Federal Lawsuit For Being Tasered

Off Topic
181

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Good news! It seems as if some people actually care if our police force conducts itself like they are supposed to. Don’t worry it looks like you “follow orders” types will have the benefit of other people doing the uncomfortable work for you. Continue to sit there and obey your orders, after all it’s easier. Those of us who continue to excercise our rights will keep you free of tyranny. Though you do make it much harder, thats ok, we are folk of strong constitution and charachter, we can handle the load.

V

Yep…because ALL orders from law enforcement are unreasonable and violate your rights(shut up,LIFTY). Those that “exercise” their rights are some of the very people who do shit that result in laws/bills that do violate our rights. Knowing your rights and exercising them isn’t enough if you don’t know when and how to do so. [/quote]

Care to point out where I said ALL orders are unreasonable and violate my rights?

V

182

And believe it or not…I see no problem with the intent of that video and observing police officers with video. BUT in doing so,if you keep that officer from doing his job or present a safety issue on the scene…you’re in the wrong. Stop acting like this all a simple black and white issue.

I wonder if people that educate themselves in their rights put the same effort in educating themselves on the duties and RIGHTS of police officers. Or do they just put more focus on their rights…??

183

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

Maybe you do…since you know how I shouldn’t think. You haven’t denied any “generalizations” I’ve made about YOU specifically in regards to your view of law enforcement. [/quote]

True, I havenâ??t denied it, just like how you never denied raping people. (back when I was making a point about presumption of innocence)

You didnâ??t deny it, itâ??s an admission. Rapist.

However, for your edification I have a close friend that is a cop. I also have one thatâ??s an MP.

I just donâ??t get how the cop has to go into every situation assuming Iâ??m a criminal, and I have to go into the same situation assuming the cop is honorable.

184

Double Duce,

How is there no video when there is a dash cam rolling the whole time? If he denies getting his CO, that too is on tape. You need to learn to make the tape your magic wand. And if that video were to “vanish”, don’t you think that further incriminates the cop? Videos don’t magically vanish. My lawyer would have a field day with that.

Shit if you saw the legal tooling I put on the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) for “losing” my medical records while trying to file a TORT claim, the judge damn near slapped the opposition with contempt. Yes, the judge was about to hold the BOP in contempt, and futher helped me with my case. What happened, is that they filtered out incriminating documents, of which I had carbon copies, that I showed the judge. It is not about what you know, it is about what you can prove. Haven’t you ever heard that possession is 9/10 of the law?

If you comply with the cop’s instructions and you still get beat or tazered, I would call that excessive force. But by running your mouth, you are further antagonizing the cop (which is not illegal), but in the grand scheme of a court of law, it doesn’t help you any.

If he wants to drag me to the side of the car and beat me, go ahead. By behaving prior to the beating, you show even further why the beating was unnecessary. But if you are cursing left and right, you have given the cop, and more importantly the judge or jury reasons to think the cop was in the right.

The cop started the aggressive yelling when the guy got out of his car quickly and without instruction to do so. Everyone knows that when a cop pulls you over, that you wait for him to approach you. Should you deviate from that, it’s your ass. If the guy complied, he would at least know what he is accused of, and can then argue if he wants. Listen, people can handle situation how they want, but don’t cry when your actions caused you to get hemmed up on some bullshit.

I have been through the legal system, and unlike many of you, you really have no clue how it works. This becomes a battle of the mind, your sword is your brain. You win by out-thinking the cop. I have stood in Federal Court, and had a prosecutor admit to wrong doing on his behalf, and if you think that is easy as a 28 yr old, think again.

Should a cop beat you or taze you, of course that is unimaginable, but you need to 1) survive, and 2) make it work to your benefit. You need to see Step 5, not Step 2. Capisci?

