Best squat advice I’ve ever gotten came from this thread. All those “Rippers” should dip their Toes into Meaty, beefy, and bouncy instead.
Oh, and the deadlift advice was pretty darn good too.
Yup, thanks a load for your help on my squat - it’s going better now and hopefully will continue to do so.
Hope whatever problems you’ve run into sort themselves out. Have a good Christmas.
Hi Meat, hope you’re fairing better now that Christmas has come!
When you’re back, if you can critique my deadlift I’d much appreciate it.
First meet, 163lb BW, raw.
Deadlift attempt #2: 200kg (441lb) - Good lift
Deadlift attempt #3: 210kg (463lb) - Miss lift
The thought of changing over to sumo has recently entered my mind. It seems like pretty much all the lighter IPF world guys lift sumo. I wonder why this is??
Thanks!
Hey Meat, since you’re probably the strongest front squatter on here, I was wondering if you could impart some of your greatness onto my little old thread in the bodybuilding forum and see if you have anything to add. Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness
Dr. Meat:
After reading the interview with Paul Chek, I’m surprised you’ve gotten so far with your methods. How can you possibly squat to your potential without aroma therapy? I mean, you don’t even hang crystals from the squat rack.
Signed,
New Age Squattah
Hi Meat,
So, I finally managed to get my videos uploaded (and rotated correctly!). I am currently trying to change my squat technique from breaking at the knees first to breaking at the hips and trying to force the knees out and get some tension at depth. It’s slowly becoming less awkward. I have included three videos, one of the old squat tech for comparison:
And two of the new (and unfamiliar) technique:
and
Any critique is welcome - but mostly I wanted to know if I’m on the right track in switching. Coming from (Olympic) weightlifting, everyone breaks at the knees first, so as a lone aspiring powerlifter (will hopefully be competing raw in June), I could use some advice. I assume my bar path with the new style will become more consistent with time - this is one flaw I can identify now. If a maximal or near-maximal weight would be helpful, I can get on that in the next few weeks. Thanks for reading!
Edit: I tried embedding the videos with html tags, but it didn’t work. Can anyone tell me how to embed youtube videos here? Sorry about the links!
[quote]aut-x-rs wrote:
Hi Meat,
So, I finally managed to get my videos uploaded (and rotated correctly!). I am currently trying to change my squat technique from breaking at the knees first to breaking at the hips and trying to force the knees out and get some tension at depth. It’s slowly becoming less awkward. I have included three videos, one of the old squat tech for comparison:
And two of the new (and unfamiliar) technique:
and
Any critique is welcome - but mostly I wanted to know if I’m on the right track in switching. Coming from (Olympic) weightlifting, everyone breaks at the knees first, so as a lone aspiring powerlifter (will hopefully be competing raw in June), I could use some advice. I assume my bar path with the new style will become more consistent with time - this is one flaw I can identify now. If a maximal or near-maximal weight would be helpful, I can get on that in the next few weeks. Thanks for reading!
Edit: I tried embedding the videos with html tags, but it didn’t work. Can anyone tell me how to embed youtube videos here? Sorry about the links![/quote]
you are definitely on the right path. i can see you forcing your knees out on the way down and i’m assuming that you are forcing out on the way up because i don’t see them rolling in on you. but that could also be because the weight isn’t heavy for you.
if you want to switch to a powerlifting style of squat i would address the upper body position. olympic squatters take that high bar position and have those elbows way back there and as they rebound out of the hole the weight really shifts forward.
i would work on getting the elbows under the bar and forcing them forward as you come out of the hole. this will keep the weight centered more over the hips and keep everything tight. using an olympic style of squatting, tightness isn’t as big of an issue becuase you are being so explosive and using that rebound/stretch reflex. if you want to build tension in the hips by forcing your knees out the movement is going to slow down significantly. when that happens you really need to stay tight throughout the lift.
i would like to see a squat with a near max weight to see what your upper body does and to see if your knees roll in.
definitely on the right track though.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
you are definitely on the right path. i can see you forcing your knees out on the way down and i’m assuming that you are forcing out on the way up because i don’t see them rolling in on you. but that could also be because the weight isn’t heavy for you.
if you want to switch to a powerlifting style of squat i would address the upper body position. olympic squatters take that high bar position and have those elbows way back there and as they rebound out of the hole the weight really shifts forward.
