This conversation is going nowhere haha
Also TBG I think you had a good point when you compared “normal” people and people who grew up/live in areas like Camden…growing up in a little hick town I never doubted my safety walking down the street as a kid, but when I went away to school I was in a more “urban” area and quickly learned that it would just be naive of me not to adopt the mentality you describe. I never looked back haha
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Except in a sales scenario they never really respect you outside of basic business ethics, only your wallet. And they are doing what they do because it significantly increases their closing ratio and consequently wallet size, which is the end game, not your personal respect or friendship. And, if you stiffen up yourself and become the “threatened” douche bag in the process, so be it. Next prospect!
Plus, just like I wrote to BG, you wouldn’t even realize it if it was done right. Just saying.
(Huff and haw, you see right through it and come to your own conclusions, blah blah blah, I see C-level executives and up on a regular, very alpha by nature, and walk out of their “house” time and again with the outcome being pre-planned and executed. So do countless other brokers and high level biz development folks)
[/quote]
Bro, honestly, I don’t know what any of this shit means.
What I can tell you is that I’m a journalist by profession, so if you talked to me and walked away thinking you “won” or “sold” me something, the odds are is you better check your fingers walkin away to make sure your rings are still on your fingers.
There’s a reason people in positions of power- be it financial or political - never like talking to us.
You never out-hustle the hustla.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I also find that when “making a deal” closing in on personal space, when done correctly, is helpful. You bring their gaurd up, break it down, give control of it back to them but own it psychologically. It’s very key.
[/quote]
If you did this to me, I wouldn’t like it and I’d probably not like you after it. And I would be unlikely to do business with you unless I had to. Real talk. You cannot bring my guard up, and bring it back down and/or otherwise “take control”. If you made my guard go up, you are no longer in control of bringing it back down.
Of course, the sheeple of the world may be different, who knows.[/quote]
You can’t win them all.
Any salesman/broker/business developer what have you worth his salt knows that if he isn’t in control he isn’t going to close.
The art of it is breaking down barriers subtly. A shoulder slap with a joke, leaning in to emphasize points and out to relax the tension that always surrounds a purchase agreement et cetera, you don’t start an arm wrestling match or punch him in the face. Unless maybe you are “muscleing” them but I don’t know much about that.
You don’t even realize it’s happening if done right. A bad salesmen can really butcher it though, think used car or door to door insurance. Mis-applied sales psychology 101.
But, if someone is resisting at every turn, you cut your losses and move on, which is the numbers game aspect of it.[/quote]
the minute you invade my personal space in a orchestrated move, you lost me. and I do know when you’re doing it. as I said in another thread; “likeability” is king. you can raise all the BS psychology you want, but people are “closed” upon b/c they like and/or trust someone. any other close is just forced, and will often result in the deal falling thru or no repeat business. if I like you, and I trust you, and you have the product I want, I’m a buyer - and NO amount of “salesmanship 101” can change that algebra. and trust me, if you lean in and invade my space in an orchestrated shoulder slap that is inconsistent with our relationship or the meeting, I think “oily salesman”.
I’m not intending to argue with you, just giving you another perspective which is another tool in your tool box if you’re a smart businessman/salesman 
[/quote]
except its not sales 101. Your space would be invaded while your likeability factor grew. It’s easy to pick sales apart from the back end. You wouldn’t know a good pitch if it slapped you in the face bc it wouldn’t feel like one. Believe all the psychology would be there though, discreetly. A bad pitch with an over eager salesmen leaves you oily. [/quote]
you greatly underestimate me, and perhaps overestimate yourself; I see all the pitches. I think you underestimate other people too.
I recently purchased a car. Guy probably thought he “pitched” and “closed” me. He was the kind of has-been old timer you complained about in another post. I can’t help but to think he was talking up how he “closed the deal with me” to his boss. Fact is, I didn’t like him much, thought he was pathetic in a harmless way, but he had what I needed.
Had. What. I. Needed.
Sometimes you sell in spite of yourself.
[/quote]
I hear what you are saying, I really do. But you are comparing a car salesmen to a money broker who wins contracts from directors and VPs of very large banks, apples and oranges even if both are technically sales.
I do understand the need for likeability, rapport, connection, a solid product fitting a need and the sales psychology that ties in all together for a commitment.
