Federal Lawsuit For Being Tasered

Off Topic
41

[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.

Here is the crux of our dissagreement. I view the above statement to be a complete trampling of my rights as a human being. If a cop walks up to my front door and tells me to come out of the house right now, doesn’t say anything else, and just keeps ordering me to, I’m telling him to get the fuck off my lawn. You do not do whatever anyone tells you to, every situation requires human beings to act like humans and not robots or animals, lets use our brains and our skills to communicate with eachother. I mean if you want to look at the officers safety, he INCREASED his chance of getting shot. How does the cop know that the guy didn’t have a really bad fucking day and the next asshole cop or otherwise who fucks with the guy is the one the guy is going to shoot at. I mean at some point the cop should have just told the guy why he pulled him over, it’s not like the guy was requesting a million dollars.

V

These are two different situations. If a cop came to my house and didn’t have a warrant I would tell him to leave as well. When a cop pulls me over; however, I know, like everyone else, to sit in my car and get my license and registration out. You and I gave up some of our rights, or rather had our rights given up by previous generations, in order to create a society with rules and consequences. This guy should have followed the rules and he would not have paid the consequences.

Wrong again, My father, which is one generation before me, has told NUMEROUS stories of him and his buddies getting pulled over barely able to walk they were so drunk, and having the cop either follow them home, or give them a ride home. No tickets, no beatings, no harrasment. This behavior by police is NEW and it is getting worse. They are trying to take away our rights and people like you will thet them people like myself and some of the others who are speaking out against them will fight for our rights. Like Polo said, until I am told I am under arrest, I’ll do whatever the fuck I please. Thats not saying I’m going to act like this guy, but I am well equipped to stand up for my own rights.

V[/quote]

I’m not wrong just because times have changed. Driving under the influence of alcohol has been cracked down on in recent years/decades. Just because cops accepted it more in the past doesn’t mean the cops were right or wrong for it. I mean that’s like saying smoking doesn’t cause cancer because my dad/granddad smoked for 50 years and didn’t get it. That’s great and all, but many people have died from smoking. Does that make sense?

The problem is this guy WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ARRESTED if he had acted like an adult and done what he was suppose to. He got out of the car, situation was escalated, testosterone raise, and shit happened.

Oh and my guess is more police officers are shot and killed in this day and age then in generations past because, maybe you don’t agree, but people don’t act the way they use to. People today don’t give a shit about anyone else at least in my opinion and are generally not respectful of anything.

42

[quote]JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.

This is my beef with these instances and the attitude of cops in general and, correct me if I’m wrong Vegita, but also what Vegita seems to find wrong with these situations. If the cop told you to take off your pants and finger your asshole while whinnying like a horse are you expect to do it simply because he’s a cop? You’re going to respond by saying well that’s ridiculous no cop would ever ask that but the fact is many cops DO make outlandish requests for seemingly no reason which leads to someone not listening.

EDIT: Posted before I saw Vegita’s response to the exact same quote.

Sorry, a citizen should do what a police officers says withing reason, is that better.

Do you have an example of an outlandish request a cop has made for no reason?

How about “Get out of the car so we can search it for no other reason than we’re bored and feel like exerting our authority over you”?

I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

43

This video of the guy who got tased by the Border Patrol, is a joke. They had probable cause, which will stand up in court, and he is viewed as being resistive and combative. Maybe you should have just let them search your car, and your face would not look like it has been through a Cuisinart.

44

[quote]Vegita wrote:

I can’t tell the future or have the ability to KNOW what would have happened, but are you denying there is a chance it would have diffused the situation? Are you claiming to KNOW what would have happened had the officer told him why he pulled him over? So it boils down then to what I said before, the officer chose not to respond to the requests of the man he was attempting to communicate with. This would have required no additional effort on the cops part, nor would it have comprimised his tactical position. He was already talking he just had to use a few different words. It is pretty logical that that MAY have helped the situation, so the cop choosing not to do so seems pretty sinister to me, or else just totally idiotic. Take your pick.

