[quote]Irish Daza wrote:
How do you compare punches from guys of different size and weight?
[/quote]
…easily? You measure the force produced over the time of contact, or whichever specific variables you’re interested in.
We can do it, we have the technology…
-Dan
Size matters…
Technique matters…
Experience matters…
Agression matters…
A lot of things matter, you can’t disregard either size OR technique. But the ordinary runn of the mill McDojo-blackbelts wouldn’t stand a chance, eod.
[quote]Jack_Dempsey wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
supermonkey wrote:
treco wrote:
Like Bruce Lee said, “Boards, don’t hit back.”
BTW what was the result of UFC 8 David vs. Goliath?
I don’t remember all of the fights on that card, but the David’s held their own.
Don Frye (205 lbs) knocked out 410 lb Thomas Ramirez (who was supposed to be 200-0 on the streets, or some ludicrous bullshit) in 8 seconds.
200 lb. Jerry Bohlander submitted 250 lb. “Big Daddy” Gary Goodrich.
205 lb. Ken Shamrock (back when he wasn’t embarrassing) defeated 260 lbs (and ripped) Kimo fairly easily.
I don’t remember the rest.
[/quote]
I’m sorry… but 200lbs is now considered a “David?” Wow, i’m closer to being a scrawny runt then i thought!
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
FredShamrock wrote:
Hekk wrote:
About the 600 bencher, look at David “Tank” Abbott.
He did bench 600 pounds raw. Although he was a strong striker he wasn’t the best.
There is more to fighting than pure strenght.
He didn’t bench 600 raw. There were a lot of fake plates on that bar.
I hope you’re joking. Watch that clip, the bar is bending.
[/quote]
I have no idea whether the plates were fake or not, but I do know that a cheap bar will bend with 400 lbs on it.
[quote]ScrambyEggs wrote:
Jack_Dempsey wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
supermonkey wrote:
treco wrote:
Like Bruce Lee said, “Boards, don’t hit back.”
BTW what was the result of UFC 8 David vs. Goliath?
I don’t remember all of the fights on that card, but the David’s held their own.
Don Frye (205 lbs) knocked out 410 lb Thomas Ramirez (who was supposed to be 200-0 on the streets, or some ludicrous bullshit) in 8 seconds.
200 lb. Jerry Bohlander submitted 250 lb. “Big Daddy” Gary Goodrich.
205 lb. Ken Shamrock (back when he wasn’t embarrassing) defeated 260 lbs (and ripped) Kimo fairly easily.
I don’t remember the rest.
I’m sorry… but 200lbs is now considered a “David?” Wow, i’m closer to being a scrawny runt then i thought!
[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing…this is a fairly poor example of small guys beating up big guys
So measuring the force exerted by a 5’1", 150lb guy against that of a 6’ 4", 240lb guy is a fair comparison of their respective techniques?
That’s what they did on the show. No modifier for respective size and weight.
[quote]Jack_Dempsey wrote:
I don’t remember all of the fights on that card, but the David’s held their own.
Don Frye (205 lbs) knocked out 410 lb Thomas Ramirez (who was supposed to be 200-0 on the streets, or some ludicrous bullshit) in 8 seconds.
200 lb. Jerry Bohlander submitted 250 lb. “Big Daddy” Gary Goodrich.
205 lb. Ken Shamrock (back when he wasn’t embarrassing) defeated 260 lbs (and ripped) Kimo fairly easily.
I don’t remember the rest.
[/quote]
I don’t remember it all either but you are wrong about Gary Goodridge. Gary Goodridge exploded Bohlander’s head with elbows after he put him in a crucifix.
Especially since the final was Gary Goodridge vs. Don Frye with Don Frye winning.
I also wouldn’t say Shamrock beat Kimo fairly easily. He did in their rematch when he KO’d him with a knee but in that fight (if I remember correctly) Shamrock’s face took a beating but he ended up with a heel hook.
Also here is info about it except (sadly) no weights or of course any desc. or skills of the fighters. UFC 8 - Wikipedia
For instance Gary Goodridge wore a Kuk Sool Won Gi and, I believe, blackbelt but was NOT a Kuk Sool Won practitioner.
[quote]supermonkey wrote:
Jack_Dempsey wrote:
I don’t remember all of the fights on that card, but the David’s held their own.
Don Frye (205 lbs) knocked out 410 lb Thomas Ramirez (who was supposed to be 200-0 on the streets, or some ludicrous bullshit) in 8 seconds.
200 lb. Jerry Bohlander submitted 250 lb. “Big Daddy” Gary Goodrich.
205 lb. Ken Shamrock (back when he wasn’t embarrassing) defeated 260 lbs (and ripped) Kimo fairly easily.
I don’t remember the rest.
I don’t remember it all either but you are wrong about Gary Goodridge. Gary Goodridge exploded Bohlander’s head with elbows after he put him in a crucifix.
Especially since the final was Gary Goodridge vs. Don Frye with Don Frye winning.