When delivered correctly, the key caveat, your gaurd will be up, down and owned without your knowledge. It’s like voodoo magic shit.
Sometimes people call it, usually sales people themselves. I’m not talking about misplaced and awkard back slaps. Hell a handshake and an offer of a bottle of water starts the process off. Totally subtle.
Just for the sake of interest, because life is a sales game in many ways, you should read books on sales psychology along with your other philosophies. It’s very interesting.
One book I really like, a little around the bush but still relevant, is called The Tipping Point. Was very trendy to read years ago but taps in to the psychology I’m talking about. Very subtle, if done right. If done right. If done…
[/quote]
I read all that shit…my brother is a scientist and professor in that area at an ivy league school and has been published himself.
And my example was just s simple illustration. As a decision maker for much of my career for various services (including everything from law firms nationwide to vendors for claims), I speak of what I know.
‘Sizing’ people up is a totally normal, instinctive survival tool.
What you are referring to sounds more like (what us brits call) ‘staring someone down’, ie, staring at someone you see as a threat in some way or other in an attempt to intimidate them (getting them to look away etc). Passive-aggressive BS like can get in you into a lot of trouble if you do it to the wrong person (whether you do it consciously or not).
Most dudes grow out of the need to stare people down, eventually, you also learn to allow whatever imbicile who is trying to be all macho & intimidating to have their ridiculous little ego trip of thinking they’ve stared you down or whatever.
I’d personally only ever stare someone down if they’d already crossed a line with me.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Except in a sales scenario they never really respect you outside of basic business ethics, only your wallet. And they are doing what they do because it significantly increases their closing ratio and consequently wallet size, which is the end game, not your personal respect or friendship. And, if you stiffen up yourself and become the “threatened” douche bag in the process, so be it. Next prospect!
Plus, just like I wrote to BG, you wouldn’t even realize it if it was done right. Just saying.
(Huff and haw, you see right through it and come to your own conclusions, blah blah blah, I see C-level executives and up on a regular, very alpha by nature, and walk out of their “house” time and again with the outcome being pre-planned and executed. So do countless other brokers and high level biz development folks)
[/quote]
Bro, honestly, I don’t know what any of this shit means.
What I can tell you is that I’m a journalist by profession, so if you talked to me and walked away thinking you “won” or “sold” me something, the odds are is you better check your fingers walkin away to make sure your rings are still on your fingers.
There’s a reason people in positions of power- be it financial or political - never like talking to us.
You never out-hustle the hustla.[/quote]
Pick pocketing/editing conversation to re-shape intent after the fact and getting inside someones head and turning their gears for them in the present are two totally different animals.
You could probably take a note from a good sales professionals book however, unfortunately the turn about would create a skeezy used car salesmen on a small, in-house finance (repo-land) lot.
I’m sure you are fantastic journalist but the sales community agrees, everything I’ve said is true, all others don’t matter. Amirite?
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I also find that when “making a deal” closing in on personal space, when done correctly, is helpful. You bring their gaurd up, break it down, give control of it back to them but own it psychologically. It’s very key.
[/quote]
If you did this to me, I wouldn’t like it and I’d probably not like you after it. And I would be unlikely to do business with you unless I had to. Real talk. You cannot bring my guard up, and bring it back down and/or otherwise “take control”. If you made my guard go up, you are no longer in control of bringing it back down.
Of course, the sheeple of the world may be different, who knows.[/quote]
You can’t win them all.
Any salesman/broker/business developer what have you worth his salt knows that if he isn’t in control he isn’t going to close.
The art of it is breaking down barriers subtly. A shoulder slap with a joke, leaning in to emphasize points and out to relax the tension that always surrounds a purchase agreement et cetera, you don’t start an arm wrestling match or punch him in the face. Unless maybe you are “muscleing” them but I don’t know much about that.
You don’t even realize it’s happening if done right. A bad salesmen can really butcher it though, think used car or door to door insurance. Mis-applied sales psychology 101.
