[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
HardcoreHorn wrote:
But where’s the jiu-jitsu? I want to see a girl putting the triangle on another girl. how hot would that be!
Wow. Horrible technique, but sooo hot!
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
I don’t enjoy women’s MMA, but I do enjoy women’s grappling. I also don’t like the WEC or care for lightweight men’s fighting, either. [/quote]
Alot of people don’t seem to care for the under 155 classes, featherweight, bantamweight and flyweight. That is fine but there are alot of very skillful fighters in those classes. Melendez used to fight at featherweight.
Rumina Sato has moved down(who was fun to watch against Tito in the ADCC back in the day) and crushed Yves Edwards. Lion. Yamaguchi at flyweight. Kid back in his Shooto days. Carvalho. Faber also but he gets way too much credit because he fights in the WEC and has never fought in Shooto though he did beat Abe on a cut a while back and I know Abe and he is a good fighter.
[quote]HardcoreHorn wrote:
Wow. Horrible technique, but sooo hot![/quote]
Just curious why you think the technique was horrible? Do you work out of the rubber guard?
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
If you strictly view women as sexual objects, of course you would not be attracted to female fighting - as fighting is not sexualized.
But if you view women as having value beyond their ability to copulate, you might be able appreciate the sport.
I don’t enjoy women’s MMA, but I do enjoy women’s grappling. I also don’t like the WEC or care for lightweight men’s fighting, either. [/quote]
Nice post. I hear that sort of thing that guys don’t want to even grapple with women, as if they can’t put aside sexuality for 5 minutes and grapple. I just don’t get it.
I have to ask, what about the lighter weight fighters don’t you like?
How awesome would it be to inside a girls guard (missionary position) knowing that at any moment she could bring her leg up throwing a triangle on you and choke you out? Nice!
[quote]Xylene wrote:
Sifu wrote:
I hate watching women fight. The female body is not designed for that kind of abuse and I don’t want to be a spectator of a match where someone dies.
Tell that to a group of female cops or women in the military.
:)[/quote]
I like chicks who shoot, alot! I don’t know who does the hiring for the Detroit police force but they have some real hotties.
I’ve seen a film of a woman who died in the ring. The blow that killed her wasn’t much of anything. Women do not have the kind of upper body strength that men have.
The mechanics of a knockout are this. The blow accelerates the skull which in turn smacks into the brain. The muscles of the neck are what keeps your skull from whipping around and smacking into your brain.
Look at the female skull compared to the male skull and you will see that males have a much thicker heavier bone structure.
I have had excellent women students and I know they can be tough I just don’t like to see them beat the hell out of each other. Especially after I saw one die.
[quote]otoko wrote:
No I don’t enjoy women’s mma. There are just a handful of fighters who are good. Then it just gets really bad after that. Same with women’s boxing. For some reason they can look good in the gym but when they step in front of a live opponent everything goes to hell.
If it is grappling only then that is a different story. This has nothing to do with appreciating women, just that compared to the men it(mma) really isn’t that good. Though it doesn’t seem you can say this and not be labeled sexist.[/quote]
Good points. I didn’t mean my comments to be sexist. I have had women students who were good karate ka. Unlike the men I never had to beat the hell out of one of them.
In the school I came up in we had a high turnover. My teachers methods broke a lot of men, but even more women. Everyone fought everyone including the senseis and the women. My teacher felt it was good for us to fight a variety of different sized opponents.
I think it is wrong to treat women students like they are little men, they are’nt. You are dealing with a different mental makeup. Some things women are very good at and they would learn very quick.
What I have found with women students is that confidence was something that I really needed to pay attention to and not focus so much on their abilities.
This is what Otoko is seeing, someone with good skills in the gym, whose confidence level hasn’t kept up with the growth in skills.
