Probably because you are only using your “midtraps/rhomboids” to perform the first part of the movement, but then you’re continuing to take the rest of your back through a full range of motion.
If I was going to “target” my “mid-traps/rhomboids” (which I wouldn’t call it that because I think that is stupid), I would do seated DB rows bent forward with my ribcage on my thighs, only performing the first half of the movement and focusing on stretching out those muscles at the bottom.
[quote]ESX wrote:
Does your gym have the Hammer Strength Iso Seated Row Machine? If when i use this and take a palm down grip on the top handle with my elbows at 45 degress from my torso i really feel it in my mid back (traps, Rhomboids, rear delts etc). I pull to just below the chest and go quite light and really squeeze my shoulders together.[/quote]
No unfortunatly we don’t have hammer strength machines. I try to use free weights as much as I can anyway.
[quote]Meeko wrote:
Have you tried per-exhausting?
For example do some face-pulls or shrugs or whatever and then do the rows. Personally, a shoulder width grip and rowing to my xiphoid process gave me the best “upper” lat feeling.
That being said if something is not working for you, stop doing it. Try another exercise if you can not feel it at all.
[/quote]
No I havn’t tried pre-exhausting but I will give it a go next Back session. But that being said I don’t think I could just give up on Bent Overs Rows, especially because Rowing exercises are the only exercises that target the Mid Traps/Rhombiods.
excuse me if this is hijacking the thread but i dont see the point in posting an entirely new one; when i’m setting up and doing bent over rows i tend to also get a hell of a lot of strain in the hamstrings too…i’ve just assumed this is normal but figured why not check? anyone?
[quote]dlitt wrote:
excuse me if this is hijacking the thread but i dont see the point in posting an entirely new one; when i’m setting up and doing bent over rows i tend to also get a hell of a lot of strain in the hamstrings too…i’ve just assumed this is normal but figured why not check? anyone?[/quote]
sounds to me like you are rocking in the stretched position while doing your rows. A straight leg deadlift into a row. Try to focus on staying stationary.
[quote]dlitt wrote:
excuse me if this is hijacking the thread but i dont see the point in posting an entirely new one; when i’m setting up and doing bent over rows i tend to also get a hell of a lot of strain in the hamstrings too…i’ve just assumed this is normal but figured why not check? anyone?[/quote]
[quote]bignate wrote:
try underhand grip, i find the underhand hits the lats more, as in the outer and lower portions of the back, where as an overhand grip almost forces me to row higher and hit more the mid of the back.
Try bending over more/less as well this can affect the tension on the muscle greatly. Or just dont do barbell rows, i never liked them much for going heavy, always preffered a nice cable or db row.[/quote]
But Barbell Rows are perfect for hitting the Mid Back area, if your talking about a Db Row where u bend over a bench with one knee and one hand supported underneath then that actually targets the Lats, not the area I want to hit. To be honest there isn’t really a massive variety of exercises that hit mostly the Mid Trap/Rhombiod area. But to hit them on Back day these exercises are on my program -
Bent Over Rows
Chest Supported Rows (machine)
Reverse Flyes
Face Pulls
Deadlifts/Rackpulls[/quote]
RONG!
Better mid back stretch from unilateral rows. Kroc Rows done right fry the mid back.
[quote]bignate wrote:
try underhand grip, i find the underhand hits the lats more, as in the outer and lower portions of the back, where as an overhand grip almost forces me to row higher and hit more the mid of the back.
Try bending over more/less as well this can affect the tension on the muscle greatly. Or just dont do barbell rows, i never liked them much for going heavy, always preffered a nice cable or db row.[/quote]
But Barbell Rows are perfect for hitting the Mid Back area, if your talking about a Db Row where u bend over a bench with one knee and one hand supported underneath then that actually targets the Lats, not the area I want to hit. To be honest there isn’t really a massive variety of exercises that hit mostly the Mid Trap/Rhombiod area. But to hit them on Back day these exercises are on my program -
Bent Over Rows
Chest Supported Rows (machine)
Reverse Flyes
Face Pulls
Deadlifts/Rackpulls[/quote]
RONG!
Better mid back stretch from unilateral rows. Kroc Rows done right fry the mid back. [/quote]
Yes but with normal rows done with a barbell you can usually handle more weight than a unilateral row, resulting in better growth. Also I tried Kroc Rows once and my Lats were really fuc**ng sore but didnt feel the mid back?
