and had a pidgeon chest and skinny pipecleaner arms and no fighting skill yet he still thought it was a good idea to start on someone who was not only way heavier than him but had big defined arms busting out of his shirt and for all he knew could be a trained fighter. I can never understand this. Basically my friend didn’t want to cause a scene but ended up shoving him into a wall because he would not get out of his face.

The advice to stay away from bars and drunks is good advice, I have not had any problems in a long time since I stopped all the mad nights out and I don’t miss it. At your age though I would have been out and would have thought it strange that anyone would tell me it was a bad idea. But thats life!

29

[quote]Ghost16 wrote:
I’m not sure if a thread like this has been created before but I want to know what are some good sources (websites, video series) to learn basic self defense and fighting skills. I’ve never been in a fight before but in the past few months I’ve found myself in more than one precarious situation. Always at bars.

I’m not interested in being a fighting champion just want the reassurance that if things do go bad at some point I won’t be completely clueless as to what to do. I have access to a punching bag and speed bag.

Not sure if this makes a difference but I’m a decently sized guy (weight 230 with a 345 bench press and a 515 deadlift)

thanks for the help![/quote]

The thing is,the fight is a fight.Its not what someone wants it to be.The fight between 2 individuals is an event where at least one one them is getting hurt badly.You can never be prepered for a fight.Its like a car accident.
And its not fair.
With your size you might be able to push smaller/weaker people around until some small ferocious man comes at you with knife.Or pistol.Throw in your opponents buddies or police for a good measure.
Live by the sword and die by sword! :))

30

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Leave the bar before the fight starts… Bar fights are not regular fights you might be winning and get hit by a random drunk girl who got excited and decided to throw a bottle in the air. Or some dude that thinks he’s strong because he can pick up a chair and flings it across the room. You may even get hit by your own friends as they are swinging.

Look for a free trial at a fight school. Videos don’t teach you how to throw a punch when you just got sucker punched in a face.[/quote]

Great post.

31

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Yeah best advice ever is don’t go to bars or a hooker house. Stay away from degenerates and you wont have to deal with thier crap.[/quote]

Dont go to bars or hooker house??!! And do what? Jerk off to internet porn?? And live a long, boring ascetic life??

32

;))

33

[quote]ballbagbaggins wrote:
Ghost what size was this guy who started on you? From your description you are a big guy and judging by the weight you lift, your body is rock solid for 230 pounds; I am just over your weight and lifting less than u so I have a good idea of this. Surely anyone with half a brain, drunk or not drunk would know not to mess with someone who can rip their head off. Now I know that its not all about sheer size and strength because fighting skill is more important but people can’t judge your fighting ability by looking at you. Being well developped is a big warning sign to most people.

Do you sometimes try and use your imposing appearance to avoid conflict? I try to and sometimes it even works without trying which is a nice added bonus. What really pisses me off though is guys who like to pick on the big guy but to be fair this has not happened to me much thank god.

It amazes me when young guys get drunk and think they can take on the world. My friend lifts weights and hes not huge but he is 200 pounds and lean. The exact same situation happened to him with his girlfriends ex. This guy was under 150 pounds and had a pidgeon chest and skinny pipecleaner arms and no fighting skill yet he still thought it was a good idea to start on someone who was not only way heavier than him but had big defined arms busting out of his shirt and for all he knew could be a trained fighter. I can never understand this. Basically my friend didn’t want to cause a scene but ended up shoving him into a wall because he would not get out of his face.

The advice to stay away from bars and drunks is good advice, I have not had any problems in a long time since I stopped all the mad nights out and I don’t miss it. At your age though I would have been out and would have thought it strange that anyone would tell me it was a bad idea. But thats life![/quote]

Like Balbos said, never, NEVER judge the guy in the street by his size.

Two of the most brutal streetfighters I ever met were under 5’5. One was mostly fat while the other was skinny as fuck.

BOTH of them would have stabbed you as soon as look at you.

Don’t get into this big guy way of thinking where they say, “This little guy is starting trouble with me, he doesn’t know what he’s in for.”

If he’s starting trouble with you, odds are he knows exactly what he’s in for, and he’s stacked the deck accordingly. Just like how you think you have by being large.

Just a piece of advice.

