I honestly think though that if the officer had told the gentleman why he pulled him over then said that he would like a pat down to ensure his safety none of this would have happened.
That guy’s an idiot. He got out of the car, approached the officers vehicle with hands in his pocket and just stood there trying to argue while not complying for what seemed like forever. How did he not get tasered earlier? He got pretty close too, it seemed like he was just a couple feet away from the cruiser.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Uh, yea, I also draw the line here, I mean the cops KNOW this guy is going to be a smartass and instead of beating him at his own game, telling him the infraction, diffusing the situation like they are supposed to, they chose to escelate it. Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.
I understand that police officers put thier life on the line every day to help keep our streets safe, but they do not get a pass when they assault an innocent, unarmed civilian. This was assault, thier badge does not give them that right. Why was it so hard to tell the guy, Hey I pulled you over because your plate is not mounted correctly, now please get back in your car so I can process the ticket that I was origionally going to only give you a warning for before you got out and started being a smartass. Then write the guy a ticket and leave it at that. I mean cops have authority, they can fuck with someone and still stay well within thier rights and not have to resort to such tacticts to still fuck the guy over.
V
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but you must not understand police officers put their lives on the line every time they put their badge on or you at least take this for granted. The fact of the matter is many many people hate the police, many times for no reason, and the police have to deal with this every day. The person in the car could have had a gun, knife, whatever in his pocket and used it to harm the officer. Put yourself in the officers shoes. You pull a guy over, obviously the dude you pulled over is not going to be happy about it, and he gets out of his car with hands in pockets. A red flag is immediately raised in my mind and I am going to do everything in my power to defend myself. I would taze him too.
I’m not saying the officer didn’t go to far after the initial hit, but I think he is absolutely justified in the initial hit.
Also how do you know the guy is being a smart ass and not out to harm the officer?
Also what make you think this officer was thinking, “Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.” Do you know him? [/quote]
Did you even watch the video? the guy had one hand in his pocket for the first 5 seconds he was out of the car, When he realized the cop had gotten out and drawn his gun, his hands stayed out of his pockets for the rest of the time. So the cop has his gun drawn on an unarmed guy and he is so in fear for his life and unable to communicate that he waits 5 minutes before tazering the guy? Just communicate with the guy, stop ordering him like he is a slave and act like a reasonable human being, it’s really not that hard. Oh and also, videos like this are WHY people don’t like cops and don’t trust them. It’s not like there has been one or two videos floating around youtube of people getting tazered unjustly, try thousands. And again, they signed up for the job, they are there to protect civillians, and until someone breaks a law or is caught commiting a crime, they are a civillian worthy of thier protection, not thier abuse.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Uh, yea, I also draw the line here, I mean the cops KNOW this guy is going to be a smartass and instead of beating him at his own game, telling him the infraction, diffusing the situation like they are supposed to, they chose to escelate it. Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.
I understand that police officers put thier life on the line every day to help keep our streets safe, but they do not get a pass when they assault an innocent, unarmed civilian. This was assault, thier badge does not give them that right. Why was it so hard to tell the guy, Hey I pulled you over because your plate is not mounted correctly, now please get back in your car so I can process the ticket that I was origionally going to only give you a warning for before you got out and started being a smartass. Then write the guy a ticket and leave it at that. I mean cops have authority, they can fuck with someone and still stay well within thier rights and not have to resort to such tacticts to still fuck the guy over.
V
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but you must not understand police officers put their lives on the line every time they put their badge on or you at least take this for granted. The fact of the matter is many many people hate the police, many times for no reason, and the police have to deal with this every day. The person in the car could have had a gun, knife, whatever in his pocket and used it to harm the officer. Put yourself in the officers shoes. You pull a guy over, obviously the dude you pulled over is not going to be happy about it, and he gets out of his car with hands in pockets. A red flag is immediately raised in my mind and I am going to do everything in my power to defend myself. I would taze him too.
I’m not saying the officer didn’t go to far after the initial hit, but I think he is absolutely justified in the initial hit.
Also how do you know the guy is being a smart ass and not out to harm the officer?
Also what make you think this officer was thinking, “Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.” Do you know him?
