Federal Lawsuit For Being Tasered

Off Topic
61

[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.

Here is the crux of our dissagreement. I view the above statement to be a complete trampling of my rights as a human being. If a cop walks up to my front door and tells me to come out of the house right now, doesn’t say anything else, and just keeps ordering me to, I’m telling him to get the fuck off my lawn. You do not do whatever anyone tells you to, every situation requires human beings to act like humans and not robots or animals, lets use our brains and our skills to communicate with eachother. I mean if you want to look at the officers safety, he INCREASED his chance of getting shot. How does the cop know that the guy didn’t have a really bad fucking day and the next asshole cop or otherwise who fucks with the guy is the one the guy is going to shoot at. I mean at some point the cop should have just told the guy why he pulled him over, it’s not like the guy was requesting a million dollars.

V

These are two different situations. If a cop came to my house and didn’t have a warrant I would tell him to leave as well. When a cop pulls me over; however, I know, like everyone else, to sit in my car and get my license and registration out. You and I gave up some of our rights, or rather had our rights given up by previous generations, in order to create a society with rules and consequences. This guy should have followed the rules and he would not have paid the consequences.

Wrong again, My father, which is one generation before me, has told NUMEROUS stories of him and his buddies getting pulled over barely able to walk they were so drunk, and having the cop either follow them home, or give them a ride home. No tickets, no beatings, no harrasment. This behavior by police is NEW and it is getting worse. They are trying to take away our rights and people like you will thet them people like myself and some of the others who are speaking out against them will fight for our rights. Like Polo said, until I am told I am under arrest, I’ll do whatever the fuck I please. Thats not saying I’m going to act like this guy, but I am well equipped to stand up for my own rights.

V[/quote]

V,

One generation before us did not have drive bys with tech 9’s, uzis, or fully automatic weapons. There was mutual respect between officers and citizens just one generation ago. The citizens starting believing that their rights are more important than the police officers rights.

Try getting out of your car next time you get pulled over. It is your right. I cant wait to see you get tazed.

62

That is the worst argument I have heard in this entire thread.

63

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly.

I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior.

I agree with this, if it’s reasonable such as in this video I have no problem with it, my problem is when statements like “do what cops say or else” appear indicating that no matter what a cop says, you should do it.

Who said anything about “or else”[/quote]

Your original comment about following police orders and MaximusB’s comments seem to imply that if you don’t, you should expect violent consequences for not saying “yessir” and staring at your feet like a good little citizen.

64

[quote]JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly.

I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior.

I agree with this, if it’s reasonable such as in this video I have no problem with it, my problem is when statements like “do what cops say or else” appear indicating that no matter what a cop says, you should do it.

Who said anything about “or else”

Your original comment about following police orders and MaximusB’s comments seem to imply that if you don’t, you should expect violent consequences for not saying “yessir” and staring at your feet like a good little citizen.[/quote]

I guess I just have a certain respect for authority.

65

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly.

I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior.

I agree with this, if it’s reasonable such as in this video I have no problem with it, my problem is when statements like “do what cops say or else” appear indicating that no matter what a cop says, you should do it.

Who said anything about “or else”

Your original comment about following police orders and MaximusB’s comments seem to imply that if you don’t, you should expect violent consequences for not saying “yessir” and staring at your feet like a good little citizen.

I guess I just have a certain respect for authority.[/quote]

Thats all fine and good and I’m not trying to encourage anyone to not respect polcie officers, but they need to have respect also. If you just do whatever a cop tells you and you have no recourse but to get tazered then the slippery slope of tyranny is well under way.

Hell we already have people in this thread admitting that the cops are worse today than they were in my fathers generation. I’m not sold that it’s because of drive by shootings either. We are not looking for the cops to have no weapons and get shit on and essentially be like mall cops.

But I do expect them to use thier power very carefully and always use force as a last resort. Whatever happened to that idea?

V

66

He was not doing what somebody pulled over is supposed to do. He also screamed like a 5 year old girl so im not taking his side.

67

[quote]im kenny wrote:
He was not doing what somebody pulled over is supposed to do. He also screamed like a 5 year old girl so im not taking his side.[/quote]

Lol to be fair I think something was distorting the voices since you can hear the cop saying “roll over” or “stop resisting” in a very chip-munkish voice as well.

68

I think we all agree that undue force should be used as a last resort.

Why do you think the tazer was invented in the first place? There is no real evidence that tazers kill people. They are suppose to immobilization and defuse the situation.

Police tried pepper spray but we all know what happens when you pee into the wind. A tazer only hurts the person who it is directed at. I just dont think the guy should have gotten out of his car. Wait till the police officer asks you to get out of the car.

I have also never had a cop give me a ticket without first telling me what I did. Be patient the officer will tell you.

69

[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior.

