Favourite Boxing Books for Learning

[quote]CarltonJ wrote:
General boxing question; how good do people think roy jones jr was?

I’ve heard both hes a top 5 goat, or that he didnt fight some of the top names in 90s.

for instance, I believe max Kellerman rates him top 5 and has mentioned him alongside sugar ray Leonard. Then I hear others say something contrary.

I don’t know much about 90s boxing, nor too many of his opponents. From what I know, I guess maybe he wasn’t the same time as eubank, benn or some of the other super middleweights? Eubank in particular who I believe had his best years very early 90s.

So yea, be interested to see how highly people rate him? He certainly seemed to be lightning fast, and I know we went from 160-heavyweight.[/quote]
Like you, I am a European.
We enjoyed some good times in the 80s & 90s with Middle’s and Supermiddles.

The domestic western European scene was dominated by three names. But a fourth may have been technically the best; Michael Watson.
On merit of their achievements though I would rate them;
Collins, Eubank, Benn, Watson.

Collins and Watson were the two to really take the gamble stateside, where they both fell to great light middle Mike McCallum.
Were it not for his tragic accident, I believe Watson would have been the best of the bunch.

But he still would have fallen behind James Toney and Roy Jones Jr.
Toney was a remarkable fighter in his prime, schooled by Bill Miller his mastery of George Benton’s shoulder roll was just beautiful. One of my favourite fighters ever.
Discipline could have seen him named GOAT at 168lbs.

Roy Jones Jr was robbbed of an Olympic Gold medal in Korea.
He was a phenom. Athletically he may be the most gifted fighter since SRR.

If you remember Jones in his prime; forget the losses he foolishly accumulated and disregard the pantomine fights still occurring, he was an animal that could be mentioned in the same breath as Ray Robinson.

Those of you who fight or spar regularly (or anyone qualified to input).

How often do you lead off the jab in an actual fight/spar?

And, if, personally, not enough, or too much, how often do you feel is idealistic to do so? Like, how many times do you set punches up with it?

I realise this is potentially broad, as a taller fighter would more than a short fighter. But if we were to assume 2 similarly sized opponents, neither one with a great reach or height advantage.

I?ve heard ?a good jab can win you a fight, a great fight can take you around the world? and George Foreman as an example said it was the most important punch. I don?t know if this is perhaps an exaggeration because he feels its underrated?

I find I can?t effectively implement it in fights and I think its because I don?t understand the purpose of it. I hear things like ?fending an opponent off?, but in reality my partners usually just walk through it or evade it. Ironically enough, technically, when on the bag or pads, its perhaps one of my more technically sound punches. Id guess maybe because, whilst its tactically complex, it?s the least technically complex?

Have I said the word technically enough?

Also, I caught Donnies and Sentoguys posts in the training for an mma fight. both very insightful. these forums really are a great, great place to learn about the complexities of fighting.

[quote]CarltonJ wrote:
Those of you who fight or spar regularly (or anyone qualified to input).

How often do you lead off the jab in an actual fight/spar?

And, if, personally, not enough, or too much, how often do you feel is idealistic to do so? Like, how many times do you set punches up with it?

I realise this is potentially broad, as a taller fighter would more than a short fighter. But if we were to assume 2 similarly sized opponents, neither one with a great reach or height advantage.

I?ve heard ?a good jab can win you a fight, a great fight can take you around the world? and George Foreman as an example said it was the most important punch. I don?t know if this is perhaps an exaggeration because he feels its underrated?

I find I can?t effectively implement it in fights and I think its because I don?t understand the purpose of it. I hear things like ?fending an opponent off?, but in reality my partners usually just walk through it or evade it. Ironically enough, technically, when on the bag or pads, its perhaps one of my more technically sound punches. Id guess maybe because, whilst its tactically complex, it?s the least technically complex?

Have I said the word technically enough? [/quote]

I used the up-jab a lot when i was sparring and fighting, but when I used my pet combination, which was basically a rushing jab jab straight i stepped into the jab hard.

I feel like its one of those things everyone says is important, but very few actually practice what they preach. Ive seen countless matches in the amateurs where guys would start off with a good jab, but as soon as they started landing leather, they’d forget to keep jabbing and would start with the swings.

To fend your opponent off the jab has to be authoritative or threatening. Meaning you’ve got to hit them every time they step to you, but footwork also plays into this, you can just stand in the same spot and jab, you’ve got to re-establish the range you want to be at.