[quote]dlitt wrote:
excuse me if this is hijacking the thread but i dont see the point in posting an entirely new one; when i’m setting up and doing bent over rows i tend to also get a hell of a lot of strain in the hamstrings too…i’ve just assumed this is normal but figured why not check? anyone?[/quote]
[quote]bignate wrote:
try underhand grip, i find the underhand hits the lats more, as in the outer and lower portions of the back, where as an overhand grip almost forces me to row higher and hit more the mid of the back.
Try bending over more/less as well this can affect the tension on the muscle greatly. Or just dont do barbell rows, i never liked them much for going heavy, always preffered a nice cable or db row.[/quote]
But Barbell Rows are perfect for hitting the Mid Back area, if your talking about a Db Row where u bend over a bench with one knee and one hand supported underneath then that actually targets the Lats, not the area I want to hit. To be honest there isn’t really a massive variety of exercises that hit mostly the Mid Trap/Rhombiod area. But to hit them on Back day these exercises are on my program -
Bent Over Rows
Chest Supported Rows (machine)
Reverse Flyes
Face Pulls
Deadlifts/Rackpulls[/quote]
RONG!
Better mid back stretch from unilateral rows. Kroc Rows done right fry the mid back. [/quote]
Yes but with normal rows done with a barbell you can usually handle more weight than a unilateral row, resulting in better growth. Also I tried Kroc Rows once and my Lats were really fuc**ng sore but didnt feel the mid back?[/quote]
It depends on your weaknesses. I can handle more than half any barbell row weight with DB rows. And if you are doing them right you will be able to hit the mid back harder than with a BB. Theres way more of a stretch on the rhomboids/mid trap etc. Chances are you a cheating an awful lot if you are not feeling either of these exercises in the places you want. You need to be using a weight you can hold at the top with these muscles fully contracted. If you cant do that then the weight is too heavy and youll never get the benefit you want.
[quote]Bailey H wrote:
Does any other people also have an opinion on Kroc Rows?[/quote]
Don’t be an idiot and injure yourself doing them by rounding your back like a scared cat (as with any exercise), aside from that, go to town. A perfectly acceptable row variation.
General rules of thumb for upper back training:
More strict often recruits lats better.
Pausing a movement at the contraction is a good way to target a certain muscle group, and/or establish a better MMC. Try it with varying exercises to see what each hits best for you.
Straps can be your biggest friend for back training, especially if your arms taking over is the issue.
Along the lines of MMC, try doing 5 or so sub-maximal sets with light-ish weight before working sets, or before moving on to other exercises for that group. So basically, pre-exhaust.
Barbell Rows can be a very individual thing, as far as muscles emphasized best. Try different variations, grips, row higher/lower to your torso, etc.
One of the best pieces of advice, using activation work to reconnect with your traps (I’m not going to say traps/rhomboids because you can’t activate one without the other unless you’re in a research lab, but just so you know I an referring to both traps and rhomboids), seems to be completely ignored.
There are a lot of options, and you will probably need to go through a progression of them over time. You may want to consider starting with band pulls, as in chest expander style pulls. Start with band held shoulder width in front of you, palms facing each other. Without bending your arms at all (you may need to flex your triceps hard for this) pull the band apart so that you end up in a cross position with palms facing forward. Don’t focus on moving your hands, focus on using your traps to power the motion. When you achieve full retraction squeeze hard and finish the movement with rear delts. You will get your best activation by moving really, really slowly. 7-10 seconds concentric, same for eccentric.
As that gets more familiar, start with the locked arm retractions like another person recommended earlier. Kelso shrugs are what they are called in Kelso’s shrug book. Depending on your angle of pull they can target all of the scapular stabilizers/movers. For your current situation focusing on a line of pull perpendicular to your body (straight retraction) will give you what you want. Start light with these, like 5 lbs or 0 lbs (not a mis-typing). You need to feel the proper muscles working if you want to train them. Every so often use more weight, but only if you can really feel it the way you did with the lighter weight. If the exercise feels different in terms of activation patterns then it probably is, and you are not ready for heavier weight.
I’m not suggesting you abandon rows during this, but if you intend to get your traps involved in the rows again you are going to have to re-learn how to use them. Lats are much more powerful, and I am willing to bet a 10 dollar dinner that your shoulderblades rotate anteriorly as you row. That’s a common compensation pattern as weights get heavy and lats take over for the weaker traps, and is probably behind your inability to feel what you want to feel.
Nah seriously try rolling around on a tennis ball for a while. A foam roller is too big (for this) - a tennis ball provides more pressure and precision
When a muscle gets too tight you lose control - this is a painful process of loosening it. Tightness may or may not be your problem, but I would do that along with trying to get your MMC / activation down
[quote]Slizzardman wrote:
One of the best pieces of advice, using activation work to reconnect with your traps (I’m not going to say traps/rhomboids because you can’t activate one without the other unless you’re in a research lab, but just so you know I an referring to both traps and rhomboids), seems to be completely ignored.