34

Since your life depends on going to bars, simply NEVER go there unarmed!
I recommend swords, take at least half a dozen with you when going out; when shopping for groceries, three to four swords, strapped to hips, arms and forehead will suffice.

This way your enemy will never be able to unarm you.

Also, everybody will think you’re a dangerous loon and avoid you.

35

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]ballbagbaggins wrote:
Ghost what size was this guy who started on you? From your description you are a big guy and judging by the weight you lift, your body is rock solid for 230 pounds; I am just over your weight and lifting less than u so I have a good idea of this. Surely anyone with half a brain, drunk or not drunk would know not to mess with someone who can rip their head off. Now I know that its not all about sheer size and strength because fighting skill is more important but people can’t judge your fighting ability by looking at you. Being well developped is a big warning sign to most people.

Do you sometimes try and use your imposing appearance to avoid conflict? I try to and sometimes it even works without trying which is a nice added bonus. What really pisses me off though is guys who like to pick on the big guy but to be fair this has not happened to me much thank god.

It amazes me when young guys get drunk and think they can take on the world. My friend lifts weights and hes not huge but he is 200 pounds and lean. The exact same situation happened to him with his girlfriends ex. This guy was under 150 pounds and had a pidgeon chest and skinny pipecleaner arms and no fighting skill yet he still thought it was a good idea to start on someone who was not only way heavier than him but had big defined arms busting out of his shirt and for all he knew could be a trained fighter. I can never understand this. Basically my friend didn’t want to cause a scene but ended up shoving him into a wall because he would not get out of his face.

The advice to stay away from bars and drunks is good advice, I have not had any problems in a long time since I stopped all the mad nights out and I don’t miss it. At your age though I would have been out and would have thought it strange that anyone would tell me it was a bad idea. But thats life![/quote]

Like Balbos said, never, NEVER judge the guy in the street by his size.

Two of the most brutal streetfighters I ever met were under 5’5. One was mostly fat while the other was skinny as fuck.

BOTH of them would have stabbed you as soon as look at you.

Don’t get into this big guy way of thinking where they say, “This little guy is starting trouble with me, he doesn’t know what he’s in for.”

If he’s starting trouble with you, odds are he knows exactly what he’s in for, and he’s stacked the deck accordingly. Just like how you think you have by being large.

Just a piece of advice.
[/quote]

Chances are that big muscular guys,lets say over 220lb.,are not spending over 20 hours a week sparring,wrestling,hitting the bag and doing conditioning and learning skills.
And all these wonderfull criminal street-predators are too busy doing sniff and hitting casinos instead of bulking up.So they ll either pull out pistol or knife or gang up.
Size is not relevant in this game.

36

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]ballbagbaggins wrote:
Ghost what size was this guy who started on you? From your description you are a big guy and judging by the weight you lift, your body is rock solid for 230 pounds; I am just over your weight and lifting less than u so I have a good idea of this. Surely anyone with half a brain, drunk or not drunk would know not to mess with someone who can rip their head off. Now I know that its not all about sheer size and strength because fighting skill is more important but people can’t judge your fighting ability by looking at you. Being well developped is a big warning sign to most people.

Do you sometimes try and use your imposing appearance to avoid conflict? I try to and sometimes it even works without trying which is a nice added bonus. What really pisses me off though is guys who like to pick on the big guy but to be fair this has not happened to me much thank god.

It amazes me when young guys get drunk and think they can take on the world. My friend lifts weights and hes not huge but he is 200 pounds and lean. The exact same situation happened to him with his girlfriends ex. This guy was under 150 pounds and had a pidgeon chest and skinny pipecleaner arms and no fighting skill yet he still thought it was a good idea to start on someone who was not only way heavier than him but had big defined arms busting out of his shirt and for all he knew could be a trained fighter. I can never understand this. Basically my friend didn’t want to cause a scene but ended up shoving him into a wall because he would not get out of his face.

The advice to stay away from bars and drunks is good advice, I have not had any problems in a long time since I stopped all the mad nights out and I don’t miss it. At your age though I would have been out and would have thought it strange that anyone would tell me it was a bad idea. But thats life![/quote]

Like Balbos said, never, NEVER judge the guy in the street by his size.

Two of the most brutal streetfighters I ever met were under 5’5. One was mostly fat while the other was skinny as fuck.

