Favorite Power Foods

Nutrition
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This is starting to feel argumentative so I’m going to duck out after this post as that’s not my intent. I think this has been an interesting conversation with plenty to reference and make decisions about on either side, which is awesome.

Regarding cooking veggies and utilization, I don’t think anybody can say for sure why veggies were cooked by the ancients, but another theory that seems highly plausible to me is they did have a rudimentary one-off understanding of sterilization.

As they were humans with human brains and intelligence, their observation skills would’ve been strong enough to recognize that cooking led to fewer illnesses. Alternatively, I think it’s hard to say they had an ability to observe the difference in nutrient absorption between cooked and uncooked food. They didn’t have bloodwork to analyze, radioactive isotopes to trace et cetera.

Another example of one-off health decisions could be middle age European beer consumption. They knew they got sick off of what we now know as non potable water, but didn’t understand microorganisms or bacteria fully. Hell, they thought illness was a curse from Satan. They also knew they didn’t get as sick if they drank beer. Interestingly, the fermentation process crowds out bacteria as yeast utilizes the same nutrients but is more aggressive, and the ensuing alcohol kills microorganisms. No way they knew this science, but they knew it worked.

This also acknowledges that ancients did eat plants, which doesn’t support Carnivore.

In any case, there does seem to be legitimate data supporting the value of cooking vegetables, as well as eating them with fat for nutrient absorption, which further supports an omnivorous diet:

https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/11/raw-vs-cooked-vegetables#:~:text=Cooking%20can%20have%20positive%20effects,can%20be%20challenging%20to%20digest.

On the other hand, science also shows that some veggies are healthier via nutrient availability in raw form: Fact or Fiction: Raw Veggies are Healthier than Cooked Ones | Scientific American

There are no cases I can find outside of Carnivore marketing or crackpot sources that say humans can’t benefit from veggies.

Maybe a safe bet to boil all veggies if super concerned and not sweat the relative reductions in fiber and specific nutrients, but probably worth considering a Carnivore diet might not be the best approach for an omnivorous being, long term.

But, as always, to each their own.

Good discussion.

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Ah, I apologize if it looked like I was talking about nutrient absorption. Far from that: I was speaking exactly about what you wrote here

Gotta cook these things if you’re gonna eat them. Take away the defense chemicals.

I honestly don’t know of anyone in the carnivore sphere that is saying otherwise about this. Every single carnivore I know of acknowledges that ancient humans ate plants. I feel like it’s more the “why” they did it that is debated.

Always appreciate the discussion. The forums are good for that.

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To be clear, bacterial infections are the angle I’m addressing. I have yet to get sick from a salad made with properly washed and handled raw vegetables.

Agreed.

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I’d imagine not. A single dose is typically not enough (although I suppose it COULD be possible if you made it a goal and made creative use of a blender, haha). For myself, I’ve definitely overconsumed a single plant to the point that I reached a “tipping point” in toxicity. I’m currently seeing my wife experience the same thing with certain chilipowders.

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4-5 whole free range large eggs a day. If you’re trying to add muscle or retain muscle while dieting, this should be a staple in your diet.

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How about 36?

image

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Who can question Gironda !!!

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I got 99% of my nutrition and training advice from John Meadows.

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There are certainly worse resources

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I went down a rabbit hole of research around claims on both sides of the vegetable coin, including my own in case I was just regurgitating old, internalized concepts and had to pop back in with another angle for consideration.

I admittedly was primarily interested in researching the idea that natural plant “Pesticides” could actually make us sick as they exist to ward of animal consumption. It seemed highly plausible.

I learned about an entirely new to me concept called “hormesis” during the process.

My laymen’s interpretation is that hormesis is a dose dependent response to stressors and even toxins that in small doses does cause agitation, but at a level the bodies response is the magic sauce that overall generates a positive health effect. Not unlike intentional tissue damage and inflammation in the gym leading to all the beautiful things I know we can all agree that we love.

Anyways, vegetables induce hormesis within us, and many of the phytochemicals that have unarguably proven positive health effects specifically work through this pathway.

So yes, veggies do poison us, but only to the extent they are helping us.

Again not being argumentative, I just prefer pragmatic objectivity. The convo sincerely led me to research so I love it.

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I do up to 12

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Well would you look at that!

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That’s a lot. Are eggs your primary protein source?

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about 50%… mostly beef but eggs are a perfect food

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Hormesis is certainly a fascinating concept. Exercise is a great example of that. Since you brought up Paul Saladino previously, you may find his discussions on the topic interesting

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Wellllll… T Nation sells a Superfood consisting of fruits / vegetables. Which Ive used btw.

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I completely understand T-Nation is a supplement company’s marketing arm.

Fwiw, I found the posted study on my own and appreciate the objective explanation it gives.

I think it’s interesting TC had written an article about it, but the info is pretty objective. He does a much better job laying out than I did.

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Edit: USED to sell.

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I just watched a YouTube video, and it was interesting. He discussed environmental hormesis (sauna) vs molecular (broccoli). He avoids molecular hormesis, saying the plant chemicals causing hormesis have too many negative downstream effects, like a drug. He didn’t share any references or data. I’ll have to dig a little further but I’m not seeing it on his website at first glance either, just unsubstantiated claims.

All things considered from reams of studies discussing observable health benefits of vegetables, through the earlier posted link demonstrating we have the same intestinal bacteria herbivores do for digesting plant nutrients to Paul’s own Carnivore reversal, I’m just not seeing it and am back to “to each their own”.