But, if someone is resisting at every turn, you cut your losses and move on, which is the numbers game aspect of it.[/quote]
the minute you invade my personal space in a orchestrated move, you lost me. and I do know when you’re doing it. as I said in another thread; “likeability” is king. you can raise all the BS psychology you want, but people are “closed” upon b/c they like and/or trust someone. any other close is just forced, and will often result in the deal falling thru or no repeat business. if I like you, and I trust you, and you have the product I want, I’m a buyer - and NO amount of “salesmanship 101” can change that algebra. and trust me, if you lean in and invade my space in an orchestrated shoulder slap that is inconsistent with our relationship or the meeting, I think “oily salesman”.
I’m not intending to argue with you, just giving you another perspective which is another tool in your tool box if you’re a smart businessman/salesman
[/quote]
BG is this a age thing? You are just a few years older than me but I look at this the way you do. I have for the past two years had to learn sales/business (medical aspect) with no formal training and trial and error. So interested in both of your viewpoints.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
In every social situation outside my own home, I’m always alert and aware of my surroundings. I size up everyone, yet do not show a thing on the outside.
Second nature.
[/quote]
It certainly should be. [/quote]
Exactly. But you’d be surprised at the lax attitude some people have regarding their own safety. In a past thread there were those who even labeled it “paranoid” to be so overly aware.
[/quote]
That’s why people like that get jumped, attacked and taken advantage of everyday. Only an idiot wouldn’t size people and situations up. But as was stated, when you get older it’s much more subtle. You probably would seem aloof to a casual observer.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I also find that when “making a deal” closing in on personal space, when done correctly, is helpful. You bring their gaurd up, break it down, give control of it back to them but own it psychologically. It’s very key.
[/quote]
If you did this to me, I wouldn’t like it and I’d probably not like you after it. And I would be unlikely to do business with you unless I had to. Real talk. You cannot bring my guard up, and bring it back down and/or otherwise “take control”. If you made my guard go up, you are no longer in control of bringing it back down.
Of course, the sheeple of the world may be different, who knows.[/quote]
You can’t win them all.
Any salesman/broker/business developer what have you worth his salt knows that if he isn’t in control he isn’t going to close.
The art of it is breaking down barriers subtly. A shoulder slap with a joke, leaning in to emphasize points and out to relax the tension that always surrounds a purchase agreement et cetera, you don’t start an arm wrestling match or punch him in the face. Unless maybe you are “muscleing” them but I don’t know much about that.
You don’t even realize it’s happening if done right. A bad salesmen can really butcher it though, think used car or door to door insurance. Mis-applied sales psychology 101.
But, if someone is resisting at every turn, you cut your losses and move on, which is the numbers game aspect of it.[/quote]
the minute you invade my personal space in a orchestrated move, you lost me. and I do know when you’re doing it. as I said in another thread; “likeability” is king. you can raise all the BS psychology you want, but people are “closed” upon b/c they like and/or trust someone. any other close is just forced, and will often result in the deal falling thru or no repeat business. if I like you, and I trust you, and you have the product I want, I’m a buyer - and NO amount of “salesmanship 101” can change that algebra. and trust me, if you lean in and invade my space in an orchestrated shoulder slap that is inconsistent with our relationship or the meeting, I think “oily salesman”.
I’m not intending to argue with you, just giving you another perspective which is another tool in your tool box if you’re a smart businessman/salesman
[/quote]
BG is this a age thing? You are just a few years older than me but I look at this the way you do. I have for the past two years had to learn sales/business (medical aspect) with no formal training and trial and error. So interested in both of your viewpoints.
[/quote]People have to like you, unless you are an approved vendor to a business based on pricing/availability and then it doesn’t matter, you sell in spite of yourself.
You do have to be likeable, absolutely. Being likeable is a part of the overall psychology that goes in to a sale (read: rapport), as is controlling the conversation, filling a need, delivering as promised and following up.
Being likeable is just one deliberate aspect of closing a deal, any deal. And again, if done right, nodoby knows it’s a deliberate, orchestrated move.
The ability to pitch without raising a prospects shackles and alarming sensibilities or not is why some sales people scrape by and others make more money than would be believed, across all industries.
Car salesmen, engineering services and equipment, insurance, financial brokerage, real estate…
top performers can show and close sales bottom performers don’t. Same product, same process… Part of it is they’ve nailed likeability, along with the rest of the psychology. They can be conversationl, very relaxed, yet still get info by asking questions to use it later to be likeable.