Hormones play a big role. Men have a monthly testosterone cycle, so even the toughtest guys in our dojo didn’t always feel quite so tough. A womans monthly cycle has an even more profound effect on their confidence levels. So if you match two women who are at different phases of their moon you might not get much of a fight.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Sifu wrote:
The female body is not designed for that kind of abuse
Nor is the male body. Look at Randy Couture’s face. His face is starting to look like an alligator’s. Wanderlai Silva has always been ugly, but he looks worse every year. Even Fedor Emelianenko is showing signs of abuse.
And that’s not to mention how their joints are going to feel in another decade. See, e.g., Bas Rutten.
It’s been said before: Being an elite athlete (especially an elite fighter) is NOT healthy, as the human (male and female) body is not designed for that kind of abuse.
So your swipe at women just shows what a troglodyte you are.[/quote]
You are right. Men aren’t made for that kind of abuse, but with women it’s even more so.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
I’ve seen a film of a woman who died in the ring. The blow that killed her wasn’t much of anything. Women do not have the kind of upper body strength that men have.
The mechanics of a knockout are this. The blow accelerates the skull which in turn smacks into the brain. The muscles of the neck are what keeps your skull from whipping around and smacking into your brain.
Look at the female skull compared to the male skull and you will see that males have a much thicker heavier bone structure.[/quote]
There has also been a man that was killed during an MMA bout.
Does that fucking mean we should keep people from having sanctioned bouts?
FUCK NO!!
Thousands die everyday due to vehicle crashes. Are we going to ban/stop driving cars now??
What your asking is to curb women’s behavior b/c they are so fucking precious and fragile. I bet you don’t like it that some of your delicate students like to take on fours dicks at once. I bet you don’t like that some get piss-ass drunk to the point they don’t know where the fuck they are on weekends and weekdays.
There are lots of things in life we LIKE and DON’T LIKE.
Those women that step in the ring/cage, join the army/PD know the fucking risk/dangers, accept it, and fight through that shit.
[quote]fireplug52 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
If you strictly view women as sexual objects, of course you would not be attracted to female fighting - as fighting is not sexualized.
But if you view women as having value beyond their ability to copulate, you might be able appreciate the sport.
I don’t enjoy women’s MMA, but I do enjoy women’s grappling. I also don’t like the WEC or care for lightweight men’s fighting, either.
Nice post. I hear that sort of thing that guys don’t want to even grapple with women, as if they can’t put aside sexuality for 5 minutes and grapple. I just don’t get it.
I have to ask, what about the lighter weight fighters don’t you like?[/quote]
I think part of it is how the brain handles visual information. When we see something happen our brain forms a mental construct of the event that is like we were doing what we saw.
That is why it is so exciting to see something like a quarterback make an incredible run where he shakes off everything that comes at him. The way your brains see it, it was you doing that. Cat scans of people watching such an event have shown activity in the part of the brain related to motor control.
So when you watch Fedor ground and pound someone, in your minds eye it is you doing that. So in our mental construst it is more appealing to be the big alphamale who can crush everyone than some skinny little guy even if he has mad skills.
The first time I saw Chuck Liddell fight was against Tito Ortiz. After he won Chuck ran into the middle of the ring with his head threw back roaring I wanted to jump and yell too. I got off on that.
I would like to see more small fighters, because I think you would see less reliance on strength and more skills. But I don’t think it has the same appeal because of the mental construct.
[quote]tumbeh wrote:
How awesome would it be to inside a girls guard (missionary position) knowing that at any moment she could bring her leg up throwing a triangle on you and choke you out? Nice![/quote]
Jesus Christ that brings back a funny memory. I remember the first BJJ club i went to about 5 years ago. There was a girl who trained and obviously she had to roll with the men. I remember getting a little bit of blood down there the first time i rolled with her. Very uncomfortable experience because i really didn’t want her or anybody else to notice!
[quote]Sifu wrote:
fireplug52 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
If you strictly view women as sexual objects, of course you would not be attracted to female fighting - as fighting is not sexualized.
But if you view women as having value beyond their ability to copulate, you might be able appreciate the sport.
I don’t enjoy women’s MMA, but I do enjoy women’s grappling. I also don’t like the WEC or care for lightweight men’s fighting, either.
