Feeling Bent Rows in Upper Lats

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:
Does any other people also have an opinion on Kroc Rows?[/quote]

Don’t be an idiot and injure yourself doing them by rounding your back like a scared cat (as with any exercise), aside from that, go to town. A perfectly acceptable row variation.

General rules of thumb for upper back training:

  1. More strict often recruits lats better.
  2. Pausing a movement at the contraction is a good way to target a certain muscle group, and/or establish a better MMC. Try it with varying exercises to see what each hits best for you.
  3. Straps can be your biggest friend for back training, especially if your arms taking over is the issue.
  4. Along the lines of MMC, try doing 5 or so sub-maximal sets with light-ish weight before working sets, or before moving on to other exercises for that group. So basically, pre-exhaust.
  5. Barbell Rows can be a very individual thing, as far as muscles emphasized best. Try different variations, grips, row higher/lower to your torso, etc. [/quote]

Are those ALL the tips and advice you have for upper back training? I’m trying to achieve the back in my avatar.[/quote]

Don’t make shit more complicated than you have to. Be brilliant in the basics, etc etc.

How about this…throw up a video of you doing a working set of barbell rows, and I’ll help you out in a little more detail if you do that. [/quote]

Thanks mate I appretiate it.

42

[quote]plateau wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:
Cheers for the advice. Kelso Shrugs look like they’d really hit the area I want, but unfortunatly my gym does not have one of those machines.[/quote]

You don’t need to use a machine, you can use a BB or DBs, or even cables[/quote]

Oh, unfortunatly the only kelso shrugs video I found on youtube was a man using what looked like a cable crossover machine, which my gym doesn’t have, it only has single cable stations.

43

[quote]FattyFat wrote:
Lots of good advice in this thread, so far.
If OP can’t make head or tails of it - his loss.

LOL @ wanting the back illustrated in the OP’s avatar:

that would be Tom Hardy’s back from his film ‘Warrior’.
I remember having read about how Hardy and Edgerton got fit for their respective roles. Apart from the MMA stuff there were lots of basic lifting exercises. Big surprise.

[/quote]

Yeah it might be genetics because Tom Hardy always has an amazing upper back. I went on the internet and was looking for exactly what his weightlifting program consisted of when training for Warrior but didn’t find anything, only a video of him doing some heavy squats.

44

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]bignate wrote:
try underhand grip, i find the underhand hits the lats more, as in the outer and lower portions of the back, where as an overhand grip almost forces me to row higher and hit more the mid of the back.

Try bending over more/less as well this can affect the tension on the muscle greatly. Or just dont do barbell rows, i never liked them much for going heavy, always preffered a nice cable or db row.[/quote]

But Barbell Rows are perfect for hitting the Mid Back area, if your talking about a Db Row where u bend over a bench with one knee and one hand supported underneath then that actually targets the Lats, not the area I want to hit. To be honest there isn’t really a massive variety of exercises that hit mostly the Mid Trap/Rhombiod area. But to hit them on Back day these exercises are on my program -
Bent Over Rows
Chest Supported Rows (machine)
Reverse Flyes
Face Pulls
Deadlifts/Rackpulls[/quote]
RONG!

Better mid back stretch from unilateral rows. Kroc Rows done right fry the mid back. [/quote]

Yes but with normal rows done with a barbell you can usually handle more weight than a unilateral row, resulting in better growth. Also I tried Kroc Rows once and my Lats were really fuc**ng sore but didnt feel the mid back?[/quote]

It depends on your weaknesses. I can handle more than half any barbell row weight with DB rows. And if you are doing them right you will be able to hit the mid back harder than with a BB. Theres way more of a stretch on the rhomboids/mid trap etc. Chances are you a cheating an awful lot if you are not feeling either of these exercises in the places you want. You need to be using a weight you can hold at the top with these muscles fully contracted. If you cant do that then the weight is too heavy and youll never get the benefit you want.

[/quote]

It kind of puts me off because for me normal DB Rows give me a good Lat burn, but I don’t feel much in my mid back. But I looked at the video of Matt Kroczaleski doing them and it looks like he keeps the DB at a certain angle (not in line with his body). Maybe that activates the mid back more?

45

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]bignate wrote:
try underhand grip, i find the underhand hits the lats more, as in the outer and lower portions of the back, where as an overhand grip almost forces me to row higher and hit more the mid of the back.

Try bending over more/less as well this can affect the tension on the muscle greatly. Or just dont do barbell rows, i never liked them much for going heavy, always preffered a nice cable or db row.[/quote]

But Barbell Rows are perfect for hitting the Mid Back area, if your talking about a Db Row where u bend over a bench with one knee and one hand supported underneath then that actually targets the Lats, not the area I want to hit. To be honest there isn’t really a massive variety of exercises that hit mostly the Mid Trap/Rhombiod area. But to hit them on Back day these exercises are on my program -
Bent Over Rows
Chest Supported Rows (machine)
Reverse Flyes
Face Pulls
Deadlifts/Rackpulls[/quote]
RONG!

Better mid back stretch from unilateral rows. Kroc Rows done right fry the mid back. [/quote]

Yes but with normal rows done with a barbell you can usually handle more weight than a unilateral row, resulting in better growth. Also I tried Kroc Rows once and my Lats were really fuc**ng sore but didnt feel the mid back?[/quote]

It depends on your weaknesses. I can handle more than half any barbell row weight with DB rows. And if you are doing them right you will be able to hit the mid back harder than with a BB. Theres way more of a stretch on the rhomboids/mid trap etc. Chances are you a cheating an awful lot if you are not feeling either of these exercises in the places you want. You need to be using a weight you can hold at the top with these muscles fully contracted. If you cant do that then the weight is too heavy and youll never get the benefit you want.