It feels like a friendly conversation between two dudes who seem to hit it off, but the salesmen is very deliberately building “rapport”. The very nature of asking questions lets peoples gaurd down whether they realize it or not (people love talking about themselves, there is plenty of psychological research demonstrating the efficacy of allowing people to feel in control by letting them talk), and allows the sales person to qualify them, find their ‘buttons’ and be in their head.
Simultaneous likeable and pre-planned salesmanship.
They are every prospects best friend, it’s like hitting on women. Some call your bullshit, most don’t… if done right.
It doesn’t have anything to do with age. In fact, old school sales manuals, books and tapes are very much psychology 101, say this to close that, use inflection and tone here but not there et cetera. Helpful tools but the “relationship” type sale is a product of Generation Yours Truly.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I also find that when “making a deal” closing in on personal space, when done correctly, is helpful. You bring their gaurd up, break it down, give control of it back to them but own it psychologically. It’s very key.
[/quote]
If you did this to me, I wouldn’t like it and I’d probably not like you after it. And I would be unlikely to do business with you unless I had to. Real talk. You cannot bring my guard up, and bring it back down and/or otherwise “take control”. If you made my guard go up, you are no longer in control of bringing it back down.
Of course, the sheeple of the world may be different, who knows.[/quote]
You can’t win them all.
Any salesman/broker/business developer what have you worth his salt knows that if he isn’t in control he isn’t going to close.
The art of it is breaking down barriers subtly. A shoulder slap with a joke, leaning in to emphasize points and out to relax the tension that always surrounds a purchase agreement et cetera, you don’t start an arm wrestling match or punch him in the face. Unless maybe you are “muscleing” them but I don’t know much about that.
You don’t even realize it’s happening if done right. A bad salesmen can really butcher it though, think used car or door to door insurance. Mis-applied sales psychology 101.
But, if someone is resisting at every turn, you cut your losses and move on, which is the numbers game aspect of it.[/quote]
the minute you invade my personal space in a orchestrated move, you lost me. and I do know when you’re doing it. as I said in another thread; “likeability” is king. you can raise all the BS psychology you want, but people are “closed” upon b/c they like and/or trust someone. any other close is just forced, and will often result in the deal falling thru or no repeat business. if I like you, and I trust you, and you have the product I want, I’m a buyer - and NO amount of “salesmanship 101” can change that algebra. and trust me, if you lean in and invade my space in an orchestrated shoulder slap that is inconsistent with our relationship or the meeting, I think “oily salesman”.
I’m not intending to argue with you, just giving you another perspective which is another tool in your tool box if you’re a smart businessman/salesman
[/quote]
BG is this a age thing? You are just a few years older than me but I look at this the way you do. I have for the past two years had to learn sales/business (medical aspect) with no formal training and trial and error. So interested in both of your viewpoints.
[/quote]People have to like you, unless you are an approved vendor to a business based on pricing/availability and then it doesn’t matter, you sell in spite of yourself.
You do have to be likeable, absolutely. Being likeable is a part of the overall psychology that goes in to a sale (read: rapport), as is controlling the conversation, filling a need, delivering as promised and following up.
Being likeable is just one deliberate aspect of closing a deal, any deal. And again, if done right, nodoby knows it’s a deliberate, orchestrated move.
The ability to pitch without raising a prospects shackles and alarming sensibilities or not is why some sales people scrape by and others make more money than would be believed, across all industries.
Car salesmen, engineering services and equipment, insurance, financial brokerage, real estate…
top performers can show and close sales bottom performers don’t. Same product, same process… Part of it is they’ve nailed likeability, along with the rest of the psychology. They can be conversationl, very relaxed, yet still get info by asking questions to use it later to be likeable.
It feels like a friendly conversation between two dudes who seem to hit it off, but the salesmen is very deliberately building “rapport”. The very nature of asking questions lets peoples gaurd down whether they realize it or not (people love talking about themselves, there is plenty of psychological research demonstrating the efficacy of allowing people to feel in control by letting them talk), and allows the sales person to qualify them, find their ‘buttons’ and be in their head.
Simultaneous likeable and pre-planned salesmanship.
They are every prospects best friend, it’s like hitting on women. Some call your bullshit, most don’t… if done right.
It doesn’t have anything to do with age. In fact, old school sales manuals, books and tapes are very much psychology 101, say this to close that, use inflection and tone here but not there et cetera. Helpful tools but the “relationship” type sale is a product of Generation Yours Truly.
