ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Cops have to respect OUR rights as civilians even if it puts them in harms way. THAT is their job, if the pressure is too much for them and their family, then fucking quit. If too many eventually quit, then the demand for them will go up and the pay will also, then people will take the higher risk for more pay.
V[/quote]
Oh,so now cops should just let people get out of their cars and approach them…fuck it if they get stabbed,shot,OR divert their attention for someone else to do it. That’s their duty,right? Good grief.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
so, he had a crocked license plate and that means the cop gets to order a person to do as he feels?
they are supposed to serve the public, not the other way around. They are supposed to answer to us, not the other way around.
The cops were the ones escalating the situation anyway.[/quote]
He wasn’t ordered around because of his plate he was ordered around because he got out of his car and approached the officers with his hands in his pockets. He escalated the situation not the cops.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V[/quote]
Why would you want to get out of your car?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
so, he had a crocked license plate and that means the cop gets to order a person to do as he feels?
they are supposed to serve the public, not the other way around. They are supposed to answer to us, not the other way around.
The cops were the ones escalating the situation anyway.
He wasn’t ordered around because of his plate he was ordered around because he got out of his car and approached the officers with his hands in his pockets. He escalated the situation not the cops. [/quote]
Like is being said, it isn’t illegal to get out of your car. he took his hands out of his pockets when asked. the only threatening person was the cop.
I don’t understand why getting out of his car makes him dangerous. Heaven forbid the cop have to approach a pedestrian, what with having to draw his gun on everyone he meets because they aren’t in a car.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
so, he had a crocked license plate and that means the cop gets to order a person to do as he feels?
they are supposed to serve the public, not the other way around. They are supposed to answer to us, not the other way around.
The cops were the ones escalating the situation anyway.
He wasn’t ordered around because of his plate he was ordered around because he got out of his car and approached the officers with his hands in his pockets. He escalated the situation not the cops. [/quote]
Here is the point you guys are missing. I can see your argument that the cop was initially startled and possibly thought something might be going down when the guy got out of the car with his one hand in pocket. The cop did the right thing by getting out and drawing his gun on the guy. Here is the main problem though, once you draw your gun on a guy, you really shouldn’t put it away until one of 2 things happen, you shoot someone, or the situation is diffused. Where the cop got fucked was that the guy called him out with the “are you going to shoot me?” thing. Now the cop is embarrased because, no obviously i’m not going to shoot you, but I still have my gun drawn on you, and no you aren’t a threat because if you were I would have shot you, umm… Oh I know, Tazer him.
The cop should have done one of two things, kept his gun drawn, and answered the question before issuing another command, or put his gun away and answered the question before issuing another command. The threat was over the minute the guy saw the gun and got his hand out of his pocket. After that the cop was just looking to punish him.
V
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
Why would you want to get out of your car?[/quote]
Why does it matter? Perhaps I had been driving non-stop for 8 hours on a road trip and could really use a stretch.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
so, he had a crocked license plate and that means the cop gets to order a person to do as he feels?
they are supposed to serve the public, not the other way around. They are supposed to answer to us, not the other way around.
The cops were the ones escalating the situation anyway.
He wasn’t ordered around because of his plate he was ordered around because he got out of his car and approached the officers with his hands in his pockets. He escalated the situation not the cops.
Here is the point you guys are missing. I can see your argument that the cop was initially startled and possibly thought something might be going down when the guy got out of the car with his one hand in pocket. The cop did the right thing by getting out and drawing his gun on the guy.
Here is the main problem though, once you draw your gun on a guy, you really shouldn’t put it away until one of 2 things happen, you shoot someone, or the situation is diffused. Where the cop got fucked was that the guy called him out with the “are you going to shoot me?” thing.
Now the cop is embarrased because, no obviously i’m not going to shoot you, but I still have my gun drawn on you, and no you aren’t a threat because if you were I would have shot you, umm… Oh I know, Tazer him.
The cop should have done one of two things, kept his gun drawn, and answered the question before issuing another command, or put his gun away and answered the question before issuing another command. The threat was over the minute the guy saw the gun and got his hand out of his pocket. After that the cop was just looking to punish him.
V[/quote]
I agree. I just think that it is more the duty of the cop to tell him why he got pulled over than for a non-threatening, law abiding citizen to take commands from a cop. The cop had more responsibility to answer the question of why more than the guy had to “obey.”
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
Why would you want to get out of your car?[/quote]
EXACTLY? What do you gain by getting out of your car without asked to do so? You can have a conversation just fine with your ass in your driver’s seat.
Hell,most people that don’t trust law enforcement usually decide to stay IN their car…not get out.
Incidentally or not(sarcasm) people guilty of something usually get OUT of their cars when stopped…or are just mentally handicapped(or just stupid).
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
dmaddox wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
Why would you want to get out of your car?
EXACTLY? What do you gain by getting out of your car without asked to do so? You can have a conversation just fine with your ass in your driver’s seat.
Hell,most people that don’t trust law enforcement usually decide to stay IN their car…not get out.
Incidentally or not(sarcasm) people guilty of something usually get OUT of their cars when stopped…or are just mentally handicapped(or just stupid). [/quote]
The idea of liberty means you don’t have to answer that question.
edit:
“They who would trade liberty for security soon have none and deserve neither.”
They guy had done nothing wrong, he is free to f***ing get out of his car when he damn well pleases.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
dmaddox wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
Why would you want to get out of your car?
EXACTLY? What do you gain by getting out of your car without asked to do so? You can have a conversation just fine with your ass in your driver’s seat.
Hell,most people that don’t trust law enforcement usually decide to stay IN their car…not get out.