BOTH of them would have stabbed you as soon as look at you.

Don’t get into this big guy way of thinking where they say, “This little guy is starting trouble with me, he doesn’t know what he’s in for.”

If he’s starting trouble with you, odds are he knows exactly what he’s in for, and he’s stacked the deck accordingly. Just like how you think you have by being large.

Just a piece of advice.
[/quote]

Chances are that big muscular guys,lets say over 220lb.,are not spending over 20 hours a week sparring,wrestling,hitting the bag and doing conditioning and learning skills.
And all these wonderfull criminal street-predators are too busy doing sniff and hitting casinos instead of bulking up.So they ll either pull out pistol or knife or gang up.
Size is not relevant in this game.[/quote]

^ I’m not totally clear on what you’re saying here, but I just wanted to mention this for the OP and any of the younger guys following this. I’ve said it in another thread, but I think it bears repeating. PLENTY of our local scumbags are really skilled MMA guys who train 3-5x per week and supplement with “reality based” training on weekends. By this I mean that they go to the bars/clubs and pick fights with college kids who don’t know enough to stay out of their way. In the unlikely event that one of these kids holds his own, yeah he will likely get stabbed/suckered from behind and boot-fucked.

Regarding size, these guys are not generally 220+, but plenty of them are fairly jacked/ripped at 175-195, supplemented with vitamin “S” and more than capable of handing a much larger guy his own ass. Especially when you factor in the stabbiness/multiple assailant angles and the fact that these guys live with real violence all the time.

When they do get pinched and end up in jail for a bit, the just come out bigger and meaner than they were when they went in. This is a result of spending a few months doing nothing but eating, sleeping, lifting and scrapping with other jacked up scumbags day in day out. In between they’ll spend some quality time swapping dirty tricks for getting over on cops, CO’s, and the the suckers they beat down on the “streetz”.

Just yesterday where I live a 20 yr old kid in from out of town and beloved of all who knew him died from injuries resulting from an “altercation” of some kind at bar close the night before. I do not suggest getting into shit at the club, regardless of how big/strong you think you are. It’s just a bad idea.

37

OP- I hate to say it but If your really looking into books and websites to help with self defense it wont do you a lick of good. The only reason I say that is no matter how much you read or study youll go blank when hands start to fly (if your not trained in a fighting discipline). There are 3 simple pieces of advice that ive followed, are easy to remember, and have made it so I havent wound up on my back in the middle of the street/bar…so far haha.

1-Keep your chin down
2- Throw first
3- You never know what the guy/guys across from you is willing to do. If your willing to get into it you better be willing to go farther than he is, and live with the consequences.

Beyond that if your serious about self defense, join a gym, whether its boxing, muay-thai, kickboxing, etc. It could be fun and bring some variation into your lifting/lifestyle.

38

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]ballbagbaggins wrote:
Ghost what size was this guy who started on you? From your description you are a big guy and judging by the weight you lift, your body is rock solid for 230 pounds; I am just over your weight and lifting less than u so I have a good idea of this. Surely anyone with half a brain, drunk or not drunk would know not to mess with someone who can rip their head off. Now I know that its not all about sheer size and strength because fighting skill is more important but people can’t judge your fighting ability by looking at you. Being well developped is a big warning sign to most people.

Do you sometimes try and use your imposing appearance to avoid conflict? I try to and sometimes it even works without trying which is a nice added bonus. What really pisses me off though is guys who like to pick on the big guy but to be fair this has not happened to me much thank god.

It amazes me when young guys get drunk and think they can take on the world. My friend lifts weights and hes not huge but he is 200 pounds and lean. The exact same situation happened to him with his girlfriends ex. This guy was under 150 pounds and had a pidgeon chest and skinny pipecleaner arms and no fighting skill yet he still thought it was a good idea to start on someone who was not only way heavier than him but had big defined arms busting out of his shirt and for all he knew could be a trained fighter. I can never understand this. Basically my friend didn’t want to cause a scene but ended up shoving him into a wall because he would not get out of his face.

The advice to stay away from bars and drunks is good advice, I have not had any problems in a long time since I stopped all the mad nights out and I don’t miss it. At your age though I would have been out and would have thought it strange that anyone would tell me it was a bad idea. But thats life![/quote]

Like Balbos said, never, NEVER judge the guy in the street by his size.