V[/quote]

Well the burden of proof is on you,my friend. You’re the one who stands by that the officer could have completely diffused this situation. Whether I agree or not has no bearing on what you claim.

Like I mentioned earlier,even if the officer had communicated to him about why he was pulled over(AFTER the driver escalated the situation)…what would have been different? Because of his actions,the officer will still see him as a threat. And what’s to say that the driver still doesn’t act confrontational…or even more aggressive after still getting a ticket or being searched??

The fact that you see the officer’s behavior as sinister or idiotic…yet don’t see this in the driver’s behavior just reeks of bias…because it doesn’t make sense for any other reason.

45

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans. [/quote]

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

46

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
This video of the guy who got tased by the Border Patrol, is a joke. They had probable cause, which will stand up in court, and he is viewed as being resistive and combative. Maybe you should have just let them search your car, and your face would not look like it has been through a Cuisinart.

[/quote]

What was their probable cause? He asked them to bring the dog back and let him see the “signal” for himself.

47

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
This video of the guy who got tased by the Border Patrol, is a joke. They had probable cause, which will stand up in court, and he is viewed as being resistive and combative. Maybe you should have just let them search your car, and your face would not look like it has been through a Cuisinart.

[/quote]

what was the probably cause for them to search his car? His request for the dog to re-indicate the probably cause was not excessive by any means, according to his recollection of course. I would like to see the video from the security cameras of the incident which will give us a better understanding of the situation.

48

[quote]polo77j wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
This video of the guy who got tased by the Border Patrol, is a joke. They had probable cause, which will stand up in court, and he is viewed as being resistive and combative. Maybe you should have just let them search your car, and your face would not look like it has been through a Cuisinart.

what was the probably cause for them to search his car? His request for the dog to re-indicate the probably cause was not excessive by any means, according to his recollection of course. I would like to see the video from the security cameras of the incident which will give us a better understanding of the situation.[/quote]

Watch the second video I posted, it has footage/audio from the pastor’s video camera as well as the station security cameras.

49

Do some of you actually think that this guy would have gotten back into his car when the officer told him his license plate was crooked? I highly doubt it. The guy was being aggressive.

The first tase may have been justified, but I think the necessity of the hits after that will get to a jury. These cases are usually thrown out if the victim was resisting arrest or ignoring commands, and the officers use the tazer in a reasonable manner. Yet, after they got him down, there were multiple officers and they were still using their tazers. It’s not clear in the video that the guy was still resisting arrest, and since he will argue that he wasn’t resisting arrest, it will not get thrown out. So it depends on what type of jury they get…

50

[quote]JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.[/quote]

How can the police protect the public then? I don’t really think the statement is ridiculous because if you have done nothing wrong there will, in most case, be no problem. It would be awesome if the cops knew the good guys from the bad, but as far as I know none of them can read minds.

The moment this guy got out of the car he made a mistake and had he just done as he was told he would have been fine. I would venture a guess and say in most case this is true.

In order to protect the public the police have to have some authority agreed? In my opinion the cops never bullied the guy in the original video because like I said all he had to do was follow a couple simple instructions and been on his way.

51

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:

I can’t tell the future or have the ability to KNOW what would have happened, but are you denying there is a chance it would have diffused the situation? Are you claiming to KNOW what would have happened had the officer told him why he pulled him over? So it boils down then to what I said before, the officer chose not to respond to the requests of the man he was attempting to communicate with. This would have required no additional effort on the cops part, nor would it have comprimised his tactical position. He was already talking he just had to use a few different words. It is pretty logical that that MAY have helped the situation, so the cop choosing not to do so seems pretty sinister to me, or else just totally idiotic. Take your pick.

V

Well the burden of proof is on you,my friend. You’re the one who stands by that the officer could have completely diffused this situation. Whether I agree or not has no bearing on what you claim.

Like I mentioned earlier,even if the officer had communicated to him about why he was pulled over(AFTER the driver escalated the situation)…what would have been different? Because of his actions,the officer will still see him as a threat. And what’s to say that the driver still doesn’t act confrontational…or even more aggressive after still getting a ticket or being searched??