[/quote]
HG I know what you are saying, didnt know it was going to pay off as much as it did, but I minored in Psych when I got my masters.
My point was more with the personal space issue. The older we get the less openly aggressive we are however I find myself more closed off to people invading my personal space.
As far as the likeable, that is easy I have no problem in that area.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I also find that when “making a deal” closing in on personal space, when done correctly, is helpful. You bring their gaurd up, break it down, give control of it back to them but own it psychologically. It’s very key.
[/quote]
If you did this to me, I wouldn’t like it and I’d probably not like you after it. And I would be unlikely to do business with you unless I had to. Real talk. You cannot bring my guard up, and bring it back down and/or otherwise “take control”. If you made my guard go up, you are no longer in control of bringing it back down.
Of course, the sheeple of the world may be different, who knows.[/quote]
You can’t win them all.
Any salesman/broker/business developer what have you worth his salt knows that if he isn’t in control he isn’t going to close.
The art of it is breaking down barriers subtly. A shoulder slap with a joke, leaning in to emphasize points and out to relax the tension that always surrounds a purchase agreement et cetera, you don’t start an arm wrestling match or punch him in the face. Unless maybe you are “muscleing” them but I don’t know much about that.
You don’t even realize it’s happening if done right. A bad salesmen can really butcher it though, think used car or door to door insurance. Mis-applied sales psychology 101.
But, if someone is resisting at every turn, you cut your losses and move on, which is the numbers game aspect of it.[/quote]
the minute you invade my personal space in a orchestrated move, you lost me. and I do know when you’re doing it. as I said in another thread; “likeability” is king. you can raise all the BS psychology you want, but people are “closed” upon b/c they like and/or trust someone. any other close is just forced, and will often result in the deal falling thru or no repeat business. if I like you, and I trust you, and you have the product I want, I’m a buyer - and NO amount of “salesmanship 101” can change that algebra. and trust me, if you lean in and invade my space in an orchestrated shoulder slap that is inconsistent with our relationship or the meeting, I think “oily salesman”.
I’m not intending to argue with you, just giving you another perspective which is another tool in your tool box if you’re a smart businessman/salesman
[/quote]
BG is this a age thing? You are just a few years older than me but I look at this the way you do. I have for the past two years had to learn sales/business (medical aspect) with no formal training and trial and error. So interested in both of your viewpoints.
[/quote]
I don’t think it’s an age thing, but it probably is a cultural thing. Americans definitely have a “no-fly” zone to strangers and such.
There are two kinds of salesmen (I think) in this world; “naturals”, and those are people that are just fucking “likable”. Everyone knows the kind of person I’m talking about - you just “like” him or her. And if they have something you need, you’re likely to be sold by them.
And then there is the “learned” salesman, who will employ the psychology suggested by HG to varying degrees of success depending on their skill level and their own relative “likability”. I’m not saying the latter doesn’t work, it does. But your mileage will vary.
But the natural is in a category by themselves.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I also find that when “making a deal” closing in on personal space, when done correctly, is helpful. You bring their gaurd up, break it down, give control of it back to them but own it psychologically. It’s very key.
[/quote]
If you did this to me, I wouldn’t like it and I’d probably not like you after it. And I would be unlikely to do business with you unless I had to. Real talk. You cannot bring my guard up, and bring it back down and/or otherwise “take control”. If you made my guard go up, you are no longer in control of bringing it back down.
Of course, the sheeple of the world may be different, who knows.[/quote]
You can’t win them all.
Any salesman/broker/business developer what have you worth his salt knows that if he isn’t in control he isn’t going to close.
The art of it is breaking down barriers subtly. A shoulder slap with a joke, leaning in to emphasize points and out to relax the tension that always surrounds a purchase agreement et cetera, you don’t start an arm wrestling match or punch him in the face. Unless maybe you are “muscleing” them but I don’t know much about that.
You don’t even realize it’s happening if done right. A bad salesmen can really butcher it though, think used car or door to door insurance. Mis-applied sales psychology 101.
