Thank you
How are things working for you? Came back to this thread as I’m still trying to find some protocol that works. I’d forgotten that my E2 was 61! I’m also dealing with chronically elevated BP which won’t budge. My psychiatrist believes it’s the unrelenting stress of bipolar and caring for my wife. But regarding E2, haven’t found anything definitive connecting high E2 and elevated BP yet, for me, I suspect there’s a connection, as well erectile function, which brings me back to adding anastrozole. It’s true I’ve been influenced too much by the ‘never control E2’ message and maybe that’s why success with testosterone has eluded me. So damn frustrating to have a strong libido from T, one erection late in the evening, no nocturnals, no morning wood and dead below the waist all day.
Like @roscoe, your thoughts about a large infrequent dose, sounds plausible, even though some guys would shoot it down. We’re not talking about the vast majority of men on T. We’re talking about outliers and we have to try non-standard protocols, as well as using an ai if needed.
Hey dude trying a few diff things out right now. Introduced Masteron to my TRT/Cruise/TOT/TRT+ what ever you want to call it (I don’t need semantics in what’s TRT from anyone who will bother to find the time to lecture)
I got to say libido and erections are improving but still need more time imo including at least 1-2 bloodwork’s to show exactly wth is going on.
If this works there has to be something about our issues and DHT and not only E2. I have to see what my blood work eventually reveals as I am hearing in some men Masteron doesn’t really lower E2 like primo does.
Currently doing e5d injections.
I’d love to try this too. Just have no clue how to obtain.
All my test comes straight from pharmacy.
Yeah the caveat is running something ugl long term.
Well its pretty known it ups libido. So it’ll be interesting to see your numbers later on.
Remember that’s mainly from people doing cycles of 500 and up or something. I have read plenty low dose cruisers who say blood work is fine.
I plan to do no more than 100mg a week if that.
Dunno why but masteron totally fucks me up. Im talking zero libido, dry penis, depressed shitty mood, feeling unease with myself, less “confident” and just BLEH.
And yes, this is on freaking 10mg masteron a day WITH MY 1G OF TEST A WEEK. As soon as I introduce masteron I feel like a freaking piece of crap.
// Equel from new account as I lost my pass
But you said Primo worked for you and got you good libido right? I am not sure if it’s a lot of bunk stuff out there or what but it’s insane how both sister compounds completely flip the script like for like depending on who you ask.
Yes! Primo awesome, masterone shit! And the primo was confirmed legit aswell.
This hormone shit is really darn complex indeed
If I was to guess maybe depends on what each substance does to E2? I heard some say primo lowered their E2 too much, and even if we argue it was bunk primo, the same damn person said they were fine when they took mast. But as I said then you got people claiming the exact opposite for the 2.
Some also say primo killed their libido but didn’t post more details.
I will say in my case I am not really a high converter compared to the average online user, but it doesn’t take much E2 to not sit right with me, so it’s something I have to consider when doing all this as I still don’t want crashed E2. Oddly enough my erections are better on crashed E2 instead of even normal high, but yeah I feel like shit due to the crashed E2.
Hey buddy!
Welcome back!
Hello, hows it going with ur libido?
Eh. Still blah
I am currently running 45mg EOD. I do indeed have more sexual thoughts i have noticed. So i’m tinkering a bit.
Have u ever tried high estrogen? Im thinking one large shot of test e10d, and maybe adding some estrogen patch? Or are you 100% sure the problem for u is high e2 and not low e2 (relative, to your free test/dht?) ?
Ive read a study making me reconsider all of this, maybe low shbg guys have a problem of too high androgens relative to estrogens, instead of the other way around.
This is what makes me want to try DBol at some point just to rule this debate out finally.
Have you ever tried it?
Tried it, felt fucking super awesome. However, it is another “type” of estrogen, If I understood it correctly, IE its “way stronger” supposenly, but me personally I felt zero of the high E symptoms I had when I started doing test with just 250mg injections a week, so Im not fully convinced the dbol estrogen is “as bad” as the test-estrogen.
Either that, or we are freaking wrong about everything and estrogen is great (with high androgens), Im not sure no more.
I also listen alot to broderick chavez and in one particular podcast he said that back in the day ,they used to get vials of test + mixed in estrogen. The result was insane libido and strenght gains.
Soo yeaah… thats it.
Anyway, why Im questioning the low-shbg → high e2 theory is this:
According to this study: Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin and the Metabolic Syndrome | SpringerLink
SHBG preferentially binds to DHT with affinity 5 times more than Testosterone and 20 times more than Estradiol. So if a person has low SHBG they should have way more free DHT available than free E2 (ratio is 20:1 as per the affinities) which implies that the balance of DHT to E2 is skewed towards DHT and the said user should be feeling low E2 sides even when the blood work shows normal E2 levels.
IE: LOW SHBG = LESS shbg for the dht to bind to (just as for e2 to bind to) - However, given DHTs affinity of 20 (!!!) times more than estrogen, It will NOT create estrogen dominance, but DHT DOMINANCE (free e2 VS free DHT).
DHT is “anti estrogen” in most tissues, so you basically end up with TOO HIGH DHT and TOO low estrogen (even if estrogen levels are “normal” or even “high” in blood work).
What is the result of lowering estrogen in the few trt studies we have?
Less libido
Shittier mood
Less energy
Taking naps etc
I just put a friend of mine on estrogen patches (he is also low shbg like me, but he gets to be my experiment lab rat) - within 4 days his libido is high and he finally feels great with high testosterone.
Sooo … who knows?
Also: On my NPP only run, I had insane erections/libido - HOWEVER, and this is a big however, I had been running high test before that … and yes, I dropped the test, and after 2 weeks of droppin, I started injecting NPP. Within 2 days my libido was raging.
Okay okay … so that is 2 weeks of no test injections … so did I really have zero test, or DID I HAVE alot of test still in the system?
If I had no test, the conclusion is: NPP ONLY increased my libido and gave me insane erections.
IF I HAD TEST LEFT IN MY SYSTEM (Which I might have had, actually for a way longer time than 2 weeks …) - the NPP addition upregulated my estrogen receptors (as it has shown in studies) - Essentially “increasing my estrogen” (well, the strenght of the receptors) which MIGHT have been the reason for my libido spike.
At the end of the day, I dont fucking know, but it is indeed interesting things to think about.
Given the fact some of you (and me too btw), still struggle to find a 100% on point great TRT-dose where libido and everything is perfect … well, maybe we should try the other way around, that is, the upping-estrogen-theory, to see what happends.
Going to keep reading your post but just wanted to respond to the first part. I read it’s not like for like exactly the estrogen but still isn’t the aromitization being way higher with DBol still carry merit here?
I will say when I started TRT initially with a cookie cutter protocol that included HCG, the HCG initially gave me insane euphoria and cleared my brain fog, but then it sort of tapered off. Just pondering if it had to do with E2 or not.
Problem here for me, IF it’s the solution then T only therapy and even HCG included is a no go for me as it’s not enough.
It for sure does.
I would suggest you try get your hands on some estrogen patches, like that stuff women take in menopause. Try it on. I will probably do it soon enough.
Or just get some dbol, that is probably easier, lol.
But anyway, no, on dbol I felt awesome, despite the supposenly high estrogen that comes with it. And the strenght is out of this world, btw, test is NOTHING compared to dbol when it comes to strenght.