185

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Double Duce,

How is there no video when there is a dash cam rolling the whole time? If he denies getting his CO, that too is on tape. You need to learn to make the tape your magic wand. And if that video were to “vanish”, don’t you think that further incriminates the cop? Videos don’t magically vanish. My lawyer would have a field day with that.

Shit if you saw the legal tooling I put on the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) for “losing” my medical records while trying to file a TORT claim, the judge damn near slapped the opposition with contempt. Yes, the judge was about to hold the BOP in contempt, and futher helped me with my case. What happened, is that they filtered out incriminating documents, of which I had carbon copies, that I showed the judge. It is not about what you know, it is about what you can prove. Haven’t you ever heard that possession is 9/10 of the law?

If you comply with the cop’s instructions and you still get beat or tazered, I would call that excessive force. But by running your mouth, you are further antagonizing the cop (which is not illegal), but in the grand scheme of a court of law, it doesn’t help you any.

If he wants to drag me to the side of the car and beat me, go ahead. By behaving prior to the beating, you show even further why the beating was unnecessary. But if you are cursing left and right, you have given the cop, and more importantly the judge or jury reasons to think the cop was in the right.

The cop started the aggressive yelling when the guy got out of his car quickly and without instruction to do so. Everyone knows that when a cop pulls you over, that you wait for him to approach you. Should you deviate from that, it’s your ass. If the guy complied, he would at least know what he is accused of, and can then argue if he wants. Listen, people can handle situation how they want, but don’t cry when your actions caused you to get hemmed up on some bullshit.

I have been through the legal system, and unlike many of you, you really have no clue how it works. This becomes a battle of the mind, your sword is your brain. You win by out-thinking the cop. I have stood in Federal Court, and had a prosecutor admit to wrong doing on his behalf, and if you think that is easy as a 28 yr old, think again.

Should a cop beat you or taze you, of course that is unimaginable, but you need to 1) survive, and 2) make it work to your benefit. You need to see Step 5, not Step 2. Capisci?

[/quote]

Maximus, I’m not going to disagree with anything you just put out there. I think you do know what you are talking about and anyone looking out for themselves should follow your advice. See I am not looking out for myself per se. I am looking out for my fellow americans, and by obeying a system that is corrupt and manipulating my own way through it while people of lesser intelligence or even just unlukier get abused through it or worse is a sure fire way to ensure that nothing changes and the system stays oppressive.

There are a couple ways you can interact with this syatem. #1 be stuipid and resist it. Not a good idea and the video in the OP is a prime example of it. #2 be stupid and go with it. This is how most americans interact with it because they are well, stupid and timid and afraid. #3 is to be smart and go with it, which is how you choose to interact with it, which is fine on a personal level. #4 is to be smart and resist it. The people with the cameras watching cops are a good example of this. 3 of these behaviors will not change the system or even help to reinforce the bad aspects of it, while 1 of these types of behaviors will correct the system so that the stupid amongst us can still have thier rights not be violated.

General statement
It seems as if some of you who are of the opinion that the cop behaved in an appropriate manner think that; because some of us do not believe so, we somehow think the actions of the motorist were good or right or something we should all strive to do. This is clearly not the case as I have said as have others many times. The motorist was stupid, but the cop was wrong. The motorist being stupid does not make the cops actions somehow right.

V

186

[quote]Vegita wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Double Duce,

How is there no video when there is a dash cam rolling the whole time? If he denies getting his CO, that too is on tape. You need to learn to make the tape your magic wand. And if that video were to “vanish”, don’t you think that further incriminates the cop? Videos don’t magically vanish. My lawyer would have a field day with that.

Shit if you saw the legal tooling I put on the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) for “losing” my medical records while trying to file a TORT claim, the judge damn near slapped the opposition with contempt. Yes, the judge was about to hold the BOP in contempt, and futher helped me with my case. What happened, is that they filtered out incriminating documents, of which I had carbon copies, that I showed the judge. It is not about what you know, it is about what you can prove. Haven’t you ever heard that possession is 9/10 of the law?