But, if someone is resisting at every turn, you cut your losses and move on, which is the numbers game aspect of it.[/quote]
the minute you invade my personal space in a orchestrated move, you lost me. and I do know when you’re doing it. as I said in another thread; “likeability” is king. you can raise all the BS psychology you want, but people are “closed” upon b/c they like and/or trust someone. any other close is just forced, and will often result in the deal falling thru or no repeat business. if I like you, and I trust you, and you have the product I want, I’m a buyer - and NO amount of “salesmanship 101” can change that algebra. and trust me, if you lean in and invade my space in an orchestrated shoulder slap that is inconsistent with our relationship or the meeting, I think “oily salesman”.
I’m not intending to argue with you, just giving you another perspective which is another tool in your tool box if you’re a smart businessman/salesman
[/quote]
BG is this a age thing? You are just a few years older than me but I look at this the way you do. I have for the past two years had to learn sales/business (medical aspect) with no formal training and trial and error. So interested in both of your viewpoints.
[/quote]
I don’t think it’s an age thing, but it probably is a cultural thing. Americans definitely have a “no-fly” zone to strangers and such.
There are two kinds of salesmen (I think) in this world; “naturals”, and those are people that are just fucking “likable”. Everyone knows the kind of person I’m talking about - you just “like” him or her. And if they have something you need, you’re likely to be sold by them.
And then there is the “learned” salesman, who will employ the psychology suggested by HG to varying degrees of success depending on their skill level and their own relative “likability”. I’m not saying the latter doesn’t work, it does. But your mileage will vary.
But the natural is in a category by themselves. [/quote]Likeable people who don’t employ basic sales principles will never ever succeed.
Awkward people who master sales principles will make a decent living.
Likeable people who master sales principles will become millionares through sales alone, assuming they position themselves in the flow of money correctly. These are your top perfomers industry to industry and company to company every time, without fail.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[/quote]Likeable people who don’t employ basic sales principles will never ever succeed.
Awkward people who master sales principles will make a decent living.
Likeable people who master sales principles will become millionares through sales alone, assuming they position themselves in the flow of money correctly. These are your top perfomers industry to industry and company to company every time, without fail.
[/quote]
The “natural” does employ those “principals”, but he does it “naturally”. Believe it or not there ARE people in the world that build rapport naturally, that ask questions b/c they genuinely want to get to know you better. I’m guessing you never ran into a natural or, you’re so jaded that if you did, you thought he was very “learned” in sales psychology.
In the end, we’re pissing here - we don’t really disagree.
[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:
Yesterday I ran into a friend,whom I have not seen in awhile, at work. He was really happy to see me and we caught up with each other for a few minutes. One of my coworkers came up to me and told me that there was a truck waiting to be unloaded. I told him that Ill be there in a couple minutes and he left. My friend asked “What was all that about?”
I asked him what was he talking about. He told me that my body language was very defensive. That my body was squared up to my coworkers,my eyes starred at him,hardly blinking and my hands tensed up. He could tell that I was about ready to fight him. I told him that I just didnt like working here. However,This got me thinking;Does everybody else size people up?
Do we do it to only people we dont like or even people that we like but think that in the back of our minds what we can do if it got to “that point”? And people that we dont even know or just met? Is it only guys that do this;where we are always calculating how to fight and win against other dudes? [/quote]
We’re people we observe… Different people can do it to to better levels then others, sometimes people are totally off. You never became friends with somebody you thought you would never like?
One thing you are drastically overlooking is yourself. It’s hard to look at oneself but did you stop and think that maybe you hate the job so much that your look made him think of things to see you did? It’s like waking up in a bad mood for no reason, anybody can see it but you think your playing it off.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Totally agree with you. I only ever get the ‘beast mode activated command’ when somebody is coming at me, not when they are just around.
Jesus guys get a grip![/quote]
You ever been in a situation where you are surrounded by people who want to and would kill you if given half the chance? When you’ve been in those situations A LOT and have been trained to know what to look for/how to avoid it, you dont ever stop doing those things. Its not paranoia its called “situational awareness” and it becomes second nature.[/quote]
LOL Greg. Yeah to the above. I’m in Camden NJ a few times a week. And, I’m a “white boy”. And, let’s not forget my personal protection and security past. “Situational awareness” is one thing when it’s warranted and I always have it. Always. I don’t ever slip. And I can see shit coming from a mile away like I got the telegram. But guess what? The way it’s being described here by some sounds a lot to me like the little nervous dog.