Did you even watch the video? the guy had one hand in his pocket for the first 5 seconds he was out of the car, When he realized the cop had gotten out and drawn his gun, his hands stayed out of his pockets for the rest of the time. So the cop has his gun drawn on an unarmed guy and he is so in fear for his life and unable to communicate that he waits 5 minutes before tazering the guy? Just communicate with the guy, stop ordering him like he is a slave and act like a reasonable human being, it’s really not that hard. Oh and also, videos like this are WHY people don’t like cops and don’t trust them. It’s not like there has been one or two videos floating around youtube of people getting tazered unjustly, try thousands. And again, they signed up for the job, they are there to protect civillians, and until someone breaks a law or is caught commiting a crime, they are a civillian worthy of thier protection, not thier abuse.
V[/quote]
I did watch the video and what I saw was a police officers “communicating” with a citizen resisting arrest to do what he says. We give police the authority to apprehend people that many be criminals. The guy could have had a gun or whatever in his pocket/waist band. You wnat the officer to communicate with the guy, but I saw 3+ minutes of the officer being patient giving this ass a chance to do what he is told. Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
Yes they volunteer to protect society, but isn’t that what they were doing? And why does it matter that they do volunteer I doubt any cop wants to be shot in the line of duty even though they volunteer to do so.
Of those 1000’s of videos I would guess in most of them the people/person was doing something wrong and just had to listen to the police and do as they were told and they would not have been tazed.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
[/quote]
Here is the crux of our dissagreement. I view the above statement to be a complete trampling of my rights as a human being. If a cop walks up to my front door and tells me to come out of the house right now, doesn’t say anything else, and just keeps ordering me to, I’m telling him to get the fuck off my lawn. You do not do whatever anyone tells you to, every situation requires human beings to act like humans and not robots or animals, lets use our brains and our skills to communicate with eachother. I mean if you want to look at the officers safety, he INCREASED his chance of getting shot. How does the cop know that the guy didn’t have a really bad fucking day and the next asshole cop or otherwise who fucks with the guy is the one the guy is going to shoot at. I mean at some point the cop should have just told the guy why he pulled him over, it’s not like the guy was requesting a million dollars.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Uh, yea, I also draw the line here, I mean the cops KNOW this guy is going to be a smartass and instead of beating him at his own game, telling him the infraction, diffusing the situation like they are supposed to, they chose to escelate it. Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.
I understand that police officers put thier life on the line every day to help keep our streets safe, but they do not get a pass when they assault an innocent, unarmed civilian. This was assault, thier badge does not give them that right. Why was it so hard to tell the guy, Hey I pulled you over because your plate is not mounted correctly, now please get back in your car so I can process the ticket that I was origionally going to only give you a warning for before you got out and started being a smartass. Then write the guy a ticket and leave it at that. I mean cops have authority, they can fuck with someone and still stay well within thier rights and not have to resort to such tacticts to still fuck the guy over.
V
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but you must not understand police officers put their lives on the line every time they put their badge on or you at least take this for granted. The fact of the matter is many many people hate the police, many times for no reason, and the police have to deal with this every day. The person in the car could have had a gun, knife, whatever in his pocket and used it to harm the officer. Put yourself in the officers shoes. You pull a guy over, obviously the dude you pulled over is not going to be happy about it, and he gets out of his car with hands in pockets. A red flag is immediately raised in my mind and I am going to do everything in my power to defend myself. I would taze him too.
I’m not saying the officer didn’t go to far after the initial hit, but I think he is absolutely justified in the initial hit.
Also how do you know the guy is being a smart ass and not out to harm the officer?
Also what make you think this officer was thinking, “Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.” Do you know him?
Did you even watch the video? the guy had one hand in his pocket for the first 5 seconds he was out of the car, When he realized the cop had gotten out and drawn his gun, his hands stayed out of his pockets for the rest of the time. So the cop has his gun drawn on an unarmed guy and he is so in fear for his life and unable to communicate that he waits 5 minutes before tazering the guy? Just communicate with the guy, stop ordering him like he is a slave and act like a reasonable human being, it’s really not that hard. Oh and also, videos like this are WHY people don’t like cops and don’t trust them. It’s not like there has been one or two videos floating around youtube of people getting tazered unjustly, try thousands. And again, they signed up for the job, they are there to protect civillians, and until someone breaks a law or is caught commiting a crime, they are a civillian worthy of thier protection, not thier abuse.
V[/quote]
I love how you continue to not address how the driver’s behavior dictated this entire situation. You’re putting way too much responsibility on the officer in this particular case. Yes,the officer could have done a few things better(communication wise). But like I asked you earlier…how would this have diffused the situation that the driver escalated.