If you comply with the cop’s instructions and you still get beat or tazered, I would call that excessive force. But by running your mouth, you are further antagonizing the cop (which is not illegal), but in the grand scheme of a court of law, it doesn’t help you any.

If he wants to drag me to the side of the car and beat me, go ahead. By behaving prior to the beating, you show even further why the beating was unnecessary. But if you are cursing left and right, you have given the cop, and more importantly the judge or jury reasons to think the cop was in the right.

The cop started the aggressive yelling when the guy got out of his car quickly and without instruction to do so. Everyone knows that when a cop pulls you over, that you wait for him to approach you. Should you deviate from that, it’s your ass. If the guy complied, he would at least know what he is accused of, and can then argue if he wants. Listen, people can handle situation how they want, but don’t cry when your actions caused you to get hemmed up on some bullshit.

I have been through the legal system, and unlike many of you, you really have no clue how it works. This becomes a battle of the mind, your sword is your brain. You win by out-thinking the cop. I have stood in Federal Court, and had a prosecutor admit to wrong doing on his behalf, and if you think that is easy as a 28 yr old, think again.

Should a cop beat you or taze you, of course that is unimaginable, but you need to 1) survive, and 2) make it work to your benefit. You need to see Step 5, not Step 2. Capisci?

Maximus, I’m not going to disagree with anything you just put out there. I think you do know what you are talking about and anyone looking out for themselves should follow your advice. See I am not looking out for myself per se. I am looking out for my fellow americans, and by obeying a system that is corrupt and manipulating my own way through it while people of lesser intelligence or even just unlukier get abused through it or worse is a sure fire way to ensure that nothing changes and the system stays oppressive.

There are a couple ways you can interact with this syatem. #1 be stuipid and resist it. Not a good idea and the video in the OP is a prime example of it. #2 be stupid and go with it. This is how most americans interact with it because they are well, stupid and timid and afraid. #3 is to be smart and go with it, which is how you choose to interact with it, which is fine on a personal level. #4 is to be smart and resist it. The people with the cameras watching cops are a good example of this. 3 of these behaviors will not change the system or even help to reinforce the bad aspects of it, while 1 of these types of behaviors will correct the system so that the stupid amongst us can still have thier rights not be violated.

General statement
It seems as if some of you who are of the opinion that the cop behaved in an appropriate manner think that; because some of us do not believe so, we somehow think the actions of the motorist were good or right or something we should all strive to do. This is clearly not the case as I have said as have others many times. The motorist was stupid, but the cop was wrong. The motorist being stupid does not make the cops actions somehow right.

V[/quote]

Again, the first hit was justified and a court would not find otherwise. If a police officer’s requests are reasonable, and you don’t obey, then you are free to get tasered. The rest of the hits are questionable and will get to a jury, because it’s not clear if he was resisting after he was down on the ground. That is why we have a court system and the 4th amendment to allow all of these lawsuits. There has been a million of these lawsuits, and the system is there to protect people from state officials abusing their authority. Obviously, if a police officer is acting unreasonably and is asking you to fuck your own ass with his police baton…you have a right to reasonably resist. Key word is reasonable in all of this. Both sides need to act reasonably.

Personally, like many others here, I believe if you’re being an idiot, you have it coming to you. However, justice is blind.

187

[quote]Vegita wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Double Duce,

How is there no video when there is a dash cam rolling the whole time? If he denies getting his CO, that too is on tape. You need to learn to make the tape your magic wand. And if that video were to “vanish”, don’t you think that further incriminates the cop? Videos don’t magically vanish. My lawyer would have a field day with that.

Shit if you saw the legal tooling I put on the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) for “losing” my medical records while trying to file a TORT claim, the judge damn near slapped the opposition with contempt. Yes, the judge was about to hold the BOP in contempt, and futher helped me with my case. What happened, is that they filtered out incriminating documents, of which I had carbon copies, that I showed the judge. It is not about what you know, it is about what you can prove. Haven’t you ever heard that possession is 9/10 of the law?