I also wouldn’t say Shamrock beat Kimo fairly easily. He did in their rematch when he KO’d him with a knee but in that fight (if I remember correctly) Shamrock’s face took a beating but he ended up with a heel hook.
Also here is info about it except (sadly) no weights or of course any desc. or skills of the fighters. UFC 8 - Wikipedia
For instance Gary Goodridge wore a Kuk Sool Won Gi and, I believe, blackbelt but was NOT a Kuk Sool Won practitioner.
[/quote]
I still think Gary Goodridge killed that guy. It’s a cover up!
[quote]ScrambyEggs wrote:
Jack_Dempsey wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
supermonkey wrote:
treco wrote:
Like Bruce Lee said, “Boards, don’t hit back.”
BTW what was the result of UFC 8 David vs. Goliath?
I don’t remember all of the fights on that card, but the David’s held their own.
Don Frye (205 lbs) knocked out 410 lb Thomas Ramirez (who was supposed to be 200-0 on the streets, or some ludicrous bullshit) in 8 seconds.
200 lb. Jerry Bohlander submitted 250 lb. “Big Daddy” Gary Goodrich.
205 lb. Ken Shamrock (back when he wasn’t embarrassing) defeated 260 lbs (and ripped) Kimo fairly easily.
I don’t remember the rest.
I’m sorry… but 200lbs is now considered a “David?” Wow, i’m closer to being a scrawny runt then i thought!
[/quote]
If you want David vs. Goliath check out Genki Sudo (155 lbs) vs. Butterbean (350 lbs)
… Sudo won btw
[quote]Tallguyy76 wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
The question isn’t wether or not strength is important. It is. Otherwise their wouldn’t be weightclasses. It’s more a question of what’s the cost/benefit analysis of a fighter chasing huge gym numbers. For a fighter wouldn’t the time needed to build a 500 bench press be better spent rolling, sparring or working on things like technique and conditioning? Is the possible increase in size worth moving up a weightclass? The last thing you want to do as a fighter is be pumped up, out of your weightclass and fighting against guys who are naturally bigger and stronger then you are.
Strength is an important foundational quality but it’s only one piece of the complex puzzle of building a fighter. Speed, stamina, agility, technical ability are all as important as strength. Technical ability probably more so. Bob Sapp, Ron Waterman, Kevin Randleman, Jimmy Ambriz, Mark Kerr. I have seen to many big strong guys in MMA who do well against guys they can manhandle quickly but are in trouble if they face a guy who can neutralize or outlast their power.
Athletecism trumps pure strength in most sports other then powerlifting or weightlifting. It’s not just a matter of how much force you can apply it’s also a matter of how fast you can apply it. I’m pretty sure a heavweight boxer can hit much harder and much sharper then a heavyweight powerlifter even though the powerlifter benches more and the boxer probably doesn’t even know what his max bench is.
The diffrence is that the boxer has trained his body to produce force at a much greater rate of force development when he punches then the powerlifter who has trained his body to produce maximal force which takes much longer(in an athletic perspective). Same with grappling. I am fairly certain that Matt Hughes could manhandle a bigger (untrained) man just because of his technical superiority and because he has conditioned his body to deal with the rigors of a continuous bout of isometric pushing and pulling that is grappling.
I also think you misunderstand what is meant buy technique being used to beat a stronger opponent. It’s not about super secret ninja death touches or punches to someones throat or other vulnerable areas. It’s about using angles (as in striking) or leverages (as in grappling)to neutralize or overcome an opponents advantage. If an armbar is applied correctly I don’t care how strong you are it’s goning to be hard to escape because my hips are always going to be much stronger then your bicep. That is technique.
There is something to be said for brute strength though. I have found myself in situations over the years that if I wasn’t 6ft4 and 250 lbs I could have gotten hurt.
[/quote]
Man… this is where I say 'you snatched the words right out of my mouth.
Just 1 thing I dont agree with :
‘Athletecism trumps pure strength in most sports other then powerlifting or weightlifting’ I dont compete in Wt-lifting myself but from what I’ve seen (and unsuccessfully attempted) -this is more of an athletic sport than a st sport.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I think it would be a cool reality show…
Big guys vs. little guys.
I guarantee there are tons of little guys who think they are badass cause they know martial arts and plenty of big guys who think they’re badass because they can throw serious iron around.
Put em in a ring and let em prove who’s right.[/quote]
Actually thats already been done. ITs was called UFC.
Barely any rules. No rounds, no time limit etc.
170lbs Royce won the tournament.
[quote]cirque wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I think it would be a cool reality show…
Big guys vs. little guys.
I guarantee there are tons of little guys who think they are badass cause they know martial arts and plenty of big guys who think they’re badass because they can throw serious iron around.
Put em in a ring and let em prove who’s right.
Actually thats already been done. ITs was called UFC.
Barely any rules. No rounds, no time limit etc.
170lbs Royce won the tournament.[/quote]
Four times.