i would work on getting the elbows under the bar and forcing them forward as you come out of the hole. this will keep the weight centered more over the hips and keep everything tight. using an olympic style of squatting, tightness isn’t as big of an issue becuase you are being so explosive and using that rebound/stretch reflex. if you want to build tension in the hips by forcing your knees out the movement is going to slow down significantly. when that happens you really need to stay tight throughout the lift.
i would like to see a squat with a near max weight to see what your upper body does and to see if your knees roll in.
definitely on the right track though. [/quote]
Meat,
Thanks for your critique. I haven’t given any thought to forcing the knees out on the ascent, but will keep it in mind going forward. (I’m also experiencing some groin pain from squatting from the first time, which I take as a sure if uncomfortable sign that my knees are really being forced out.) I will also try to experiment with different grip widths, as the current narrow grip really doesn’t allow me to get my elbows further forward, barring acts of extreme contortionism and/or yoga classes. I realize the point is to drive with the elbows, but I’ll have to see what grip allows me to do this best.
I’ll get under a heavier weight in about a weeks’ time, and look forward to your critique of the resulting video. Thanks!
Hey Meat, hope everything is going well with you. From the looks of your training, it is! Nice work on that reverse bench the other day.
As you know, I had my first full PL meet last weekend, and I was hoping you could provide feedback on my video. You’ve been a great help to me in getting prepped for this thing, and I really appreciate it. I won my weight class with a 1300 total. Now I guess I just gotta go out there and beat that, right!
Here is the vid:
Any feedback you could please provide, I would be most appreciative. I have a lot of work to do on my bench I believe (my legs especially). I feel like my deadlift has improved a lot since I worked with you guys, but I notice I don’t start with a straight arm here, as I bend it a bit before the pull (maybe). Those were the two most glaring items to me, but I’m sure you can find some more.
Thanks again for all your help man. Look forward to coming out there again soon. Take it easy.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Hey Meat, hope everything is going well with you. From the looks of your training, it is! Nice work on that reverse bench the other day.
As you know, I had my first full PL meet last weekend, and I was hoping you could provide feedback on my video. You’ve been a great help to me in getting prepped for this thing, and I really appreciate it. I won my weight class with a 1300 total. Now I guess I just gotta go out there and beat that, right!
Here is the vid:
Any feedback you could please provide, I would be most appreciative. I have a lot of work to do on my bench I believe (my legs especially). I feel like my deadlift has improved a lot since I worked with you guys, but I notice I don’t start with a straight arm here, as I bend it a bit before the pull (maybe). Those were the two most glaring items to me, but I’m sure you can find some more.
Thanks again for all your help man. Look forward to coming out there again soon. Take it easy.[/quote]
hey hoss,
again… great job on the meet!!! you definitely have a lot of potential. sorry for not responding sooner.
i was going to say that if you want feedback you had to head back up to the gym:) but i’ll give you a few pointers. it’s kinda hard though because i feel like on the deadlift the weight was still too light for you. but here goes…
on squat the only glaring issue is that as the weight got heavier you weren’t pushing out on your knees on the way up. you could see them rolling in on the way up. other than that, you have pretty good form. definitely great depth.
on bench, yeah, you have zero leg drive. you’ll have to come up to see us to work on that. it’s really hard to give points on leg drive over the computer. all i can say is experiment on getting your feet back closer to your head. if you want to go flat footed your placement should be where you have to actively force your heels down to keep them on the floor. you also look like you need to work on tightness and getting more of an arch. like i said, you need to head up and have us work with you on this stuff.
deadlift- the weight looked way too light for you. once you get to an actual max attempt then i would be able to see form issues. as it is, you need to get the hips through faster. with that weight you were lifting your lockout should have been really forceful. i can tell that you’ve been working on it though. your form is much better than it was when you started working on it with us.
continue to work on getting the slack out of the bar before ripping it.
overall… awesome job hoss.