But really Greg, do you think the average person has ever been surrounded by people itching to kill them if given half the chance? Because your audience here IS the “average person”. And they sound awfully nervous to me, but I knew that before this thread. I’m a man, aware of the insecurities of other men.
Male insecurity is the biggest cause of the following male diseases, syndromes and disorders; “I wanna get swole disease”, “me and my boys speech disorder”, “static inhale syndrome”, the well known “imaginary lat syndrome”, “the manson stare disease”, “rigid bicep/tricep muscle disorder”, “clenched jaw syndrome”, “I’m not moving out of your way disorder”, “I walk like this b/c I was shot in the leg once gait adjustment disorder”, “I’m trying to make my traps look bigger syndrome”.
All the above are identical to “hair raised”, “curled lip”, “snarling”, “baring teeth”, “barking”, “growling”, “arched back”, etc., all better known as “threat displays”.
Threat displays do not = “situational awareness”.
[/quote]
I agree with you. Some of this does come across as insecure (although I haven’t read every post)… I was just speaking from personal experience and not really speaking for others in this thread.
HG and BG
What if the product you sell is also a product that must keep producing and the “salesman” in this case is actually part of the product?
Here is personal slant.
I work for occupational medicine company I am expanding Houston market. So I have to sell our product to Mid-Level and above construction/energy/oil etc companies. However I am also the Medical Provider that will be on site AND the manager for all the staff that will be on site.
So I cant be a “salesman” in the sense that close deal and move on. I actually have to keep the contracts by continuing to produce the product. If I just act like a “salesman” in time will not work, so my approach has to be different.
Yes BG the more I thought about it the more I think its probably more cultural in nature than age related.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[/quote]Likeable people who don’t employ basic sales principles will never ever succeed.
Awkward people who master sales principles will make a decent living.
Likeable people who master sales principles will become millionares through sales alone, assuming they position themselves in the flow of money correctly. These are your top perfomers industry to industry and company to company every time, without fail.
[/quote]
The “natural” does employ those “principals”, but he does it “naturally”. Believe it or not there ARE people in the world that build rapport naturally, that ask questions b/c they genuinely want to get to know you better. I’m guessing you never ran into a natural or, you’re so jaded that if you did, you thought he was very “learned” in sales psychology.
In the end, we’re pissing here - we don’t really disagree. [/quote]Natural is the point I’ve been trying to make.
If done correctly a pitch comes across natural. I promise salesmen aren’t asking questions because they care about your life, friends, desires et cetera. As naturally friendly and real as it feels, they are breaking down your gaurd and learning how to make you move. You are misreading those snowflakes no argument intended.
They don’t go to work every morning to make friends. They make clients. The natural ability to connect, call it charisma, is just as useful in sales as it is in politics, and just as fake if friendship is what you seek from a sales agent at work. He is applying his natural talents to a process that turns thinking and money. The naturals are the best at this, you are correct.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
HG and BG
What if the product you sell is also a product that must keep producing and the “salesman” in this case is actually part of the product?
Here is personal slant.
I work for occupational medicine company I am expanding Houston market. So I have to sell our product to Mid-Level and above construction/energy/oil etc companies. However I am also the Medical Provider that will be on site AND the manager for all the staff that will be on site.
So I cant be a “salesman” in the sense that close deal and move on. I actually have to keep the contracts by continuing to produce the product. If I just act like a “salesman” in time will not work, so my approach has to be different.
Yes BG the more I thought about it the more I think its probably more cultural in nature than age related.[/quote]
Definitely be a friend. They know you are a business contact but be easy and develop relationships. You can’t avoid closing though… you can be chatty all day but you’ve got to be a salesmen too.
Read up on account management, relationship selling et cetera. General, inborn personality is a gift sales people can use but you do need to learn your angle too.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
HG and BG
What if the product you sell is also a product that must keep producing and the “salesman” in this case is actually part of the product?
Here is personal slant.
I work for occupational medicine company I am expanding Houston market. So I have to sell our product to Mid-Level and above construction/energy/oil etc companies. However I am also the Medical Provider that will be on site AND the manager for all the staff that will be on site.
So I cant be a “salesman” in the sense that close deal and move on. I actually have to keep the contracts by continuing to produce the product. If I just act like a “salesman” in time will not work, so my approach has to be different.