The fact that you see the officer’s behavior as sinister or idiotic…yet don’t see this in the driver’s behavior just reeks of bias…because it doesn’t make sense for any other reason. [/quote]

Burdon of proof? There is no proof to be had, thats a shitty argument. You can dodge it all you want, but the cop could have tried to diffuse the situation with very little effort and he didn’t. Why do I have to prove that it would have ended with them sharing a beer at the pub later in order for the premise to still stand that the cop didn’t try to diffuse the situation and he could have?

And you continue to claim that I have some bias and don’t see the drivers behavior as idiotic. I have stated several times he didn’t help the situation, it’s not how I would have acted in that situation, but however I am willing to defend my fellow mans right to be stupid if he wants to. Being stupid should not get you tazered.

I feel like you are responding to what you want me to have posted instead of what I actually posted. Is this about the other thread? Do we need another hug?

V

52

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

How can the police protect the public then? I don’t really think the statement is ridiculous because if you have done nothing wrong there will, in most case, be no problem. It would be awesome if the cops knew the good guys from the bad, but as far as I know none of them can read minds.

The moment this guy got out of the car he made a mistake and had he just done as he was told he would have been fine. I would venture a guess and say in most case this is true.

In order to protect the public the police have to have some authority agreed? In my opinion the cops never bullied the guy in the original video because like I said all he had to do was follow a couple simple instructions and been on his way. [/quote]

I acknowledge the guy fucked up by getting out of his car and he kind of brought this on him self, however this general attitude of “do what cops tell you or else” sounds like the way people deal with faschist secret police or 3rd world civilians deal with guerillas “Oh we just do what they say and hope they’ll leave us alone”.

53

[quote]JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.[/quote]

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior.

54

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

How can the police protect the public then? I don’t really think the statement is ridiculous because if you have done nothing wrong there will, in most case, be no problem. It would be awesome if the cops knew the good guys from the bad, but as far as I know none of them can read minds.

The moment this guy got out of the car he made a mistake and had he just done as he was told he would have been fine. I would venture a guess and say in most case this is true.

In order to protect the public the police have to have some authority agreed? In my opinion the cops never bullied the guy in the original video because like I said all he had to do was follow a couple simple instructions and been on his way. [/quote]

Why is it against the law to get out of your car? It’s not and you can’t show where it is. It may be accepted as the safe and normal way to do things but I would shit myself if you found me the law where it says you cannot get out of your car during a traffic stop. You are arguing the guy was stupid, and no one is arguing that point, he was stupid, but you are not accepting the point that even stupid people have rights. Cops do not have the right to tazer someone for being stupid.

V

55

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior. [/quote]

I agree with this, if it’s reasonable such as in this video I have no problem with it, my problem is when statements like “do what cops say or else” appear indicating that no matter what a cop says, you should do it.

56

[quote]theOUTLAW wrote:

The first tase may have been justified, but I think the necessity of the hits after that will get to a jury. [/quote]

The initial taser shot didn’t really get the result that is expected(people go down when tasered properly). Therefore,the guy still could resist…but it’s not obvious he did so. It is hard to see what is going on in the vid when they have him down.

Although I can’t really say that they abused using the taser or not…I do agree it’s depended on too much at times.

57

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:

I can’t tell the future or have the ability to KNOW what would have happened, but are you denying there is a chance it would have diffused the situation? Are you claiming to KNOW what would have happened had the officer told him why he pulled him over? So it boils down then to what I said before, the officer chose not to respond to the requests of the man he was attempting to communicate with. This would have required no additional effort on the cops part, nor would it have comprimised his tactical position. He was already talking he just had to use a few different words. It is pretty logical that that MAY have helped the situation, so the cop choosing not to do so seems pretty sinister to me, or else just totally idiotic. Take your pick.

V

Well the burden of proof is on you,my friend. You’re the one who stands by that the officer could have completely diffused this situation. Whether I agree or not has no bearing on what you claim.