If you comply with the cop’s instructions and you still get beat or tazered, I would call that excessive force. But by running your mouth, you are further antagonizing the cop (which is not illegal), but in the grand scheme of a court of law, it doesn’t help you any.

If he wants to drag me to the side of the car and beat me, go ahead. By behaving prior to the beating, you show even further why the beating was unnecessary. But if you are cursing left and right, you have given the cop, and more importantly the judge or jury reasons to think the cop was in the right.

The cop started the aggressive yelling when the guy got out of his car quickly and without instruction to do so. Everyone knows that when a cop pulls you over, that you wait for him to approach you. Should you deviate from that, it’s your ass. If the guy complied, he would at least know what he is accused of, and can then argue if he wants. Listen, people can handle situation how they want, but don’t cry when your actions caused you to get hemmed up on some bullshit.

I have been through the legal system, and unlike many of you, you really have no clue how it works. This becomes a battle of the mind, your sword is your brain. You win by out-thinking the cop. I have stood in Federal Court, and had a prosecutor admit to wrong doing on his behalf, and if you think that is easy as a 28 yr old, think again.

Should a cop beat you or taze you, of course that is unimaginable, but you need to 1) survive, and 2) make it work to your benefit. You need to see Step 5, not Step 2. Capisci?

Maximus, I’m not going to disagree with anything you just put out there. I think you do know what you are talking about and anyone looking out for themselves should follow your advice. See I am not looking out for myself per se. I am looking out for my fellow americans, and by obeying a system that is corrupt and manipulating my own way through it while people of lesser intelligence or even just unlukier get abused through it or worse is a sure fire way to ensure that nothing changes and the system stays oppressive.

There are a couple ways you can interact with this syatem. #1 be stuipid and resist it. Not a good idea and the video in the OP is a prime example of it. #2 be stupid and go with it. This is how most americans interact with it because they are well, stupid and timid and afraid. #3 is to be smart and go with it, which is how you choose to interact with it, which is fine on a personal level. #4 is to be smart and resist it. The people with the cameras watching cops are a good example of this. 3 of these behaviors will not change the system or even help to reinforce the bad aspects of it, while 1 of these types of behaviors will correct the system so that the stupid amongst us can still have thier rights not be violated.

General statement
It seems as if some of you who are of the opinion that the cop behaved in an appropriate manner think that; because some of us do not believe so, we somehow think the actions of the motorist were good or right or something we should all strive to do. This is clearly not the case as I have said as have others many times. The motorist was stupid, but the cop was wrong. The motorist being stupid does not make the cops actions somehow right.

V[/quote]

x10

I’ve said multiple times in this thread the guy in the original video is a douche. It is however, his right to be a douche.

188

[quote]theOUTLAW wrote:

Again, the first hit was justified and a court would not find otherwise. If a police officer’s requests are reasonable, and you don’t obey, then you are free to get tasered. The rest of the hits are questionable and will get to a jury, because it’s not clear if he was resisting after he was down on the ground. That is why we have a court system and the 4th amendment to allow all of these lawsuits. There has been a million of these lawsuits, and the system is there to protect people from state officials abusing their authority. Obviously, if a police officer is acting unreasonably and is asking you to fuck your own ass with his police baton…you have a right to reasonably resist. Key word is reasonable in all of this. Both sides need to act reasonably.

Personally, like many others here, I believe if you’re being an idiot, you have it coming to you. However, justice is blind.
[/quote]

I don’t feel that any command to a non-threatening, law abiding citizen is reasonable. But once again, I’m curious, how far would you go? If I kicked down your door with a shotgun and shouted “police”, would you attempt to defend yourself? Would you get off a public sidewalk if told to, when others are walking down the street? would you go as far as putting your thumb up your butt? Who decides what is reasonable?