Two of the most brutal streetfighters I ever met were under 5’5. One was mostly fat while the other was skinny as fuck.

BOTH of them would have stabbed you as soon as look at you.

Don’t get into this big guy way of thinking where they say, “This little guy is starting trouble with me, he doesn’t know what he’s in for.”

If he’s starting trouble with you, odds are he knows exactly what he’s in for, and he’s stacked the deck accordingly. Just like how you think you have by being large.

Just a piece of advice.
[/quote]

Chances are that big muscular guys,lets say over 220lb.,are not spending over 20 hours a week sparring,wrestling,hitting the bag and doing conditioning and learning skills.
And all these wonderfull criminal street-predators are too busy doing sniff and hitting casinos instead of bulking up.So they ll either pull out pistol or knife or gang up.
Size is not relevant in this game.[/quote]

^ I’m not totally clear on what you’re saying here, but I just wanted to mention this for the OP and any of the younger guys following this. I’ve said it in another thread, but I think it bears repeating. PLENTY of our local scumbags are really skilled MMA guys who train 3-5x per week and supplement with “reality based” training on weekends. By this I mean that they go to the bars/clubs and pick fights with college kids who don’t know enough to stay out of their way. In the unlikely event that one of these kids holds his own, yeah he will likely get stabbed/suckered from behind and boot-fucked.

Regarding size, these guys are not generally 220+, but plenty of them are fairly jacked/ripped at 175-195, supplemented with vitamin “S” and more than capable of handing a much larger guy his own ass. Especially when you factor in the stabbiness/multiple assailant angles and the fact that these guys live with real violence all the time.

When they do get pinched and end up in jail for a bit, the just come out bigger and meaner than they were when they went in. This is a result of spending a few months doing nothing but eating, sleeping, lifting and scrapping with other jacked up scumbags day in day out. In between they’ll spend some quality time swapping dirty tricks for getting over on cops, CO’s, and the the suckers they beat down on the “streetz”.

Just yesterday where I live a 20 yr old kid in from out of town and beloved of all who knew him died from injuries resulting from an “altercation” of some kind at bar close the night before. I do not suggest getting into shit at the club, regardless of how big/strong you think you are. It’s just a bad idea.[/quote]

Great post.
Just want to add that even if a college kid would somehow win,it could mean that those scumbags could pay him a home visit.
Some of these guys looking for fights were fighting /surviving on the streets/behind the bars since they were 12.They are tough as nails.

39

[quote]Ler012 wrote:
OP- I hate to say it but If your really looking into books and websites to help with self defense it wont do you a lick of good. The only reason I say that is no matter how much you read or study youll go blank when hands start to fly (if your not trained in a fighting discipline). There are 3 simple pieces of advice that ive followed, are easy to remember, and have made it so I havent wound up on my back in the middle of the street/bar…so far haha.

1-Keep your chin down
2- Throw first
3- You never know what the guy/guys across from you is willing to do. If your willing to get into it you better be willing to go farther than he is, and live with the consequences.

Beyond that if your serious about self defense, join a gym, whether its boxing, muay-thai, kickboxing, etc. It could be fun and bring some variation into your lifting/lifestyle.[/quote]

Great advices.

40

Whatever way you look at it its an impossible situation.

You throw first you run the risk of being blamed for starting it and may be in trouble with the cops when you didn’t really start it.

If you don’t throw first then you are at an immediate disadvantage even in a 1 on 1.

If its not 1 on 1 and you are outnumbered then you are again at a disadvantage and maybe only know of 1 or 2 of the people you are going to be fighting. If you are a good fighter and they hit you first and you manage to knock out one and grapple the other then it is not a pleasant surprise to find out 3 of his friends just noticed you attacking their group.

As mentioned before there may be weapons involved and other variables and while you may be willing to hit the guy a few times to get your point across, you may need to go a lot further to put an end to the fight.

When you think about it like this then theres really no point leaving a chance for conflict on a night out. There are groups of individuals out there who would gladly fight several big guys at once for a buzz at the weekend so better not to fall into their trap and be caught off-guard as much as you can help it. Even if you win, you can still be badly hurt and face prosecution.