I agree with this, if it’s reasonable such as in this video I have no problem with it, my problem is when statements like “do what cops say or else” appear indicating that no matter what a cop says, you should do it.

Who said anything about “or else”

Your original comment about following police orders and MaximusB’s comments seem to imply that if you don’t, you should expect violent consequences for not saying “yessir” and staring at your feet like a good little citizen.

I guess I just have a certain respect for authority.

Thats all fine and good and I’m not trying to encourage anyone to not respect polcie officers, but they need to have respect also. If you just do whatever a cop tells you and you have no recourse but to get tazered then the slippery slope of tyranny is well under way. Hell we already have people in this thread admitting that the cops are worse today than they were in my fathers generation. I’m not sold that it’s because of drive by shootings either. We are not looking for the cops to have no weapons and get shit on and essentially be like mall cops. But I do expect them to use thier power very carefully and always use force as a last resort. Whatever happened to that idea?

V[/quote]

Well,a bigger question is whatever happened to using common sense,respect,and patience before getting caught up in the ego of “knowing your rights?” Probably somewhere shooting up meth with personal responsibility.

70

[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior.

I agree with this, if it’s reasonable such as in this video I have no problem with it, my problem is when statements like “do what cops say or else” appear indicating that no matter what a cop says, you should do it.

Who said anything about “or else”

Your original comment about following police orders and MaximusB’s comments seem to imply that if you don’t, you should expect violent consequences for not saying “yessir” and staring at your feet like a good little citizen.

I guess I just have a certain respect for authority.

Thats all fine and good and I’m not trying to encourage anyone to not respect polcie officers, but they need to have respect also. If you just do whatever a cop tells you and you have no recourse but to get tazered then the slippery slope of tyranny is well under way. Hell we already have people in this thread admitting that the cops are worse today than they were in my fathers generation. I’m not sold that it’s because of drive by shootings either. We are not looking for the cops to have no weapons and get shit on and essentially be like mall cops. But I do expect them to use thier power very carefully and always use force as a last resort. Whatever happened to that idea?

V[/quote]

Agreed cops should be respectful as well.

I am a bit hesitant to compare police abuse of power and tyranny, but that is just my opinion and I think the idea of force as a last resort is all fine and good, but in some places its just not possible. For example, I grew up in or close to Baltimore city and there are nearly 200 murders here a year. That’s not to mention other crimes, like the 8 rapes over the last 2 weeks. If the police are nonchalant about dealing with people they pull over they could easily become a statistic and I seriously doubt any of them or there families want that.

This is off topic, but remember its not like there is a cop for every citizen in the country. I believe, but am not sure in most places there is only 1 cop per 200+ people or something like that. That not good odds for the boys in blue that are suppose to keep order. Just look at some of or major cities.

71

The issue isn’t that he got out of his car, that debate is over with. The question now is; was excessive force used and were his civil liberties violated?

72

[quote]PaddyM wrote:
The issue isn’t that he got out of his car, that debate is over with. The question now is; was excessive force used and were his civil liberties violated?[/quote]

Him getting out of the car and his resulting behavior is going to be integral in determining if his civil rights were violated.

73

[quote]PaddyM wrote:
The issue isn’t that he got out of his car, that debate is over with. The question now is; was excessive force used and were his civil liberties violated?[/quote]

That is difficult to answer going on what the video showed. I think the initial hit was justified. The cop gave him over 3 minutes to comply and he did not. After that it is hard to see anything so I won’t comment on excessive force.

74

lol When will people ever learn. Don’t fuck with the cops. If your going to sue em, well good then sue em.

But in the moment, when they are standing there, sanctimonious, trigger happy and hopped up on adrenaline, be as compliant and relaxed as you possibly can.
It’s the only good way to handle it. Follow orders, show em your hands, and be fucking polite because whether your guilty of something or not, your dealing with someone who can kill you and make up any story they like. They can ruin your life in an instant, and they don’t care a bit if they do or not. Now how wise is it to screw around with someone like that?

Guys, let’s just face it. There are LOT of bad cops out there. We hear about it constantly. Police shoot innocent people, blow away family dogs, lie to obtain search warrants, frame defendants, physically abuse suspects, rob suspects, tamper with evidence, shoot deaf people that can’t follow their orders, beat up and harrass the homeless.

I look at a cop as being more or less just like a mugger. You never know when they are going to strike, and if you don’t give em exactly what they want, chances are you might not survive the encounter.

lol A cop stole my wallet once.

I saw this video online that showed a handcuffed woman getting beaten within an inch of her life. A large pool of blood spread out all around the body of that woman, but the cop kept right on going. Finally he just walked off and left her like that. This is the police. That’s what they do, and youhave to stay away form them as much as humanly possible or you could easily be next.