You also keep reiterated law enforcement’s sworn duties…yet you make no mention or don’t understand what is within law enforcement’s justifiable rights and probable cause when PERFORMING their sworn duties.
-
It is true that a person must be told WHY they are being arrested, but that doesn’t have to take place on the spot. Sometimes, due to tactical considerations or other issues beyond our control, the arrest has to take place first. A person has to be informed sometime before being formally charged…that’s all the law requires.
-
It is true that during a Taser cycle (I’m talking about probe deployment, here) that a person does loes some, or all, neuro-muscular control. This is supposed to provide the officers with a “window of opportunity” to handcuff the suspect. Under ideal situations, and with correct training, that is how an arrest with a Taser is supposed to go. We all know, however, that plans fall apart, and people vapor lock from time to time.
-
Of course, every officer handles verbal confrontations differently, and not all do it well. Some people don’t respond well to it either. I have personally found a few easy ways to avoid arguments on the scene of a traffic stop, even if the violator disagrees with me. That comes with training and experience, though, and a willingness to not ALWAYS have the last word. I’ve had to learn to tone it down, just like many other officers.
-
That being said, that doesn’t mean I’m going to lose TACTICAL control of the situation, and I believe that’s what we are seeing here. We have an officer trying to maintain the tactical advantage, failing to recognize that verbal commands alone are not working, and failing to find a way around that. Hence, we have a situation that degenerates very quickly.
Just my two cents, though.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
[/quote]
This is my beef with these instances and the attitude of cops in general and, correct me if I’m wrong Vegita, but also what Vegita seems to find wrong with these situations. If the cop told you to take off your pants and finger your asshole while whinnying like a horse are you expect to do it simply because he’s a cop? You’re going to respond by saying well that’s ridiculous no cop would ever ask that but the fact is many cops DO make outlandish requests for seemingly no reason which leads to someone not listening.
EDIT: Posted before I saw Vegita’s response to the exact same quote.
Where is it against the law to get out of your car when being pulled over in a parking lot?
Where is it against the law to ask why you are being stopped or if your gonna be shot, or any question for that matter?
This man was not under arrest and at no time did the officer say you are under arrest. That is to me where the line was crossed by the officer.
Now if the officer said. You are under arrest turn around and put your hands on your head. Then its game over. You can say oh its implied by the car and uniform but telling him he is under arrest should be said as well so it is absolutely clear and there is no denying your under the control of the police and the law at that point.
When its not said I would assume I am able to do and act as I please. That is where his civil rights where trampled.
The officer clearly panicked and was scared and wanted control back. When he was challenged he went into a confrontation mode. The officer was not listening to the man cause he asked what was going on. This turned from officer protecting the public to officers issues with control, ego and fear. And then this is when the mistake was made and this mans rights were trampled on.
Also taser was not needed there were 3 officers to help out incase it got out of control. He was out of his car and not going any place real fast.
If someone said hey buddy we pulled you over cause your plates are looking funny. Things might have gone very very differently.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Uh, yea, I also draw the line here, I mean the cops KNOW this guy is going to be a smartass and instead of beating him at his own game, telling him the infraction, diffusing the situation like they are supposed to, they chose to escelate it. Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.
I understand that police officers put thier life on the line every day to help keep our streets safe, but they do not get a pass when they assault an innocent, unarmed civilian. This was assault, thier badge does not give them that right. Why was it so hard to tell the guy, Hey I pulled you over because your plate is not mounted correctly, now please get back in your car so I can process the ticket that I was origionally going to only give you a warning for before you got out and started being a smartass. Then write the guy a ticket and leave it at that. I mean cops have authority, they can fuck with someone and still stay well within thier rights and not have to resort to such tacticts to still fuck the guy over.
V
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but you must not understand police officers put their lives on the line every time they put their badge on or you at least take this for granted. The fact of the matter is many many people hate the police, many times for no reason, and the police have to deal with this every day. The person in the car could have had a gun, knife, whatever in his pocket and used it to harm the officer. Put yourself in the officers shoes. You pull a guy over, obviously the dude you pulled over is not going to be happy about it, and he gets out of his car with hands in pockets. A red flag is immediately raised in my mind and I am going to do everything in my power to defend myself. I would taze him too.