There are a lot of options, and you will probably need to go through a progression of them over time. You may want to consider starting with band pulls, as in chest expander style pulls. Start with band held shoulder width in front of you, palms facing each other. Without bending your arms at all (you may need to flex your triceps hard for this) pull the band apart so that you end up in a cross position with palms facing forward. Don’t focus on moving your hands, focus on using your traps to power the motion. When you achieve full retraction squeeze hard and finish the movement with rear delts. You will get your best activation by moving really, really slowly. 7-10 seconds concentric, same for eccentric.
As that gets more familiar, start with the locked arm retractions like another person recommended earlier. Kelso shrugs are what they are called in Kelso’s shrug book. Depending on your angle of pull they can target all of the scapular stabilizers/movers. For your current situation focusing on a line of pull perpendicular to your body (straight retraction) will give you what you want. Start light with these, like 5 lbs or 0 lbs (not a mis-typing). You need to feel the proper muscles working if you want to train them. Every so often use more weight, but only if you can really feel it the way you did with the lighter weight. If the exercise feels different in terms of activation patterns then it probably is, and you are not ready for heavier weight.
I’m not suggesting you abandon rows during this, but if you intend to get your traps involved in the rows again you are going to have to re-learn how to use them. Lats are much more powerful, and I am willing to bet a 10 dollar dinner that your shoulderblades rotate anteriorly as you row. That’s a common compensation pattern as weights get heavy and lats take over for the weaker traps, and is probably behind your inability to feel what you want to feel.[/quote]
Cheers for the advice. Kelso Shrugs look like they’d really hit the area I want, but unfortunatly my gym does not have one of those machines.
[quote]Bailey H wrote:
Does any other people also have an opinion on Kroc Rows?[/quote]
Don’t be an idiot and injure yourself doing them by rounding your back like a scared cat (as with any exercise), aside from that, go to town. A perfectly acceptable row variation.
General rules of thumb for upper back training:
More strict often recruits lats better.
Pausing a movement at the contraction is a good way to target a certain muscle group, and/or establish a better MMC. Try it with varying exercises to see what each hits best for you.
Straps can be your biggest friend for back training, especially if your arms taking over is the issue.
Along the lines of MMC, try doing 5 or so sub-maximal sets with light-ish weight before working sets, or before moving on to other exercises for that group. So basically, pre-exhaust.
Barbell Rows can be a very individual thing, as far as muscles emphasized best. Try different variations, grips, row higher/lower to your torso, etc. [/quote]
Are those ALL the tips and advice you have for upper back training? I’m trying to achieve the back in my avatar.
[quote]Bailey H wrote:
Cheers for the advice. Kelso Shrugs look like they’d really hit the area I want, but unfortunatly my gym does not have one of those machines.[/quote]
You don’t need to use a machine, you can use a BB or DBs, or even cables
[quote]Bailey H wrote:
Does any other people also have an opinion on Kroc Rows?[/quote]
Don’t be an idiot and injure yourself doing them by rounding your back like a scared cat (as with any exercise), aside from that, go to town. A perfectly acceptable row variation.
General rules of thumb for upper back training:
More strict often recruits lats better.
Pausing a movement at the contraction is a good way to target a certain muscle group, and/or establish a better MMC. Try it with varying exercises to see what each hits best for you.
Straps can be your biggest friend for back training, especially if your arms taking over is the issue.
Along the lines of MMC, try doing 5 or so sub-maximal sets with light-ish weight before working sets, or before moving on to other exercises for that group. So basically, pre-exhaust.
Barbell Rows can be a very individual thing, as far as muscles emphasized best. Try different variations, grips, row higher/lower to your torso, etc. [/quote]
Are those ALL the tips and advice you have for upper back training? I’m trying to achieve the back in my avatar.[/quote]
Don’t make shit more complicated than you have to. Be brilliant in the basics, etc etc.
How about this…throw up a video of you doing a working set of barbell rows, and I’ll help you out in a little more detail if you do that.
Lots of good advice in this thread, so far.
If OP can’t make head or tails of it - his loss.
LOL @ wanting the back illustrated in the OP’s avatar:
that would be Tom Hardy’s back from his film ‘Warrior’.
I remember having read about how Hardy and Edgerton got fit for their respective roles. Apart from the MMA stuff there were lots of basic lifting exercises. Big surprise.