75

so, he had a crocked license plate and that means the cop gets to order a person to do as he feels?

they are supposed to serve the public, not the other way around. They are supposed to answer to us, not the other way around.

The cops were the ones escalating the situation anyway.

76

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
PaddyM wrote:
The issue isn’t that he got out of his car, that debate is over with. The question now is; was excessive force used and were his civil liberties violated?

That is difficult to answer going on what the video showed. I think the initial hit was justified. The cop gave him over 3 minutes to comply and he did not. After that it is hard to see anything so I won’t comment on excessive force. [/quote]

What if you are walking to your car and a cop approaches you and tells you, Get in your car? I mean lets just change the scenario a little bit here. You guys are acting like a man out of his car is kryptonite to a cop or something. Say you are standing next to your car and a cop rolls up and wants to question you, does he tell you to get in your car? No he stands there and talks to you. The cop could have CHOSEN to talk to the guy other than ordering him to get in the car and there is a POSSIBILITY, (highlighted for BB) that the situation would have ended with nobody getting tazered.

V

77

[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.

Here is the crux of our dissagreement. I view the above statement to be a complete trampling of my rights as a human being. If a cop walks up to my front door and tells me to come out of the house right now, doesn’t say anything else, and just keeps ordering me to, I’m telling him to get the fuck off my lawn. You do not do whatever anyone tells you to, every situation requires human beings to act like humans and not robots or animals, lets use our brains and our skills to communicate with eachother. I mean if you want to look at the officers safety, he INCREASED his chance of getting shot. How does the cop know that the guy didn’t have a really bad fucking day and the next asshole cop or otherwise who fucks with the guy is the one the guy is going to shoot at. I mean at some point the cop should have just told the guy why he pulled him over, it’s not like the guy was requesting a million dollars.

V[/quote]

Vegita- I could not agree with you more. You said it perfectly. Just because the law might give another person authority over you, doesn’t mean you have to be their bitch. Each man has a God given right as a human to control himself and just because somebody is a cop doesn’t give them the right to boss others around (not just talking about this situation).

I was running with some guys on my team one day and a cop didn’t like the fact that of where we were running, but WE HAD DONE NOTHING WRONG/ILLEGAL. So this fat-ass tries to ticket us, he had no right to he was just a douche who liked to exercise his power. When he ordered me over to his car, I bent down, tied my shoe and we all scattered. We are fricken college runners and tubby thought he could catch us.
Things like that give me and many others a great distaste for the police.

78

[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
PaddyM wrote:
The issue isn’t that he got out of his car, that debate is over with. The question now is; was excessive force used and were his civil liberties violated?

That is difficult to answer going on what the video showed. I think the initial hit was justified. The cop gave him over 3 minutes to comply and he did not. After that it is hard to see anything so I won’t comment on excessive force.

What if you are walking to your car and a cop approaches you and tells you, Get in your car? I mean lets just change the scenario a little bit here. You guys are acting like a man out of his car is kryptonite to a cop or something. Say you are standing next to your car and a cop rolls up and wants to question you, does he tell you to get in your car? No he stands there and talks to you. The cop could have CHOSEN to talk to the guy other than ordering him to get in the car and there is a POSSIBILITY, (highlighted for BB) that the situation would have ended with nobody getting tazered.

V[/quote]

You completely changed the scenario to where it doesn’t even apply to the situation being discussed.

79

And don’t give me this tactical advantage bullshit. Can a cop bust into a chuck-E-cheese and start ordering people to lay on the ground because he needs to get a tactical advantage while ordering his pizza and fries? After all, an angry parent might walk up behind him and hit him over the head with a whack a mole mallet. Cops have to respect OUR rights as civillians even if it puts them in harms way. THAT is thier job, if the pressure is too much for them and thier family, then fucking quit. If too many eventually quit, then the demand for them will go up and the pay will also, then people will take the higher risk for more pay.

V

80

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
PaddyM wrote:
The issue isn’t that he got out of his car, that debate is over with. The question now is; was excessive force used and were his civil liberties violated?

That is difficult to answer going on what the video showed. I think the initial hit was justified. The cop gave him over 3 minutes to comply and he did not. After that it is hard to see anything so I won’t comment on excessive force.

What if you are walking to your car and a cop approaches you and tells you, Get in your car? I mean lets just change the scenario a little bit here. You guys are acting like a man out of his car is kryptonite to a cop or something. Say you are standing next to your car and a cop rolls up and wants to question you, does he tell you to get in your car? No he stands there and talks to you. The cop could have CHOSEN to talk to the guy other than ordering him to get in the car and there is a POSSIBILITY, (highlighted for BB) that the situation would have ended with nobody getting tazered.

V

You completely changed the scenario to where it doesn’t even apply to the situation being discussed. [/quote]

How? In both scenarios a cop is still dealing with a person standing next to a car? Does it really matter how the person got to that point?

V