I’m not saying the officer didn’t go to far after the initial hit, but I think he is absolutely justified in the initial hit.
Also how do you know the guy is being a smart ass and not out to harm the officer?
Also what make you think this officer was thinking, “Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.” Do you know him?
Did you even watch the video? the guy had one hand in his pocket for the first 5 seconds he was out of the car, When he realized the cop had gotten out and drawn his gun, his hands stayed out of his pockets for the rest of the time. So the cop has his gun drawn on an unarmed guy and he is so in fear for his life and unable to communicate that he waits 5 minutes before tazering the guy? Just communicate with the guy, stop ordering him like he is a slave and act like a reasonable human being, it’s really not that hard. Oh and also, videos like this are WHY people don’t like cops and don’t trust them. It’s not like there has been one or two videos floating around youtube of people getting tazered unjustly, try thousands. And again, they signed up for the job, they are there to protect civillians, and until someone breaks a law or is caught commiting a crime, they are a civillian worthy of thier protection, not thier abuse.
V
I did watch the video and what I saw was a police officers “communicating” with a citizen resisting arrest to do what he says. We give police the authority to apprehend people that many be criminals. The guy could have had a gun or whatever in his pocket/waist band. You wnat the officer to communicate with the guy, but I saw 3+ minutes of the officer being patient giving this ass a chance to do what he is told. Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
Yes they volunteer to protect society, but isn’t that what they were doing? And why does it matter that they do volunteer I doubt any cop wants to be shot in the line of duty even though they volunteer to do so.
Of those 1000’s of videos I would guess in most of them the people/person was doing something wrong and just had to listen to the police and do as they were told and they would not have been tazed. [/quote]
It’s the cop job to inform the citizen of the infraction though … unless you like cops just busting your shit up when they have a bad day which is what this type of situation sets. We as a society bestow our trust into the police and give them a air of authority provided they do not abuse that authority, which, in this case, the cop did.
Veg said it earlier, the cop, in repeating his “demands” without providing cause or explanation, took away the respect given to him when he refused to communicate in a rational manner. You might be forgetting we are not under their rule, we should not have to cower in fear but instead feel comfortable and safe in their presence. The man pulled over was unaware of any infraction as none was relayed to him, only orders that he felt were unwarranted.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Uh, yea, I also draw the line here, I mean the cops KNOW this guy is going to be a smartass and instead of beating him at his own game, telling him the infraction, diffusing the situation like they are supposed to, they chose to escelate it. Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.
I understand that police officers put thier life on the line every day to help keep our streets safe, but they do not get a pass when they assault an innocent, unarmed civilian. This was assault, thier badge does not give them that right. Why was it so hard to tell the guy, Hey I pulled you over because your plate is not mounted correctly, now please get back in your car so I can process the ticket that I was origionally going to only give you a warning for before you got out and started being a smartass. Then write the guy a ticket and leave it at that. I mean cops have authority, they can fuck with someone and still stay well within thier rights and not have to resort to such tacticts to still fuck the guy over.
V
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but you must not understand police officers put their lives on the line every time they put their badge on or you at least take this for granted. The fact of the matter is many many people hate the police, many times for no reason, and the police have to deal with this every day. The person in the car could have had a gun, knife, whatever in his pocket and used it to harm the officer. Put yourself in the officers shoes. You pull a guy over, obviously the dude you pulled over is not going to be happy about it, and he gets out of his car with hands in pockets. A red flag is immediately raised in my mind and I am going to do everything in my power to defend myself. I would taze him too.
I’m not saying the officer didn’t go to far after the initial hit, but I think he is absolutely justified in the initial hit.
Also how do you know the guy is being a smart ass and not out to harm the officer?
Also what make you think this officer was thinking, “Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.” Do you know him?
Did you even watch the video? the guy had one hand in his pocket for the first 5 seconds he was out of the car, When he realized the cop had gotten out and drawn his gun, his hands stayed out of his pockets for the rest of the time. So the cop has his gun drawn on an unarmed guy and he is so in fear for his life and unable to communicate that he waits 5 minutes before tazering the guy? Just communicate with the guy, stop ordering him like he is a slave and act like a reasonable human being, it’s really not that hard. Oh and also, videos like this are WHY people don’t like cops and don’t trust them. It’s not like there has been one or two videos floating around youtube of people getting tazered unjustly, try thousands. And again, they signed up for the job, they are there to protect civillians, and until someone breaks a law or is caught commiting a crime, they are a civillian worthy of thier protection, not thier abuse.
