Favorite Shoulder Builders?

Training
41

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
And a real olympic bar doesn’t have any middle knurling, which reduced the risk of scratching your neck.
[/quote]

Am I seeing things wrong? When I look at videos of the olympics, it looks like there’s center knurling.

Say, at 1:19:05 in this video:

[/quote]

No rough center knurling. It’s a smooth knurling, about 25% as rough as the regular knurling. Some bars have that, but not all of them.[/quote]

Thanks. I’ve never been around a true olympic bar, so I never knew how that worked.[/quote]

Powerlifting bars tend of have a rough knurling in the center to make the bar more solid in the squat position. But in olympic lifting a rough knurling is highly uncomfortable for the throat when catching a clean.
[/quote]

I’ve a nice throat blister to testify to that…

Tried to power clean a Texas power bar once, I will never make that mistake again!

CT how much leg drive would you call acceptable for shoulder development? I sometimes use a little so I have to lock the last third of the ROM out with my arms, if I’m just trying to shift weight the bar damn near bounces to lock out from my shoulders.

42

[quote]MAsteve wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
And a real olympic bar doesn’t have any middle knurling, which reduced the risk of scratching your neck.
[/quote]

Am I seeing things wrong? When I look at videos of the olympics, it looks like there’s center knurling.

Say, at 1:19:05 in this video:

[/quote]

No rough center knurling. It’s a smooth knurling, about 25% as rough as the regular knurling. Some bars have that, but not all of them.[/quote]

Thanks. I’ve never been around a true olympic bar, so I never knew how that worked.[/quote]

Powerlifting bars tend of have a rough knurling in the center to make the bar more solid in the squat position. But in olympic lifting a rough knurling is highly uncomfortable for the throat when catching a clean.
[/quote]

I’ve a nice throat blister to testify to that…

Tried to power clean a Texas power bar once, I will never make that mistake again!

CT how much leg drive would you call acceptable for shoulder development? I sometimes use a little so I have to lock the last third of the ROM out with my arms, if I’m just trying to shift weight the bar damn near bounces to lock out from my shoulders.
[/quote]

As big leg drive you can use without jumping. If the weight flies up, use more weight :slight_smile: But really, adjust the amount of leg drive to the load used. Don’t try to throw a 50% bar to the ceiling!

I personally started doing push presses with chains (takes a while to find the proper set-up… I’ll post a picture when I get home). I seems to work pretty well since you really can’t have too much leg drive because of the accomodating resistance. You do have to get used to the feeling first though.

43

480×640 66.7 KB

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I personally started doing push presses with chains (takes a while to find the proper set-up… I’ll post a picture when I get home). I seems to work pretty well since you really can’t have too much leg drive because of the accomodating resistance. You do have to get used to the feeling first though.[/quote]

Something like this?

44

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I personally started doing push presses with chains (takes a while to find the proper set-up… I’ll post a picture when I get home). I seems to work pretty well since you really can’t have too much leg drive because of the accomodating resistance. You do have to get used to the feeling first though.[/quote]

Something like this?[/quote]

Something like that

45

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
This thread has inspired me to re-include push presses into my training. I removed them because I figured they were not a good shoulder developer due to the momentum & leg drive.

One question about form: Should the bar start in the rack position, or is it okay if it starts in the hands resting on the upper sternum (especially for those with a lack of shoulder flexibility)[/quote]

The bar should start in the rack position. The elbows do not have to be super high, but the bar has to be against the throat and resting on the shoulders. Those who are incapable of racking the bar properly are very unlikely to be able to reach a proper finish position.

Seriously, when you find a mobility issue you should strive to fix it, not change exercise or do the movement anyway but with bad form. If anything it’s great when you have to work on mobility to be able to do an exercise because it really tells you something that might be a injury problem in the future.[/quote]

Can you perhaps share some ideas on getting to the rack position for those of us who have difficulty there? I would REALLY like to have that ability but my wrists/arms pretty much refuse to go there right now.

I stretch wrists pretty frequently and seem to get nowhere with it. Thank you.

46

[quote]mutantcolors wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
This thread has inspired me to re-include push presses into my training. I removed them because I figured they were not a good shoulder developer due to the momentum & leg drive.

One question about form: Should the bar start in the rack position, or is it okay if it starts in the hands resting on the upper sternum (especially for those with a lack of shoulder flexibility)[/quote]

The bar should start in the rack position. The elbows do not have to be super high, but the bar has to be against the throat and resting on the shoulders. Those who are incapable of racking the bar properly are very unlikely to be able to reach a proper finish position.

Seriously, when you find a mobility issue you should strive to fix it, not change exercise or do the movement anyway but with bad form. If anything it’s great when you have to work on mobility to be able to do an exercise because it really tells you something that might be a injury problem in the future.[/quote]

Can you perhaps share some ideas on getting to the rack position for those of us who have difficulty there? I would REALLY like to have that ability but my wrists/arms pretty much refuse to go there right now.

I stretch wrists pretty frequently and seem to get nowhere with it. Thank you.
[/quote]

I do this for my front squat … seems to work

47

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:
This thread has inspired me to re-include push presses into my training. I removed them because I figured they were not a good shoulder developer due to the momentum & leg drive.

One question about form: Should the bar start in the rack position, or is it okay if it starts in the hands resting on the upper sternum (especially for those with a lack of shoulder flexibility)[/quote]

The bar should start in the rack position. The elbows do not have to be super high, but the bar has to be against the throat and resting on the shoulders. Those who are incapable of racking the bar properly are very unlikely to be able to reach a proper finish position.