Incidentally or not(sarcasm) people guilty of something usually get OUT of their cars when stopped…or are just mentally handicapped(or just stupid).
The idea of liberty means you don’t have to answer that question. [/quote]
I used to think that the government was taking away our rights because people were just not paying attention. But after reading some of the attitudes in this thread it seems as if some people actually want to trade thier rights for increased security.
I just can’t get comfortable with the idea of PAYING the thugs to terrorise me. I would at least rather have them be independant and funded of thier own means.
V
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
dmaddox wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
Why would you want to get out of your car?
EXACTLY? What do you gain by getting out of your car without asked to do so? You can have a conversation just fine with your ass in your driver’s seat.
Hell,most people that don’t trust law enforcement usually decide to stay IN their car…not get out.
Incidentally or not(sarcasm) people guilty of something usually get OUT of their cars when stopped…or are just mentally handicapped(or just stupid).
The idea of liberty means you don’t have to answer that question.
edit:
“They who would trade liberty for security soon have none and deserve neither.”
They guy had done nothing wrong, he is free to f***ing get out of his car when he damn well pleases.[/quote]
This is what I’m talking about with the ego of knowing your rights and liberties handicapping common sense.
And at what opportunity was it apparent that this guy was just a honest,law-abiding citizen?? WHO prevented that opportunity for it to be apparent?? He played roulette with his own rights by preemptively getting out his car without asked(which would not have been justified if he was)…and by refusing to get back in his car and let the officer perform his duties(i.e. ask for registration/license,etc).
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
This is what I’m talking about with the ego of knowing your rights and liberties handicapping common sense.
And at what opportunity was it apparent that this guy was just a honest,law-abiding citizen?? WHO prevented that opportunity for it to be apparent?? He played roulette with his own rights by preemptively getting out his car without asked(which would not have been justified if he was)…and by refusing to get back in his car and let the officer perform his duties(i.e. ask for registration/license,etc). [/quote]
V
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
dmaddox wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
Why would you want to get out of your car?
EXACTLY? What do you gain by getting out of your car without asked to do so? You can have a conversation just fine with your ass in your driver’s seat.
Hell,most people that don’t trust law enforcement usually decide to stay IN their car…not get out.
Incidentally or not(sarcasm) people guilty of something usually get OUT of their cars when stopped…or are just mentally handicapped(or just stupid).
The idea of liberty means you don’t have to answer that question.
edit:
“They who would trade liberty for security soon have none and deserve neither.”
They guy had done nothing wrong, he is free to f***ing get out of his car when he damn well pleases.[/quote]
Then he’s free to take responsibility for his own actions afterward. The possibility of that cop doing anything wrong would have been next to nothing if not for the driver’s actions.
I don’t understand why some people are so caught up in their “liberties” and rights when they can’t even accept personal responsibility for their own actions.
Would it have been within his rights to get out of the car, holding a gun (2nd), shouting (1st) about how cops are such pains in the ass? Or, maybe he was within his rights to not have even pulled over for the police officer in the first place?
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
This is what I’m talking about with the ego of knowing your rights and liberties handicapping common sense.
[/quote]
In other words, know your rights, just donâ??t exercise them.
It is called a presumption of innocents, another right you apparently donâ??t care about.
[/quote]
WHO prevented that opportunity for it to be apparent??
[/quote]
No, it has to be apparent he is guilty or a crime. Which he was not. I think you are a rapist, prove to me you arenâ??t or I will treat you like one.
[/quote]
He played roulette with his own rights by preemptively getting out his car without asked(which would not have been justified if he was)…and by refusing to get back in his car and let the officer perform his duties(i.e. ask for registration/license,etc). [/quote]
Once again, you are saying you have rights as long as you donâ??t use them. They arenâ??t rights if you are prevented from using them. They become a privilege the officer allows.
You obviously have not had the same experiences with cops that I have.
Besides, I donâ??t take advice from rapists.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
The cop should have done one of two things, kept his gun drawn, and answered the question before issuing another command, or put his gun away and answered the question before issuing another command. The threat was over the minute the guy saw the gun and got his hand out of his pocket. After that the cop was just looking to punish him.
V[/quote]
Another dumb statement in this thread. The right to bear arms has nothing to do with the pointing of a firearm at someone.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:
The cop should have done one of two things, kept his gun drawn, and answered the question before issuing another command, or put his gun away and answered the question before issuing another command. The threat was over the minute the guy saw the gun and got his hand out of his pocket. After that the cop was just looking to punish him.
V
[/quote]
Touche!
V
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
dmaddox wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ok nevermind, just answer this. Do you think it shoul be against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when the police have not given you a command to do so?
V
Why would you want to get out of your car?
EXACTLY? What do you gain by getting out of your car without asked to do so? You can have a conversation just fine with your ass in your driver’s seat.
Hell,most people that don’t trust law enforcement usually decide to stay IN their car…not get out.
Incidentally or not(sarcasm) people guilty of something usually get OUT of their cars when stopped…or are just mentally handicapped(or just stupid).
The idea of liberty means you don’t have to answer that question.
edit:
“They who would trade liberty for security soon have none and deserve neither.”
They guy had done nothing wrong, he is free to f***ing get out of his car when he damn well pleases.
Then he’s free to take responsibility for his own actions afterward. The possibility of that cop doing anything wrong would have been next to nothing if not for the driver’s actions.
I don’t understand why some people are so caught up in their “liberties” and rights when they can’t even accept personal responsibility for their own actions. [/quote]
Okay, you are free to exercise the right of free speech. I’ll shoot you if you do though. You seem to have no idea what rights are. You should never have your rights violated for using your rights. By your logic, the Jews were never oppressed by the Nazis. They can exercise their rights, they just have to deal with the consequences.