[/quote]

It kind of puts me off because for me normal DB Rows give me a good Lat burn, but I don’t feel much in my mid back. But I looked at the video of Matt Kroczaleski doing them and it looks like he keeps the DB at a certain angle (not in line with his body). Maybe that activates the mid back more?[/quote]

Pull up and back, and again think of dragging your elbow/upper arm through the ROM rather than moving the DB in your hand. You might have to go lighter on this.

IMO, heavy loading on back exercises (with the exception of something like deads that have solid posterior chain involvement and aren’t limited to the lats/midback) is highly overrated for hypertrophy. I used to row in the 300-400 range and my back was much less developed. I think building a quality back comes down to recruitment and work volume more than anything else.

Whatever you need to do to get a lot of TUT while feeling the correct muscles at work is what you should be doing. Don’t be afraid to sacrifice weight for ROM and quality feel.

46

But what i’m saying is that normal strict DB rows are used to ‘thicken’ the Lats, and I always feel my Lats burning when performing them. But never any feeling in my mid back/rhombiods when performing them and never get any soreness after. Only Lats. So how do Kroc Rows activate the mid back rather than strict DB rows?

47

[quote]Bailey H wrote:
But what i’m saying is that normal strict DB rows are used to ‘thicken’ the Lats, and I always feel my Lats burning when performing them. But never any feeling in my mid back/rhombiods when performing them and never get any soreness after. Only Lats. So how do Kroc Rows activate the mid back rather than strict DB rows?[/quote]

Sorry, I was speaking generally about DB rows- doesn’t really matter which kind, if you’re pulling up and back you should be hitting mid back to some extent.

You can do whatever you want, but I think either your form or MMC is off if you aren’t getting any midback recruitment on DB rows (kroc rows or otherwise). It’s not a problem with the exercise, it’s a problem with the way you’re doing it. I really, really think you should pre-exhaust your rowing work with face pulls or the bat wings I linked to on the previous page. If the muscles aren’t working in an exercise as they are supposed to, you need to practice recruiting them.

48

I just had a back session and I started with inverted bodyweight rows, 10 reps to warm up. Then I went onto Bent over rows, I tried using a wider grip and rowing to lower chest, I definatly felt my mid back alot more. I just want to ask, what is everyones favourite exercises for targeting the mid traps/rhombiods?

I’d also like to emphasize that I only do some Pull Ups and Pulldowns for Lats (for reasons). So if you can could you name upper back exercises which don’t really involve the Lats, or at least to a lesser extent, cheers guys.

49

i dont see how this thread is still going… theres so much good advice here but its like no one has said the ‘right’ answer for the OP.

50

[quote]bignate wrote:
i dont see how this thread is still going… theres so much good advice here but its like no one has said the ‘right’ answer for the OP.[/quote]

Yes and i’ve already been to the gym and tried their advice and benefited from it. Im just asking what exercises these guys like for the area I want to target. If you don’t have advice for the topic this thread is about then don’t post here.

51

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]bignate wrote:
i dont see how this thread is still going… theres so much good advice here but its like no one has said the ‘right’ answer for the OP.[/quote]

Yes and i’ve already been to the gym and tried their advice and benefited from it. Im just asking what exercises these guys like for the area I want to target. If you don’t have advice for the topic this thread is about then don’t post here.[/quote]

lol in 4 days you had time to try all of this advice and benefit form it as well? Youre like neo when hes learning kungfu

52

[quote]bignate wrote:

[quote]Bailey H wrote:

[quote]bignate wrote:
i dont see how this thread is still going… theres so much good advice here but its like no one has said the ‘right’ answer for the OP.[/quote]

Yes and i’ve already been to the gym and tried their advice and benefited from it. Im just asking what exercises these guys like for the area I want to target. If you don’t have advice for the topic this thread is about then don’t post here.[/quote]

lol in 4 days you had time to try all of this advice and benefit form it as well? Youre like neo when hes learning kungfu[/quote]
exercise order is going to make a big difference here OP. You obviously have no trouble hitting the lats so you need to prioritise midback earlier in the workout. If you do any kind of vertical pulldown, pullups put them after everything else. I would use a partial range of motion on the scaps to get your mind connected and to mildly pre-fatique the right muscles. then follow up with db or bb rows.

Try using a row machine and allow your arms and shoulders to relax and stretch at the bottom. Then using only the midback and keeping your hands relaxed (try gripping without thumbs, think of them as hooks) neutral grip and with straight arms “shrug” the weight back, pinch scaps together and hold for a second or two. Allow a slow controlled stretch and repeat.

edit: I cant watch this video atm but I think this is what I mean
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/seated-row-shrug

53

I didnt read any of the posts here, but for me, the difference between hitting lats and hitting mid back with rows, has everything to do with the angle of your elbows…If you read Jim Cordova’s website he has a great article on this and it explains it much better than i could…but in a nutshell if you want to hit the traps and rhomboids more, Flare your elbows out and squeeze the midback together. To hit the lats you want to tuck the elbows into the body…anyways just read the article on cordova’s site

54

I didn’t read all the posts, so forgive me if this has already been said. Any exercise that pulls your elbows down toward your torso is going to engage the lats. To hit the rhomboids/traps without engaging the lats, try 1-arm horizontal rows or reverse flys…something where the elbows flare away from your body.