Accuracy is another big issue, if your jabs are landing on your opponents headgear, its not going to bother him all that much, but if you’re smacking him on the nose or the chin it’s going to be a lot more persuasive.

Big george certainly wasn’t exaggerating, the man had a ram rod jab that busted people’s faces up bad, particularly in his comeback.

Try playing with the up-jab or holding your lead hand slightly extended (and facing towards the target), both will increase your chances of landing before the opponent has time to react.

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]CarltonJ wrote:

I feel like its one of those things everyone says is important, but very few actually practice what they preach. Ive seen countless matches in the amateurs where guys would start off with a good jab, but as soon as they started landing leather, they’d forget to keep jabbing and would start with the swings.

[/quote]

Can definitely see what you mean here. Funnily enough, I rewatched maidana broner last night. Maidana is boxing effectively in the second round, lands the big left hook, disguised as a jab to the body. Broner is badly hurt, but Maidana goes in for the kill swinging wildly and abandons the jab as paulie malignaggi points out.

Really nice point about where youre landing the jab. Hadnt thought of it like that, but of course, its so simple almost, I can land 5 jabs but if they all are to the top of the head then they aren’t going to do sh**.

Ill def give that alternate way off holding the jab an up-jab a try. (My understanding being that the latter, is thrown from a crouched position?)

great post, thanks for the time taken.

I aren’t doing this quote thing right at all

[quote]CarltonJ wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]CarltonJ wrote:

I feel like its one of those things everyone says is important, but very few actually practice what they preach. Ive seen countless matches in the amateurs where guys would start off with a good jab, but as soon as they started landing leather, they’d forget to keep jabbing and would start with the swings.
[/quote]

Can definitely see what you mean here. Funnily enough, I rewatched maidana broner last night. Maidana is boxing effectively in the second round, lands the big left hook, disguised as a jab to the body. Broner is badly hurt, but Maidana goes in for the kill swinging wildly and abandons the jab as paulie malignaggi points out.

Really nice point about where youre landing the jab. Hadnt thought of it like that, but of course, its so simple almost, I can land 5 jabs but if they all are to the top of the head then they aren’t going to do sh**.

Ill def give that alternate way off holding the jab an up-jab a try. (My understanding being that the latter, is thrown from a crouched position?)

great post, thanks for the time taken. [/quote]

The extended arm jab doesn’t have to be thrown from a crouch, for example I don’t know how much MMA you watch but if you’ve seen conor mcgregor fight, hes a guy who fights with a very straight but wide posture but always has his lead hand doing something to occupy his opponent

I want to say the crouch is preferable in boxing, but its less of a crouch and more of a slight fold in the rear hip, so ideally the head should be aligned over the rear hip which will increase the distance between your opponents lead hand and your head. That may only be a few inches difference, but thats a few inches more you have to react in time.

The up-jab can be thrown from any position, but of course its a good idea to vary your head position as you throw it, make a slip before, duck down after etc.

so, I sparred this weekend against an opponent much taller. hes 6’3, im a fraction of 5’10. (that fraction matters).

we did 12 - 2 minute rounds. he was a little lighter than me. although im like 20% bf at the moment and a lot of my weight isn’t functional so I feel in fighting condition Id be a lot lighter.

my question is, what do I do when he keeps peppering me with the jab? like, 4+ in a row.

I was having success when i hard jabbed to body paid. and sometimes I was faking a jab to bait him into the right hand and then Id slip and come back with the left hook. I did it a little too often though and he clocked on.

anyway, like I say, when he went with 4+ speed-esq jab it was a real nightmare. sometimes I slipped them all and regained good positioning and set up my attack. but othertimes he really pushed me back onto the ropes with it. none of them would land sometimes, but my footwork was comprised, I was square on and he could set up a much better attack.

on another note of sparring taller opponents, Ive seen quite a bit of joe fraizer and Tyson. getting inside is much harder than it looks. definitely love to hear of any drills people like for this.

So, I cant do pad work as I train alone and at night.

On the rare occasion I can, I love it. I figured its time to stop idly omitting this sort of work from my routine and only using the heavy bag.

I was thinking of designing a routine where I would use pre-set combos with 0.5 kg weights. Similar to shadow boxing, but with more deliberate drills.

Wondered what peoples thoughts are on this? or a more appropriate solution. I find when I shadow box it can be a little aimless.

I was thinking of something like the below;

Jab, left hook, right hand, duck right, right hand left hook ? repeat 10-15 times.

And then so on for 8-10 more combinations, with movement built in.

All input appreciated.