Hi Meat,
I’m a very long time lurker, but I thought I’d take a chance and actually post since you give such good advice. I have some questions about the westside principles because it’s kind of confusing even though I’ve read a lot of the logs/articles at elitfts and westside-barbell. I’m not exactly sure how to program it and if it’s an appropiate way to train for me with the currently maxes of 265 bench, 225 squat, 345 deadlift (dislocated my knee and tore my acl in the summer then had a really badly failed surgery and infected knee). Right now my current training schedule is:
Day 1
ME Bench (rotate every 3 weeks) Full ROM Bench/Floor Press/Incline Press/CG Press)
Heavy Tricep Movement 3-4x3-6(CG Bench/Reverse Grip Bench/Skull Crushers)
Delt 3-4x6-8 (OH Press)
Lats 3-4x8-10 (DB Rows/BB Rows)
Day 2
Squat/Deadlift/AB Day (I’m just trying to get back in the groove so I’m not following westside principles)
Day 3
DE Bench 8-10x3
RE DB Bench 3xFailure (about 12-15 reps)
Light Tricep Movement 3-4x8-10 (Skull Crushers)
Delts 3-4x8-10 (Rear Delt Flyes)
Lats 3-4x8-10 (weighted Pull ups)
Day 4
Squat/Deadlift/AB Day
Sorry for just throwing a program at you but I’m not sure if I’m going about things the right way. I keep seeing bits and pieces of information in articles but it’s hard to grasp everything. Another question is about the ME day. Are you supposed to work up to a full 1RM (i.e. 100%)? Is it okay to fail an attempt at a 1RM or should I go for my perceived 1RM for that day and not take a chance in failing.
Thanks for any advice you give.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
hey hoss,
again… great job on the meet!!! you definitely have a lot of potential. sorry for not responding sooner.
i was going to say that if you want feedback you had to head back up to the gym:) but i’ll give you a few pointers. it’s kinda hard though because i feel like on the deadlift the weight was still too light for you. but here goes…
on squat the only glaring issue is that as the weight got heavier you weren’t pushing out on your knees on the way up. you could see them rolling in on the way up. other than that, you have pretty good form. definitely great depth.
on bench, yeah, you have zero leg drive. you’ll have to come up to see us to work on that. it’s really hard to give points on leg drive over the computer. all i can say is experiment on getting your feet back closer to your head. if you want to go flat footed your placement should be where you have to actively force your heels down to keep them on the floor. you also look like you need to work on tightness and getting more of an arch. like i said, you need to head up and have us work with you on this stuff.
deadlift- the weight looked way too light for you. once you get to an actual max attempt then i would be able to see form issues. as it is, you need to get the hips through faster. with that weight you were lifting your lockout should have been really forceful. i can tell that you’ve been working on it though. your form is much better than it was when you started working on it with us.
continue to work on getting the slack out of the bar before ripping it.
overall… awesome job hoss.
[/quote]
Hey Meat! I didn’t even see you respond to this thread. It didn’t show up in my HUB for some reason and I had forgotten about it.
Thank you very much for the feedback and the kind words. I busted my ass preparing for this thing, but I couldn’t have done as well as I did if you guys hadn’t offered your veteran advice and tips, and graciously helped me with my form issues. Thank you all.
I’d really like to get back out there and lift with you guys. I am currently doing V-Diet to cut down and see if I can drop a weight class, or at least get to the point where I am not filling out the 275# with useless mass. Kind of playing around with my weight right now to see where I am most comfortable lifting at.
But I’m going to start going balls out again when I’m done at the end of the month.
Are you and the guys still doing the meet in Fredericksburg the first weekend in May? I’m not going to lift in it as I will just be finishing up the diet, but I’m definitely going to head down there and watch. Seems like a bunch of guys from this site are gonna be there too.
Dear Meat -
Since you are the reigning King of the Front Squat, I have a question for ya!
Recently cycling front squats back into the leg routine.
I don’t know if it’s a conditioning issue or maybe a form issue, I’m finding that the weight is crushing my breath more than taxing my legs.
I can get 3 reps of a weight that my legs feel like I have another 2 or 3 but I just don’t have the breath for it. If I try to get a big breath after 3 reps or so I just feel like the bar is crushing my lungs and forcing the air out. I have to rack to recover breath-wise but not from leg fatigue.
Have you experienced this type of thing?
I’ll try to get vid in the next week or so. I front squat with arms crossed in front, elbows high, bar on clavicles and up against my fat neck (else I lose the weight forward).
Thanks DOOD!
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Dear Meat -
Since you are the reigning King of the Front Squat, I have a question for ya!