V
I love how you continue to not address how the driver’s behavior dictated this entire situation. You’re putting way too much responsibility on the officer in this particular case. Yes,the officer could have done a few things better(communication wise). But like I asked you earlier…how would this have diffused the situation that the driver escalated.
You also keep reiterated law enforcement’s sworn duties…yet you make no mention or don’t understand what is within law enforcement’s justifiable rights and probable cause when PERFORMING their sworn duties.
[/quote]
It didn’t dictate it, it was partly responsible for the end result. There were opportunities on both sides to diffuse the situation or at least attempt to. I believe it is the cops duty to try to diffuse a situation, not escalate it, he made no attempt to diffuse it. Police have to understand that they are going to be dealing with on average the worst and most difficult portion of the human race. That doesn’t mean they get to tazer and beat everyone, it means they need to have top notch communication skills and tactical skills. Obviously this cop had tactical skills, I think all I am asking is maybe he could have tried a little harder on the communication front. Again, if you think about it, he could have, he chose not to, why chose not to, why not try something that requires no effort, but would potentially diffuse the situation. I feel like he didn’t want the situation diffused. Thats what I got out of it, either he is just a poorly trained cop with no verbal communication skills, or he let it escalate on purpose, knowing the guy wasn’t going to back dawn if he repeated himself 10-20, hell 1000 times, and eventually he could tazer the guy down. Thats what I saw.
V
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
Where is it against the law to get out of your car when being pulled over in a parking lot?
Where is it against the law to ask why you are being stopped or if your gonna be shot, or any question for that matter?
This man was not under arrest and at no time did the officer say you are under arrest. That is to me where the line was crossed by the officer.
Now if the officer said. You are under arrest turn around and put your hands on your head. Then its game over. You can say oh its implied by the car and uniform but telling him he is under arrest should be said as well so it is absolutely clear and there is no denying your under the control of the police and the law at that point.
When its not said I would assume I am able to do and act as I please. That is where his civil rights where trampled.
The officer clearly panicked and was scared and wanted control back. When he was challenged he went into a confrontation mode. The officer was not listening to the man cause he asked what was going on. This turned from officer protecting the public to officers issues with control, ego and fear. And then this is when the mistake was made and this mans rights were trampled on.
Also taser was not needed there were 3 officers to help out incase it got out of control. He was out of his car and not going any place real fast.
If someone said hey buddy we pulled you over cause your plates are looking funny. Things might have gone very very differently. [/quote]
I could not have said anything better than this. (and I didn’t) 
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
Here is the crux of our dissagreement. I view the above statement to be a complete trampling of my rights as a human being. If a cop walks up to my front door and tells me to come out of the house right now, doesn’t say anything else, and just keeps ordering me to, I’m telling him to get the fuck off my lawn. You do not do whatever anyone tells you to, every situation requires human beings to act like humans and not robots or animals, lets use our brains and our skills to communicate with eachother. I mean if you want to look at the officers safety, he INCREASED his chance of getting shot. How does the cop know that the guy didn’t have a really bad fucking day and the next asshole cop or otherwise who fucks with the guy is the one the guy is going to shoot at. I mean at some point the cop should have just told the guy why he pulled him over, it’s not like the guy was requesting a million dollars.
V[/quote]
These are two different situations. If a cop came to my house and didn’t have a warrant I would tell him to leave as well. When a cop pulls me over; however, I know, like everyone else, to sit in my car and get my license and registration out. You and I gave up some of our rights, or rather had our rights given up by previous generations, in order to create a society with rules and consequences. This guy should have followed the rules and he would not have paid the consequences.
[quote]JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
This is my beef with these instances and the attitude of cops in general and, correct me if I’m wrong Vegita, but also what Vegita seems to find wrong with these situations. If the cop told you to take off your pants and finger your asshole while whinnying like a horse are you expect to do it simply because he’s a cop? You’re going to respond by saying well that’s ridiculous no cop would ever ask that but the fact is many cops DO make outlandish requests for seemingly no reason which leads to someone not listening.
EDIT: Posted before I saw Vegita’s response to the exact same quote.[/quote]
Sorry, a citizen should do what a police officers says withing reason, is that better.
Do you have an example of an outlandish request a cop has made for no reason?