189

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Double Duce,

How is there no video when there is a dash cam rolling the whole time? If he denies getting his CO, that too is on tape. You need to learn to make the tape your magic wand. And if that video were to “vanish”, don’t you think that further incriminates the cop? Videos don’t magically vanish. My lawyer would have a field day with that.

Shit if you saw the legal tooling I put on the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) for “losing” my medical records while trying to file a TORT claim, the judge damn near slapped the opposition with contempt. Yes, the judge was about to hold the BOP in contempt, and futher helped me with my case. What happened, is that they filtered out incriminating documents, of which I had carbon copies, that I showed the judge. It is not about what you know, it is about what you can prove. Haven’t you ever heard that possession is 9/10 of the law?

If you comply with the cop’s instructions and you still get beat or tazered, I would call that excessive force. But by running your mouth, you are further antagonizing the cop (which is not illegal), but in the grand scheme of a court of law, it doesn’t help you any.

If he wants to drag me to the side of the car and beat me, go ahead. By behaving prior to the beating, you show even further why the beating was unnecessary. But if you are cursing left and right, you have given the cop, and more importantly the judge or jury reasons to think the cop was in the right.

The cop started the aggressive yelling when the guy got out of his car quickly and without instruction to do so. Everyone knows that when a cop pulls you over, that you wait for him to approach you. Should you deviate from that, it’s your ass. If the guy complied, he would at least know what he is accused of, and can then argue if he wants. Listen, people can handle situation how they want, but don’t cry when your actions caused you to get hemmed up on some bullshit.

I have been through the legal system, and unlike many of you, you really have no clue how it works. This becomes a battle of the mind, your sword is your brain. You win by out-thinking the cop. I have stood in Federal Court, and had a prosecutor admit to wrong doing on his behalf, and if you think that is easy as a 28 yr old, think again.

Should a cop beat you or taze you, of course that is unimaginable, but you need to 1) survive, and 2) make it work to your benefit. You need to see Step 5, not Step 2. Capisci?

[/quote]

None of my run ins have ended up on video. Even if you include the time my brother got a cop to quit hitting him because he made claimed there was a camera rolling (they got in their patrol car and left).

Who was your lawyer, maybe I should look into some law suits, since there is obviously video somewhere.

190

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Any of yall ever waited for an officer to approach, then have him reach through the window and drag you out of the car by your shirt before anyone said a word? Because apparently being a teenager and driving a lowered civic is probable cause.

Why exactly do I have to sit in a car and wait for an armed individual to aggressively approach me?

Why can I not take the same steps to protect my safety that the cops get to?

Cops are no better than any individual. Do you think carrying a badge makes a person less likely to commit a crime, or more likely?[/quote]

You have to sit in your car and wait for an armed officers to approach you because they are above most individuals in the sense that we the people have given them authority to enforce our laws.

If you were forcibly pulled out of your car for no reason like has been said you would go to court and seek retribution. That is how you solve a dispute between a civilian and a police officer not playing who has bigger balls.

191

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:

To Duce: I believe you asked earlier why can’t the guy get out of his car or what law says he can’t get out of his car. To that I say what law says a police officer has to tell you why you are being pulled over. All he has to say in a traffic stop is license and registration, then right the ticket. No explanation is required. if things are worse you get read you Miranda rights, cuffed, and taken to jail were the shit is then worked out.

The cop took an oath to the public and as such it is his duty to be reasonable. the civilian just by his existence has no such duty. By shear logic of defusing the situation and an fulfilling his oath of SERVICE he should answer. Not to mention, in the US, everyone has a right to know what crime they are being charged with.

He also never asked for license and registration. Nor am I even sure a crooked plate is a ticket able offense.[/quote]

I would argue spending 3+ minutes telling this guy to turn around is being very reasonable considering the officer didn’t have to warn this guy that many time to do so.

Once again he does not have the duty to answer and I believe you do not have to be informed of why you are being arrested at the scene only your rights read.