Yes BG the more I thought about it the more I think its probably more cultural in nature than age related.[/quote]
Definitely be a friend. They know you are a business contact but be easy and develop relationships. You can’t avoid closing though… you can be chatty all day but you’ve got to be a salesmen too.
Read up on account management, relationship selling et cetera. General, inborn personality is a gift sales people can use but you do need to learn your angle too.[/quote]
I study my boss and managing partner. He is a Physician Assistant and the “salesman” for the company he has never had formal business education etc. But our company has had amazing steady growth over the last 13 years, every year when our CPA’s come in they are always shocked at our growth. I have everything down really but the closing part, only because he becomes involved and takes it from there. No worries, I am patient.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
HG and BG
What if the product you sell is also a product that must keep producing and the “salesman” in this case is actually part of the product?
Here is personal slant.
I work for occupational medicine company I am expanding Houston market. So I have to sell our product to Mid-Level and above construction/energy/oil etc companies. However I am also the Medical Provider that will be on site AND the manager for all the staff that will be on site.
So I cant be a “salesman” in the sense that close deal and move on. I actually have to keep the contracts by continuing to produce the product. If I just act like a “salesman” in time will not work, so my approach has to be different.
Yes BG the more I thought about it the more I think its probably more cultural in nature than age related.[/quote]
Definitely be a friend. They know you are a business contact but be easy and develop relationships. You can’t avoid closing though… you can be chatty all day but you’ve got to be a salesmen too.
Read up on account management, relationship selling et cetera. General, inborn personality is a gift sales people can use but you do need to learn your angle too.[/quote]
I study my boss and managing partner. He is a Physician Assistant and the “salesman” for the company he has never had formal business education etc. But our company has had amazing steady growth over the last 13 years, every year when our CPA’s come in they are always shocked at our growth. I have everything down really but the closing part, only because he becomes involved and takes it from there. No worries, I am patient.
[/quote]Sorry for the delay, I’ve been involved in a cat fight over in SAMA.
Closing is usually the toughest part because it’s the most “confrontational” by nature. All likeability aside, it’s time to be a salesman and ask for the business. All the time and potentially money spend to this point rides on what happens in the next minute. Can be tense at first.
This is where you know whether your execution of sales psychology, likeability factor included, will cut the mustard. It just takes practice though. They should close themselves based on the conversation you led them through that they felt like they controlled if that makes sense.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
HG and BG
What if the product you sell is also a product that must keep producing and the “salesman” in this case is actually part of the product?
Here is personal slant.
I work for occupational medicine company I am expanding Houston market. So I have to sell our product to Mid-Level and above construction/energy/oil etc companies. However I am also the Medical Provider that will be on site AND the manager for all the staff that will be on site.
So I cant be a “salesman” in the sense that close deal and move on. I actually have to keep the contracts by continuing to produce the product. If I just act like a “salesman” in time will not work, so my approach has to be different.
Yes BG the more I thought about it the more I think its probably more cultural in nature than age related.[/quote]
Definitely be a friend. They know you are a business contact but be easy and develop relationships. You can’t avoid closing though… you can be chatty all day but you’ve got to be a salesmen too.
Read up on account management, relationship selling et cetera. General, inborn personality is a gift sales people can use but you do need to learn your angle too.[/quote]
I study my boss and managing partner. He is a Physician Assistant and the “salesman” for the company he has never had formal business education etc. But our company has had amazing steady growth over the last 13 years, every year when our CPA’s come in they are always shocked at our growth. I have everything down really but the closing part, only because he becomes involved and takes it from there. No worries, I am patient.
[/quote]Sorry for the delay, I’ve been involved in a cat fight over in SAMA.
Closing is usually the toughest part because it’s the most “confrontational” by nature. All likeability aside, it’s time to be a salesman and ask for the business. All the time and potentially money spend to this point rides on what happens in the next minute. Can be tense at first.
This is where you know whether your execution of sales psychology, likeability factor included, will cut the mustard. It just takes practice though. They should close themselves based on the conversation you led them through that they felt like they controlled if that makes sense.
[/quote]
Makes total sense and I do not worry about that point when I get to that point. Too long a story to explain all the issues.
Now back to light hearted subject matter.