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Uh, yea, I also draw the line here, I mean the cops KNOW this guy is going to be a smartass and instead of beating him at his own game, telling him the infraction, diffusing the situation like they are supposed to, they chose to escelate it. Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.
I understand that police officers put thier life on the line every day to help keep our streets safe, but they do not get a pass when they assault an innocent, unarmed civilian. This was assault, thier badge does not give them that right. Why was it so hard to tell the guy, Hey I pulled you over because your plate is not mounted correctly, now please get back in your car so I can process the ticket that I was origionally going to only give you a warning for before you got out and started being a smartass. Then write the guy a ticket and leave it at that. I mean cops have authority, they can fuck with someone and still stay well within thier rights and not have to resort to such tacticts to still fuck the guy over.
V
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but you must not understand police officers put their lives on the line every time they put their badge on or you at least take this for granted. The fact of the matter is many many people hate the police, many times for no reason, and the police have to deal with this every day. The person in the car could have had a gun, knife, whatever in his pocket and used it to harm the officer. Put yourself in the officers shoes. You pull a guy over, obviously the dude you pulled over is not going to be happy about it, and he gets out of his car with hands in pockets. A red flag is immediately raised in my mind and I am going to do everything in my power to defend myself. I would taze him too.
I’m not saying the officer didn’t go to far after the initial hit, but I think he is absolutely justified in the initial hit.
Also how do you know the guy is being a smart ass and not out to harm the officer?
Also what make you think this officer was thinking, “Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.” Do you know him?
Did you even watch the video? the guy had one hand in his pocket for the first 5 seconds he was out of the car, When he realized the cop had gotten out and drawn his gun, his hands stayed out of his pockets for the rest of the time. So the cop has his gun drawn on an unarmed guy and he is so in fear for his life and unable to communicate that he waits 5 minutes before tazering the guy? Just communicate with the guy, stop ordering him like he is a slave and act like a reasonable human being, it’s really not that hard. Oh and also, videos like this are WHY people don’t like cops and don’t trust them. It’s not like there has been one or two videos floating around youtube of people getting tazered unjustly, try thousands. And again, they signed up for the job, they are there to protect civillians, and until someone breaks a law or is caught commiting a crime, they are a civillian worthy of thier protection, not thier abuse.
V
I love how you continue to not address how the driver’s behavior dictated this entire situation. You’re putting way too much responsibility on the officer in this particular case. Yes,the officer could have done a few things better(communication wise). But like I asked you earlier…how would this have diffused the situation that the driver escalated.
You also keep reiterated law enforcement’s sworn duties…yet you make no mention or don’t understand what is within law enforcement’s justifiable rights and probable cause when PERFORMING their sworn duties.
It didn’t dictate it, it was partly responsible for the end result. There were opportunities on both sides to diffuse the situation or at least attempt to. I believe it is the cops duty to try to diffuse a situation, not escalate it, he made no attempt to diffuse it. Police have to understand that they are going to be dealing with on average the worst and most difficult portion of the human race. That doesn’t mean they get to tazer and beat everyone, it means they need to have top notch communication skills and tactical skills. Obviously this cop had tactical skills, I think all I am asking is maybe he could have tried a little harder on the communication front. Again, if you think about it, he could have, he chose not to, why chose not to, why not try something that requires no effort, but would potentially diffuse the situation. I feel like he didn’t want the situation diffused. Thats what I got out of it, either he is just a poorly trained cop with no verbal communication skills, or he let it escalate on purpose, knowing the guy wasn’t going to back dawn if he repeated himself 10-20, hell 1000 times, and eventually he could tazer the guy down. Thats what I saw.
V[/quote]
Of course it dictated it! If the guy had not gone out of his way to get out his car…he could have just had a warning and been on his merry way to do whatever.
So,I again(third time)ask you: How would this situation been different if the officer initially told him why he was pulled over AFTER the driver exhibited the behavior he did??
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
Here is the crux of our dissagreement. I view the above statement to be a complete trampling of my rights as a human being. If a cop walks up to my front door and tells me to come out of the house right now, doesn’t say anything else, and just keeps ordering me to, I’m telling him to get the fuck off my lawn. You do not do whatever anyone tells you to, every situation requires human beings to act like humans and not robots or animals, lets use our brains and our skills to communicate with eachother. I mean if you want to look at the officers safety, he INCREASED his chance of getting shot. How does the cop know that the guy didn’t have a really bad fucking day and the next asshole cop or otherwise who fucks with the guy is the one the guy is going to shoot at. I mean at some point the cop should have just told the guy why he pulled him over, it’s not like the guy was requesting a million dollars.