The license plate infraction is beside the point. The officer may have pulled him over just to let the guy know his plate was about to fall off just to be helpful. We’ll never know because of how the ass treated the cop.

192

Veg - I hear what you are saying, and I agree with much of it. What you are talking about is changing policies, and I don’t think that handling business in the street will change policies. Changes are done in court. My opinions that I mentioned are based on the video provided, I know not everyone as a whole behaves like that (thank God.) This guy got out of his car immediately, and no one I have ever known has done something like that. Most people don’t just get out of their car the moment they are stopped by police, because they follow the rules for the most part. I do think you should be allowed to question the nature of offense to the officer, and ultimately you should have the right to contest the offense in question. Your #4 option you mentioned above, is what I was referring to with being smart about your fight. By being smart and fighting it with your brain, you have a much better chance of changing those policies which can be oppressive. And if this successful, then everyone wins as a whole.

As far as tazering goes, I think that most people are in such a state of shock that when they are first tazered, their bodies just doesn’t function normally. People may want to surrender or stop, but they are in pain and confusion that they just don’t know how. The electricity is putting their body in a state of spasm and they don’t have control of it. So I do think that should be taken into consideration when guys are tazered.

193

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
theOUTLAW wrote:

Again, the first hit was justified and a court would not find otherwise. If a police officer’s requests are reasonable, and you don’t obey, then you are free to get tasered. The rest of the hits are questionable and will get to a jury, because it’s not clear if he was resisting after he was down on the ground. That is why we have a court system and the 4th amendment to allow all of these lawsuits. There has been a million of these lawsuits, and the system is there to protect people from state officials abusing their authority. Obviously, if a police officer is acting unreasonably and is asking you to fuck your own ass with his police baton…you have a right to reasonably resist. Key word is reasonable in all of this. Both sides need to act reasonably.

Personally, like many others here, I believe if you’re being an idiot, you have it coming to you. However, justice is blind.

I don’t feel that any command to a non-threatening, law abiding citizen is reasonable. But once again, I’m curious, how far would you go? If I kicked down your door with a shotgun and shouted “police”, would you attempt to defend yourself? Would you get off a public sidewalk if told to, when others are walking down the street? would you go as far as putting your thumb up your butt? Who decides what is reasonable?[/quote]

To that cop and any court, that man will be considered a threat. A reasonable person when he is pulled over, stays in his car. A reasonable person would know that a cop would freak out when he gets out of his car and is being combative.

I would defend myself if I thought my life was in danger, and I knew that I was innocent of any possible crimes, but I don’t associate that type of behavior to cops. In that hypothetical situation though, I would resist arrest if that’s how they acted, and most likey, I’d be able to get off in court. There’s specific laws in states that let you resist if in fear of serious danger or death. Now, if I was put in that situation like in First Blood, hell yeah I’m trying to kick ass and get out, but that’s not reality.

Of course I wouldn’t put my thumb up my butt if a police officer asked me to…that’s clearly unreasonable, and if I was arrested for that, I’d be calling a lawyer.

If a police officer asked me to step off the sidewalk? I would obey if he was respectful…but not if he was being a dick and gave me no reason. This is different from this thread though, because the kid was unreasonable in the first place getting out of his car. I normally walk on sidewalks, that is a reasonable activity.

Common sense dictates reasonableness, and that’s how courts usually look at these lawsuits. They also go off of precedent from previous cases. For example, one of the most famous types of these cases was when two police officers entered a convenient store. One cop took a pair of shorts from the store and put it in his jacket. The owner saw this and confronted him, and then the officer threw the shorts in his face and left. The owner then followed the cops and the officer grabbed on to the guy and drug him along while driving. The officers were obviously fucked, one for dragging the guy along and elbowing him, and the other for not doing anything about it. The courts are there for this specific reason. Use common sense.