Recently cycling front squats back into the leg routine.
I don’t know if it’s a conditioning issue or maybe a form issue, I’m finding that the weight is crushing my breath more than taxing my legs.
I can get 3 reps of a weight that my legs feel like I have another 2 or 3 but I just don’t have the breath for it. If I try to get a big breath after 3 reps or so I just feel like the bar is crushing my lungs and forcing the air out. I have to rack to recover breath-wise but not from leg fatigue.
Have you experienced this type of thing?
I’ll try to get vid in the next week or so. I front squat with arms crossed in front, elbows high, bar on clavicles and up against my fat neck (else I lose the weight forward).
Thanks DOOD!
[/quote]
i know exactly what you are talking about. you CAN"T breath if you are front squatting heavy. I train myself every time i lift to hold my breath longer and longer and to get more air in. When i bench, i don’t exhale until i finish my set…no matter the reps. that’s the biggest way i train myself to hold my breath. this also has the benefit of keeping you tight throughout the set…especially on bench.
back to front squats. i take a deep breath before unracking and then i hold it throughout the entire set. you can’t exhale and expect to get any air in if it’s a heavy set. you just need to train yourself to take in more air and hold it longer.
iv’e gotten really good at knowing just how long i can push it until i pass out. suprisingly i come closest to passing out on military presses. I take in a deep breath, step out and do my entire set on one breath. it’s the only way i can do my heaviest sets. it’s funny though because my periperal vision starts to close in and it’s like a set of double doors closing. many times i’ve fallen forward into the hooks just as i start to passout.
good times.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Dear Meat -
Since you are the reigning King of the Front Squat, I have a question for ya!
Recently cycling front squats back into the leg routine.
I don’t know if it’s a conditioning issue or maybe a form issue, I’m finding that the weight is crushing my breath more than taxing my legs.
I can get 3 reps of a weight that my legs feel like I have another 2 or 3 but I just don’t have the breath for it. If I try to get a big breath after 3 reps or so I just feel like the bar is crushing my lungs and forcing the air out. I have to rack to recover breath-wise but not from leg fatigue.
Have you experienced this type of thing?
I’ll try to get vid in the next week or so. I front squat with arms crossed in front, elbows high, bar on clavicles and up against my fat neck (else I lose the weight forward).
Thanks DOOD!
[/quote]
i know exactly what you are talking about. you CAN"T breath if you are front squatting heavy. I train myself every time i lift to hold my breath longer and longer and to get more air in. When i bench, i don’t exhale until i finish my set…no matter the reps. that’s the biggest way i train myself to hold my breath. this also has the benefit of keeping you tight throughout the set…especially on bench.
back to front squats. i take a deep breath before unracking and then i hold it throughout the entire set. you can’t exhale and expect to get any air in if it’s a heavy set. you just need to train yourself to take in more air and hold it longer.
iv’e gotten really good at knowing just how long i can push it until i pass out. suprisingly i come closest to passing out on military presses. I take in a deep breath, step out and do my entire set on one breath. it’s the only way i can do my heaviest sets. it’s funny though because my periperal vision starts to close in and it’s like a set of double doors closing. many times i’ve fallen forward into the hooks just as i start to passout.
good times.
[/quote]
Good stuff, Meat — THANKS!!
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Dear Meat -
Since you are the reigning King of the Front Squat, I have a question for ya!
Recently cycling front squats back into the leg routine.
I don’t know if it’s a conditioning issue or maybe a form issue, I’m finding that the weight is crushing my breath more than taxing my legs.
I can get 3 reps of a weight that my legs feel like I have another 2 or 3 but I just don’t have the breath for it. If I try to get a big breath after 3 reps or so I just feel like the bar is crushing my lungs and forcing the air out. I have to rack to recover breath-wise but not from leg fatigue.
Have you experienced this type of thing?
I’ll try to get vid in the next week or so. I front squat with arms crossed in front, elbows high, bar on clavicles and up against my fat neck (else I lose the weight forward).
Thanks DOOD!