V
These are two different situations. If a cop came to my house and didn’t have a warrant I would tell him to leave as well. When a cop pulls me over; however, I know, like everyone else, to sit in my car and get my license and registration out. You and I gave up some of our rights, or rather had our rights given up by previous generations, in order to create a society with rules and consequences. This guy should have followed the rules and he would not have paid the consequences.
[/quote]
Wrong again, My father, which is one generation before me, has told NUMEROUS stories of him and his buddies getting pulled over barely able to walk they were so drunk, and having the cop either follow them home, or give them a ride home. No tickets, no beatings, no harrasment. This behavior by police is NEW and it is getting worse. They are trying to take away our rights and people like you will thet them people like myself and some of the others who are speaking out against them will fight for our rights. Like Polo said, until I am told I am under arrest, I’ll do whatever the fuck I please. Thats not saying I’m going to act like this guy, but I am well equipped to stand up for my own rights.
V
Not so much with reference to this incident – perhaps a better example is the “don’t Taser me, bro!” incident at UF with the Barney Fifes there (though the UF police department is accredited and boasts how they are real police, really I don’t rate them as such myself) – I wonder how it is that those public figures who are so disturbed by terrorists being made to listen to rock music or go without sleep and make such a stink about it, never seem to show similar concern for American citizens being tasered without necessity, or excessively.
Can anyone who shares the horror of terrorists being made to listen to rock music explain to me why these public figures logically and reasonably should be showing less concern for American citizens who are needlessly or excessively tasered by police?
Or suppose that it were learned that terrorist detainees at Guantanamo were being tasered for things such as disrespecting the authority of guards by not turning around when ordered, and were being hit with extra shots after already down as punishment via electrical shock (there is no other purpose to the added shots.)
Would there be calls for a commander to be fired? Or even for criminal prosecutions? Would there be huge outcry? I think so!
Why are terrorists more special than American citizens? It seems an interesting question (for which I have my own opinion based on psychology, but it is strictly personal opinion of personal interest to me only and need not be discussed.)
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Uh, yea, I also draw the line here, I mean the cops KNOW this guy is going to be a smartass and instead of beating him at his own game, telling him the infraction, diffusing the situation like they are supposed to, they chose to escelate it. Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.
I understand that police officers put thier life on the line every day to help keep our streets safe, but they do not get a pass when they assault an innocent, unarmed civilian. This was assault, thier badge does not give them that right. Why was it so hard to tell the guy, Hey I pulled you over because your plate is not mounted correctly, now please get back in your car so I can process the ticket that I was origionally going to only give you a warning for before you got out and started being a smartass. Then write the guy a ticket and leave it at that. I mean cops have authority, they can fuck with someone and still stay well within thier rights and not have to resort to such tacticts to still fuck the guy over.
V
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but you must not understand police officers put their lives on the line every time they put their badge on or you at least take this for granted. The fact of the matter is many many people hate the police, many times for no reason, and the police have to deal with this every day. The person in the car could have had a gun, knife, whatever in his pocket and used it to harm the officer. Put yourself in the officers shoes. You pull a guy over, obviously the dude you pulled over is not going to be happy about it, and he gets out of his car with hands in pockets. A red flag is immediately raised in my mind and I am going to do everything in my power to defend myself. I would taze him too.
I’m not saying the officer didn’t go to far after the initial hit, but I think he is absolutely justified in the initial hit.
Also how do you know the guy is being a smart ass and not out to harm the officer?
Also what make you think this officer was thinking, “Not following my orders boy, don’t you know who I am boy? BZzzzzzzzzz.” Do you know him?
Did you even watch the video? the guy had one hand in his pocket for the first 5 seconds he was out of the car, When he realized the cop had gotten out and drawn his gun, his hands stayed out of his pockets for the rest of the time. So the cop has his gun drawn on an unarmed guy and he is so in fear for his life and unable to communicate that he waits 5 minutes before tazering the guy? Just communicate with the guy, stop ordering him like he is a slave and act like a reasonable human being, it’s really not that hard. Oh and also, videos like this are WHY people don’t like cops and don’t trust them. It’s not like there has been one or two videos floating around youtube of people getting tazered unjustly, try thousands. And again, they signed up for the job, they are there to protect civillians, and until someone breaks a law or is caught commiting a crime, they are a civillian worthy of thier protection, not thier abuse.