Nice post. I hear that sort of thing that guys don’t want to even grapple with women, as if they can’t put aside sexuality for 5 minutes and grapple. I just don’t get it.
I have to ask, what about the lighter weight fighters don’t you like?
I think part of it is how the brain handles visual information. When we see something happen our brain forms a mental construct of the event that is like we were doing what we saw.
That is why it is so exciting to see something like a quarterback make an incredible run where he shakes off everything that comes at him. The way your brains see it, it was you doing that. Cat scans of people watching such an event have shown activity in the part of the brain related to motor control.
So when you watch Fedor ground and pound someone, in your minds eye it is you doing that. So in our mental construst it is more appealing to be the big alphamale who can crush everyone than some skinny little guy even if he has mad skills.
The first time I saw Chuck Liddell fight was against Tito Ortiz. After he won Chuck ran into the middle of the ring with his head threw back roaring I wanted to jump and yell too. I got off on that.
I would like to see more small fighters, because I think you would see less reliance on strength and more skills. But I don’t think it has the same appeal because of the mental construct.[/quote]
I guess that makes sense. I suppose I don’t have the same experience as I’m a little dude. Meh.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Hormones play a big role. Men have a monthly testosterone cycle, so even the toughtest guys in our dojo didn’t always feel quite so tough. A womans monthly cycle has an even more profound effect on their confidence levels. So if you match two women who are at different phases of their moon you might not get much of a fight.
[/quote]
Hi Sifu,
I did not know I have a monthly testosterone cycle. This concept is totally new as well as very intriguing, given that it’s right. Do you have any material, links, or sources. Or, could you just elaborate a bit more on the subject, please?
Regards-
Schwarzfahrer
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Hi Sifu,
I did not know I have a monthly testosterone cycle. This concept is totally new as well as very intriguing, given that it’s right. Do you have any material, links, or sources. Or, could you just elaborate a bit more on the subject, please?
[/quote]
I too would like to hear more about my monthly testosterone cycle.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
HardcoreHorn wrote:
Wow. Horrible technique, but sooo hot!
Just curious why you think the technique was horrible? Do you work out of the rubber guard? [/quote]
Oh well I wasn’t referring to the rubber guard, but rather to the choke itself. There was no real setup, other than grab her arm, bring your leg through, and figure 4 her. She didn’t explain that by moving the hips first, the leg could be slipped through much easier, or that you should angle your body to make the choke tighter, as well as to prevent your opponent from stacking you or lifting you.
She also didn’t mention raising the hips as you pull the head down to really make the choke tight. She didn’t even talk about where the opponent’s trapped arm should be to make the choke effective.
[quote]AdamC wrote:
Jesus Christ that brings back a funny memory. I remember the first BJJ club i went to about 5 years ago. There was a girl who trained and obviously she had to roll with the men. I remember getting a little bit of blood down there the first time i rolled with her. Very uncomfortable experience because i really didn’t want her or anybody else to notice![/quote]
Been there!
Nothing like trying to practice technique while biting your cheek and thinking of football.
– ElbowStrike
I read about the monthly cycle many years ago in the newspaper (I know not the best source of info please don’t flame me) also many years ago Dan Duchaine wrote an article for MM2000 explaining the funtioning of the feed back loop of the hypothalamus, pituitary, testicular axis.
I can’t remember if he discussed a time frame it’s been years. One thing he said is that testosterone levels start low and begin to rise, as they do estradiol levels will begin to rise to the point that they shut down the hpta axis. Testosterone peaks then drops followed by estradiol till the estradiol drops low enough for the testes to kick on again.
Here is an article that shows that men may have a facultative ability to cycle their testosterone levels over a 28 day period to match their mate if they are trying to concieve.
http://www.univie.ac.at/zoology/nbs/gruenau/downloads/Hirschenhauser_et_al2002.pdf
Xylene the ufc isn’t what it used to be. Carly Gracie has said that the original idea of the ufc was to bring together various styles to see what actually worked. Now it’s just about watching someone smash elses face in.