EDIT: just to give you insight on what these lawsuits are based on…the 4th amendment (protection from unreasonable searches and seizures) and the 14th amendment (prevention of the deprivation of life,liberty,property without due process of the law). The 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment) usually only applies to prison guards, etc.

194

Damn…I think I just lost all interest in this thread. Fucking soldiers went on a damn shooting spree on base here and killed 7 and wounded 12 people. One is in custody…the other and possibly a third are still on the loose hiding out somewhere on base.

I hate to hijack my own thread…but damn. I started a thread about it…but it hasn’t showed up yet.

195

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Veg - I hear what you are saying, and I agree with much of it. What you are talking about is changing policies, and I don’t think that handling business in the street will change policies. Changes are done in court. My opinions that I mentioned are based on the video provided, I know not everyone as a whole behaves like that (thank God.) This guy got out of his car immediately, and no one I have ever known has done something like that. Most people don’t just get out of their car the moment they are stopped by police, because they follow the rules for the most part. I do think you should be allowed to question the nature of offense to the officer, and ultimately you should have the right to contest the offense in question. Your #4 option you mentioned above, is what I was referring to with being smart about your fight. By being smart and fighting it with your brain, you have a much better chance of changing those policies which can be oppressive. And if this successful, then everyone wins as a whole.

As far as tazering goes, I think that most people are in such a state of shock that when they are first tazered, their bodies just doesn’t function normally. People may want to surrender or stop, but they are in pain and confusion that they just don’t know how. The electricity is putting their body in a state of spasm and they don’t have control of it. So I do think that should be taken into consideration when guys are tazered.

[/quote]

Hey, lets not get carried away here, this is the internet and we disagreed earlier in the thread, there is no coming to some mutual understanding at this point now buddy. I’m sorry you feel the need to agree with some of my points and I hereby now change my stance to the opposite so that we may once again be in dissagreement and balance may be brought back to the internet.

Ahhhhh… Much better, now what were we arguing about again?

V

196

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Is anyone here in the military? What is your duty if your commanding officer issues you a command and you know it is wrong. Like for instance, you are ordered to kill an innocent civilian or a fellow soldier? What is protocal?

V

listening to some here it would be “kill the person, then make your case latter”

in the field is not the appropriate time for decent.[/quote]

I love this. These are two entirely different things.

If you obey an unlawful order you are subject to THE LAW. That is why if my CO said go shot that 5 year old because he is Afghani I would say No Sir. I would probably be arrest by military police and be court martial at worst, but I would in the end come out clean as a whistle after my lawyer explained the situation.

Now in the video situation this guy wasn’t pulled over and immediately assaulted by the police instead he was give over 3 minutes and plenty of opportunities to follow a simple instruction. At worst had he complied he would spend the night in jail, but at his trial if the police were in teh wrong they would be punished and the guy would receive restitution. That’s how it works folks.

Now in the military scenario if I said “Fuck you sir kill him yourself.” I would be NJP’s anyway for disrespecting an officer and stripped of a rank at minimum. In both cases I’m right, but in the second scenario I went about it in the wrong way.

197

Just a few point

  1. Out of all the video’s posted of police brutality/abuse of power, which are wrong and the cops should be punished, what percentage of these incidents do you really think make up all the daily interaction police have with the citizens they protect? I would venture to guess a very small %.

  2. Further more why aren’t we talking about all the times the police are hurt, killed, etc… while on duty. What about their rights? Sure it’s their job to serve and protect, but don’t they have the basic human right to defend themselves as well?