[/quote]
i know exactly what you are talking about. you CAN"T breath if you are front squatting heavy. I train myself every time i lift to hold my breath longer and longer and to get more air in. When i bench, i don’t exhale until i finish my set…no matter the reps. that’s the biggest way i train myself to hold my breath. this also has the benefit of keeping you tight throughout the set…especially on bench.
back to front squats. i take a deep breath before unracking and then i hold it throughout the entire set. you can’t exhale and expect to get any air in if it’s a heavy set. you just need to train yourself to take in more air and hold it longer.
iv’e gotten really good at knowing just how long i can push it until i pass out. suprisingly i come closest to passing out on military presses. I take in a deep breath, step out and do my entire set on one breath. it’s the only way i can do my heaviest sets. it’s funny though because my periperal vision starts to close in and it’s like a set of double doors closing. many times i’ve fallen forward into the hooks just as i start to passout.
good times.
[/quote]
Good stuff, Meat — THANKS!![/quote]
Steely,
For what it’s worth, I use to have the same problem when I would do heavy front squats. Doing more then three reps killed me. What helped me was to increase the number of sets. So instead of doing something like 5 X 5, I did 8 or 9 sets of 3 reps. The volume ends up the same. This seemed to help me. I read this advice in a Bill Starr article.
Dr. Meat -
I’m tossing around the idea of ‘bench specialization’ for a couple months. There’s a meet coming up and I may do “bench only (raw)” as there is no ‘bench/squat’ option and I don’t even want to talk about my deadlifting 
What recommendations could you give for preparation. I think I’m about 10 weeks out. Just need something to think about.
PeteS-- If you’re reading, please chime in.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Dr. Meat -
I’m tossing around the idea of ‘bench specialization’ for a couple months. There’s a meet coming up and I may do “bench only (raw)” as there is no ‘bench/squat’ option and I don’t even want to talk about my deadlifting
What recommendations could you give for preparation. I think I’m about 10 weeks out. Just need something to think about.
PeteS-- If you’re reading, please chime in.[/quote]
you could almost definitely do both squat and bench. it would just be individually. but you can also choose to do bench only. just realize that you would then be known as a BOF. can you live with that discrace??
if you are only 10 weeks i would do anything too drastic. i would definitely make everything else more of hypertrophy work such as squats and deads. i would keep all that stuff higher rep.
for bench i would need to see a near max attempt using a competition set up and competition pause to help focus your training.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Dr. Meat -
I’m tossing around the idea of ‘bench specialization’ for a couple months. There’s a meet coming up and I may do “bench only (raw)” as there is no ‘bench/squat’ option and I don’t even want to talk about my deadlifting
What recommendations could you give for preparation. I think I’m about 10 weeks out. Just need something to think about.
PeteS-- If you’re reading, please chime in.[/quote]
you could almost definitely do both squat and bench. it would just be individually. but you can also choose to do bench only. just realize that you would then be known as a BOF. can you live with that discrace??
if you are only 10 weeks i would do anything too drastic. i would definitely make everything else more of hypertrophy work such as squats and deads. i would keep all that stuff higher rep.
for bench i would need to see a near max attempt using a competition set up and competition pause to help focus your training.
[/quote]
I guess “BOF” is better than just plain ol’ “F”
Potential meet is, I think, May 7 (APF/WPC), so that’s my timeframe. The only thing that might curtail that is that it is also my daughter’s church confirmation service early evening. Don’t know if the meet will be done by then.
Either way, I want to train for it and be prepared to do it that day.
I’ll try to get vid next bench session-- thanks!
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Dr. Meat -
I’m tossing around the idea of ‘bench specialization’ for a couple months. There’s a meet coming up and I may do “bench only (raw)” as there is no ‘bench/squat’ option and I don’t even want to talk about my deadlifting
What recommendations could you give for preparation. I think I’m about 10 weeks out. Just need something to think about.
PeteS-- If you’re reading, please chime in.[/quote]
you could almost definitely do both squat and bench. it would just be individually. but you can also choose to do bench only. just realize that you would then be known as a BOF. can you live with that discrace??
if you are only 10 weeks i would do anything too drastic. i would definitely make everything else more of hypertrophy work such as squats and deads. i would keep all that stuff higher rep.
for bench i would need to see a near max attempt using a competition set up and competition pause to help focus your training.
[/quote]
Steely,
I agree with this 100% and is exactly in line with what I pm’d you. Like I said though I would have 2-3 benching variations to rotate in just to prevent burn out or injury.