Seriously, when you find a mobility issue you should strive to fix it, not change exercise or do the movement anyway but with bad form. If anything it’s great when you have to work on mobility to be able to do an exercise because it really tells you something that might be a injury problem in the future.[/quote]

But should we have a full grip on the bar or simply resting on the fingertips?

48

I really think it’s either my wrist, or my arms are so long for my body they are just in the way. My middle finger hands about 4" above my knee at rest.

I can jam my elbow as closed as it seems possible to go without even feeling a tricep stretch. Forearm smashing into bicep. but when I bring it up to rack position, my hands are like, behind my face.

49

[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
I really think it’s either my wrist, or my arms are so long for my body they are just in the way. My middle finger hands about 4" above my knee at rest.

I can jam my elbow as closed as it seems possible to go without even feeling a tricep stretch. Forearm smashing into bicep. but when I bring it up to rack position, my hands are like, behind my face.[/quote]

your grip might be too close …maybe this?

50

Thanks for the tips man, I will see how that feels next time I go in.

51

[quote]concepthenry wrote:

[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
I really think it’s either my wrist, or my arms are so long for my body they are just in the way. My middle finger hands about 4" above my knee at rest.

I can jam my elbow as closed as it seems possible to go without even feeling a tricep stretch. Forearm smashing into bicep. but when I bring it up to rack position, my hands are like, behind my face.[/quote]

your grip might be too close …maybe this?

I personally clean with a very wide grip. BUT it does require more external shoulder rotation mobility. Even people with long arms, if they lack external shoulder rotation they will have trouble with a very wide grip.

52

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]concepthenry wrote:

[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
I really think it’s either my wrist, or my arms are so long for my body they are just in the way. My middle finger hands about 4" above my knee at rest.

I can jam my elbow as closed as it seems possible to go without even feeling a tricep stretch. Forearm smashing into bicep. but when I bring it up to rack position, my hands are like, behind my face.[/quote]

your grip might be too close …maybe this?

I personally clean with a very wide grip. BUT it does require more external shoulder rotation mobility. Even people with long arms, if they lack external shoulder rotation they will have trouble with a very wide grip.[/quote]

So does that then mean that you press with a very wide grip or do you reset before you press or is your push press grip different than your clean grip?

53

[quote]And30res wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]concepthenry wrote:

[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
I really think it’s either my wrist, or my arms are so long for my body they are just in the way. My middle finger hands about 4" above my knee at rest.

I can jam my elbow as closed as it seems possible to go without even feeling a tricep stretch. Forearm smashing into bicep. but when I bring it up to rack position, my hands are like, behind my face.[/quote]

your grip might be too close …maybe this?

I personally clean with a very wide grip. BUT it does require more external shoulder rotation mobility. Even people with long arms, if they lack external shoulder rotation they will have trouble with a very wide grip.[/quote]

So does that then mean that you press with a very wide grip or do you reset before you press or is your push press grip different than your clean grip?[/quote]

Since my goal is to improve the olympic lifts I use the same grip for push presses that I do for jerks, which is the same grip as my clean (pinky finger about 1" inside power ring)… but right now I’m doing more push presses from behind the neck to work on the proper catch position for the jerk.

54

Just tried BTN Push Presses and my body likes them so much more than regular push presses. Seems to keep my lower back from over extending and I can feel it working my shoulders more than I could with regular push presses. I think I was going too explosive on regular push presses with my shoulders only coming into play at the very top. I have to use less weight but I can feel it doing more. My grip was probably too close on the regular push press as well.

Thanks for these CT.

55

[quote]LordDogwood wrote:
Just tried BTN Push Presses and my body likes them so much more than regular push presses. Seems to keep my lower back from over extending and I can feel it working my shoulders more than I could with regular push presses. I think I was going too explosive on regular push presses with my shoulders only coming into play at the very top. I have to use less weight but I can feel it doing more. My grip was probably too close on the regular push press as well.

Thanks for these CT.[/quote]

The real reason you are feeling it more is because with the BTN push press, if you press in a straight line, the barbell ends up in the optimal overhead position, where the whole shoulders are contracted 100%. If you press in a straight line with regular push presses the bar ends up in front and only the front delts gets optimally stimulated (which is why in a proper push press you have to push the bar behind your ears).

56

OK that must have been what I was doing then, push pressing in a straight line and not finishing behind my ears.

57

CT, I have a question… Does the push press have a good carry over to other types of pressing? Apparently if you can push press big weights, you’ll be good at pressing in any other direction, but I don’t know whether this is true or just people trying to glorify the push press. Thanks!

58

[quote]LordDogwood wrote:
Just tried BTN Push Presses and my body likes them so much more than regular push presses. Seems to keep my lower back from over extending and I can feel it working my shoulders more than I could with regular push presses. I think I was going too explosive on regular push presses with my shoulders only coming into play at the very top. I have to use less weight but I can feel it doing more. My grip was probably too close on the regular push press as well.

Thanks for these CT.[/quote]

why would you want to be less explosive? the shoulders are the weak link (for me at least) wouldn’t you just go heavier and be as explosive as possible? something i’m missing here?

59

I think it was more about bad form than being too explosive. Try it behind the neck next time and see if you notice a difference.

60

been doing it behind the neck. shoulders are supposed to be the weak link. if the weights get heavy enough, leg drive alone won’t get it to lockout.