As a person who is capable of doing I don’t feel as strong of a need to live vicariously through someone on tv.
Also I have respect for what these skills can do. All a referee has to do is step in one blow too late. I felt real bad watching a semiconscious Rich Franklin get his nose driven across his face, it gave me flash backs to when I had it done to me. I think the ref coud have stepped in. I think I would feel even worse watching it happen to a woman.
If you watch most MMA matches, the basic skillset that is used for the stand up part of a match, is usually something that could be taught in 15 minutes or less. Maybe there is a whole lot more to the grappling side that I am just not seeing because I’m not extensively trained in it.
But a lot of it looks like something my teacher would teach a basic self defense class.
Back when you could see a monkey stylist against a ninjitsu stylist it was a little more intersting, even if they weren’t the most practical of styles.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Now it’s just about watching someone smash elses face in.
If you watch most MMA matches, the basic skillset that is used for the stand up part of a match, is usually something that could be taught in 15 minutes or less. Maybe there is a whole lot more to the grappling side that I am just not seeing because I’m not extensively trained in it.
But a lot of it looks like something my teacher would teach a basic self defense class.
[/quote]
I strongly disagree. The issue is that the addition of grappling means that you cannot commit to striking, moving and footwork like you can in a pure striking environment. If you do so, you are likely to be taken down. As such, most have to go back to basics, and throw basic straight punches, and hooks. Uppercuts are underused (though if you watch Rampage Jackson, he puts them to good use).
MMA today is not about proving what styles work best like it was, true. It has become about pure combative competition. Any striking art that covered the basic components can work in modern MMA (I believe Chuck Liddel has his base in Kenpo) along with a grappling art of some kind.
I encourage you to enter an amatuer MMA event and try it for yourself (though I have gathered your interests lie elsewhere) even if just to confirm your thoughts on the matter.
http://www.gracie.com/pubs/uk-combat1297.html
COMBAT: Finally, do you think UFC is a good or a bad thing?
CARLEY GRACIE: Well, I don’t know. A little bit of both, maybe. The idea made sense when it first started, because there were a lot of fantasy martial arts in the U.S. where people weren’t actually learning effective self-defense. The early UFC events demonstrated what systems worked and what didn’t, and there’s no doubt that Gracie Jiu-Jitsu came out on top. However, now the UFC has become more of a brawl, burdened with rules that don’t exist on the street, and more for the sake of violence and entertainment than to test the effectiveness of the various martial arts. This is leading to a lot of public criticism of the UFC and similar events.
My father started events called “vale tudo” (Portuguese for “everything goes”) in Brazil with what he called the “Gracie challenge”. He wanted to prove a point – to see once and for all which martial art prepares you best for the conditions of a street fight.
Over the years, the Gracie style of Jiu Jitsu has consistently demonstrated its effectiveness. My father’s concept is now being perpetuated on pay-per-view TV for purely commercial purposes – selling violence for violence’s sake or for entertainment!
I’m concerned that this may set a bad example for the viewers. I think that if my father were alive now and saw the UFC or similar events, he would say it should be stopped. ‘Stop all this!’
I also want the public to know that although some of my relatives were instrumental in starting the UFC, and although UFC announcers frequently talk about the Gracie style of jiu-jitsu in a complimentary way, my relatives have sold their interest in the UFC and the Gracie family actually has nothing to do with the UFC at the present time.
If you take a straight punch off the lead hand, reverse punch off the rear hand, elbow, round house to the leg, knee and work on them till you can hurt someone that is a lot. I could spend 3 minutes teaching each technique 15 minutes total.
I watched a match the other day where the guy who won didn’t even have that much of a skill set. The commentator said before the match this guy has no stand up and he wasn’t kidding. He blocked punches with his face but just kept coming till all of a sudden he got ahold of the other guy then bam, he looked like a bear cub climbing a tree.
He got to the other guys back and that was it submitted him. I’m sure some of you guys saw it, it was the guys in the clown outfits show.