  3. I love when folks say things like "I don’t care if you drink all day long even if I think it’s wrong, I’ll still die for your right to do it and “all you followers just keep following, me and others like me will continue to protect you from tyranny”. I’m mean really get off your high horse already. Most people that say that stupid shit would not die to protect anything except maybe their family and Tyranny??? last I checked we don’t live in China or North Korea. If you have a problem with the law call your congressman, make a fucking infomercial, or run for office. Seriously having respect for the authority our society has given our police makes sense doesn’t it? We give them that authority. We certainly aren’t going to let them abuse their power and there are avenues to correct abuses, but let get real the vast majority of police officers do the right think when push comes to shove and so does our military.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Just a few point

  1. Out of all the video’s posted of police brutality/abuse of power, which are wrong and the cops should be punished, what percentage of these incidents do you really think make up all the daily interaction police have with the citizens they protect? I would venture to guess a very small %.

  2. Further more why aren’t we talking about all the times the police are hurt, killed, etc… while on duty. What about their rights? Sure it’s their job to serve and protect, but don’t they have the basic human right to defend themselves as well?

  3. I love when folks say things like "I don’t care if you drink all day long even if I think it’s wrong, I’ll still die for your right to do it and “all you followers just keep following, me and others like me will continue to protect you from tyranny”. I’m mean really get off your high horse already. Most people that say that stupid shit would not die to protect anything except maybe their family and Tyranny??? last I checked we don’t live in China or North Korea. If you have a problem with the law call your congressman, make a fucking infomercial, or run for office. Seriously having respect for the authority our society has given our police makes sense doesn’t it? We give them that authority. We certainly aren’t going to let them abuse their power and there are avenues to correct abuses, but let get real the vast majority of police officers do the right think when push comes to shove and so does our military. [/quote]

Truth.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Just a few point

  1. Out of all the video’s posted of police brutality/abuse of power, which are wrong and the cops should be punished, what percentage of these incidents do you really think make up all the daily interaction police have with the citizens they protect? I would venture to guess a very small %.

  2. Further more why aren’t we talking about all the times the police are hurt, killed, etc… while on duty. What about their rights? Sure it’s their job to serve and protect, but don’t they have the basic human right to defend themselves as well?

  3. I love when folks say things like "I don’t care if you drink all day long even if I think it’s wrong, I’ll still die for your right to do it and “all you followers just keep following, me and others like me will continue to protect you from tyranny”. I’m mean really get off your high horse already. Most people that say that stupid shit would not die to protect anything except maybe their family and Tyranny??? last I checked we don’t live in China or North Korea. If you have a problem with the law call your congressman, make a fucking infomercial, or run for office. Seriously having respect for the authority our society has given our police makes sense doesn’t it? We give them that authority. We certainly aren’t going to let them abuse their power and there are avenues to correct abuses, but let get real the vast majority of police officers do the right think when push comes to shove and so does our military. [/quote]

Points all taken and noted. Here are some more of my thoughts on your thoughts.

Yes a lot of police are repectable and do thier job well. and Yes, in 99% of a persons interactions with them the person should be cool with the cop. I am all for making thier job easier. BUT as soon as I sense that hint from them that they are on a power trip, I am going to do what I am leagally allowed to do to let that cop KNOW that he doesn’t have power over me, that I give him his power and therefore I have power over him. Maybe not in the battle, but I do in the war.

One thing I can say is that a cop who is going to abuse his power is most likley going to do so with a person who is making his job harder or just giving him a hard time in general. It doesn’t mean the person is doing anything illegal mind you, just being an irritant, thats when they step over what they are legally allowed to do and that is when I will hold them accountable. For people who DO have a problem with abuse of power sometimes you have to be a little annoying to test cops. I have pulled my pocket constitution out both times I have been stopped since I got the thing. I handed it to the cop with my license and registration and told them the constitution was a gift to them. One put it in his pocket and didn’t say anything, One complimented me and said i’m with ya man. Both didn’t give me a ticket for going roughly 10 MPH over. (65 in 55)

Now to some of you, perhaps I was being a dick or doing something I wasn’t told to do. I just feel like I was communicating to the officers that as much as they are watching us, we are watching them too.

V

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Read “The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot” by Naomi Wolff, maybe then you’ll be less accepting of anything authoritative figures have to say.