Like I mentioned earlier,even if the officer had communicated to him about why he was pulled over(AFTER the driver escalated the situation)…what would have been different? Because of his actions,the officer will still see him as a threat. And what’s to say that the driver still doesn’t act confrontational…or even more aggressive after still getting a ticket or being searched??

The fact that you see the officer’s behavior as sinister or idiotic…yet don’t see this in the driver’s behavior just reeks of bias…because it doesn’t make sense for any other reason.

Burdon of proof? There is no proof to be had, thats a shitty argument. You can dodge it all you want, but the cop could have tried to diffuse the situation with very little effort and he didn’t. Why do I have to prove that it would have ended with them sharing a beer at the pub later in order for the premise to still stand that the cop didn’t try to diffuse the situation and he could have?

And you continue to claim that I have some bias and don’t see the drivers behavior as idiotic. I have stated several times he didn’t help the situation, it’s not how I would have acted in that situation, but however I am willing to defend my fellow mans right to be stupid if he wants to. Being stupid should not get you tazered.

I feel like you are responding to what you want me to have posted instead of what I actually posted. Is this about the other thread? Do we need another hug?

V[/quote]

So this is all the officer’s fault because he can’t make assumptions like you do?? :wink:

AND…If being stupid can get you shot and killed by cops(or anybody else for that matter)…then why would being tasered be an exception…lol. Talk about shitty arguments.

58

Don’t taze me bro!

59

[quote]JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

How can the police protect the public then? I don’t really think the statement is ridiculous because if you have done nothing wrong there will, in most case, be no problem. It would be awesome if the cops knew the good guys from the bad, but as far as I know none of them can read minds.

The moment this guy got out of the car he made a mistake and had he just done as he was told he would have been fine. I would venture a guess and say in most case this is true.

In order to protect the public the police have to have some authority agreed? In my opinion the cops never bullied the guy in the original video because like I said all he had to do was follow a couple simple instructions and been on his way.

I acknowledge the guy fucked up by getting out of his car and he kind of brought this on him self, however this general attitude of “do what cops tell you or else” sounds like the way people deal with faschist secret police or 3rd world civilians deal with guerillas “Oh we just do what they say and hope they’ll leave us alone”. [/quote]

Really??

A police department or sheriffs department or whatever is the same as for example the Nazi secret police. Come on?

I’m pretty sure my local PD isn’t killing off American citizens or leading a revolution. In most cases if you just follow a police officers instructions nothing is going to happen.

Think about your job. If someone is a dick to you what do yo do? Chances are your a dick right back either to their face or behind their back. This is no different. This ass thought he was special and could talk to the police however he wanted, he was wrong. The police may be public servants, but they don’t deserve and don’t have to take peoples shit.

Now if in the video the CIA had pulled this guy over and executed him because he was out past curfew or talked back to the them I would be with you, but the police pulling a guy over probably just to tell him his license plate was messed up not so much.

60

[quote]JLu wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch the video (no volume), but I never said cops are always right. They make mistakes and should be dealt with accordingly. I just don’t think this is one of those times and what I have a real problem with is how many people shit all over the police when they have one of the most stressful hardest jobs on the planet and they don’t get shit for it. I mean a relatively small salary and an okay pension to deal with stuff that would scare the piss out of most Americans.

I’m not trying to say cops aren’t always right, because that’s obvious, my argument was with your comment “If a cop tells you to do something you do it” which is ridiculous because, as Vegita pointed out police are supposed to protect the public, not bully.

He already clarified that statement…and to add. A cop does have the right to give orders if it is within probable cause and within reason and ALLOWS him/her to perform their duties.

You know…like “get back IN your car.” Pretty much any request that is the result of that person’s PHYSICAL behavior is going to be within reason.

This is not the same as “get OUT of your car” situations…which a lot of them I do not agree with myself.

An officer can’t be the bully if he’s reacting to a person’s aggressive and unnecessary behavior.

I agree with this, if it’s reasonable such as in this video I have no problem with it, my problem is when statements like “do what cops say or else” appear indicating that no matter what a cop says, you should do it.[/quote]

Who said anything about “or else”