V
I love how you continue to not address how the driver’s behavior dictated this entire situation. You’re putting way too much responsibility on the officer in this particular case. Yes,the officer could have done a few things better(communication wise). But like I asked you earlier…how would this have diffused the situation that the driver escalated.
You also keep reiterated law enforcement’s sworn duties…yet you make no mention or don’t understand what is within law enforcement’s justifiable rights and probable cause when PERFORMING their sworn duties.
It didn’t dictate it, it was partly responsible for the end result. There were opportunities on both sides to diffuse the situation or at least attempt to. I believe it is the cops duty to try to diffuse a situation, not escalate it, he made no attempt to diffuse it. Police have to understand that they are going to be dealing with on average the worst and most difficult portion of the human race. That doesn’t mean they get to tazer and beat everyone, it means they need to have top notch communication skills and tactical skills. Obviously this cop had tactical skills, I think all I am asking is maybe he could have tried a little harder on the communication front. Again, if you think about it, he could have, he chose not to, why chose not to, why not try something that requires no effort, but would potentially diffuse the situation. I feel like he didn’t want the situation diffused. Thats what I got out of it, either he is just a poorly trained cop with no verbal communication skills, or he let it escalate on purpose, knowing the guy wasn’t going to back dawn if he repeated himself 10-20, hell 1000 times, and eventually he could tazer the guy down. Thats what I saw.
V
Of course it dictated it! If the guy had not gone out of his way to get out his car…he could have just had a warning and been on his merry way to do whatever.
So,I again(third time)ask you: How would this situation been different if the officer initially told him why he was pulled over AFTER the driver exhibited the behavior he did?? [/quote]
I can’t tell the future or have the ability to KNOW what would have happened, but are you denying there is a chance it would have diffused the situation? Are you claiming to KNOW what would have happened had the officer told him why he pulled him over? So it boils down then to what I said before, the officer chose not to respond to the requests of the man he was attempting to communicate with. This would have required no additional effort on the cops part, nor would it have comprimised his tactical position. He was already talking he just had to use a few different words. It is pretty logical that that MAY have helped the situation, so the cop choosing not to do so seems pretty sinister to me, or else just totally idiotic. Take your pick.
V
The cop will tell you the infraction when he approaches the vehicle, but when you get out before he tells you, walk towards him with your hands in his pockets, YOU are the aggressor. He has not yet determined whether or not you are a threat, but when you do dumb shit like getting out of the car and not listening to his instructions, you are fucking yourself. This stupid dumbshit made the cop become defensive because HE acted in such a way. This idiot now turned a small situation ( a simple traffic citation which can be contested in court), into a resisting arrest, or maybe worse.
Honestly people, for those of you who don’t know, there is a simple rule. If you give the cop a hard time, he will give you a harder time. Do you really think you are going to argue your way out of some simple ticket by approaching and arguing with a cop while he yells at you for 5 minutes? Do so many people share a fucking brain that doesn’t work?
If you want to argue a ticket, do it in court, where you actually have a chance of both winning your argument, and not getting your ass kicked to kingdom come. They tuned that guy up so bad, he could run his home electrics for a month, and rightfully so.
Fight the battle you know you can win, which is in court. Don’t argue with a cop, you automatically lose. Argue with the judge if anything.
This idiot will be laughed out of court when he tries to sue.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
JLu wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Last time I checked when a cop tells you to do something you do it.
This is my beef with these instances and the attitude of cops in general and, correct me if I’m wrong Vegita, but also what Vegita seems to find wrong with these situations. If the cop told you to take off your pants and finger your asshole while whinnying like a horse are you expect to do it simply because he’s a cop? You’re going to respond by saying well that’s ridiculous no cop would ever ask that but the fact is many cops DO make outlandish requests for seemingly no reason which leads to someone not listening.
EDIT: Posted before I saw Vegita’s response to the exact same quote.
Sorry, a citizen should do what a police officers says withing reason, is that better.
Do you have an example of an outlandish request a cop has made for no reason? [/quote]
How about “Get out of the car so we can search it for no other reason than we’re bored and feel like exerting our authority over you”?