[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I’d personally nix the sprints. I understand that you appreciate the benefits it brings, but just from my own experience, I was never able to lose fat while performing conditioning. I actually ALWAYS put on weight whenever I do that, without fail. It’s actually something I use as a weight gain technique.
[/quote]
That’s interesting to hear, do you feel the benefits come from an increase in appetite or some other reason?[/quote]
I think that’s one of the most significant factors for sure. I imagine it also boils down to the fact that you build muscle by DOING something versus not doing something, and conditioning is just another activity that allows for that to happen.
It’s why I tend to vector toward less activity for weight loss rather than more.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I’d personally nix the sprints. I understand that you appreciate the benefits it brings, but just from my own experience, I was never able to lose fat while performing conditioning. I actually ALWAYS put on weight whenever I do that, without fail. It’s actually something I use as a weight gain technique.
[/quote]
That’s interesting to hear, do you feel the benefits come from an increase in appetite or some other reason?[/quote]
I think that’s one of the most significant factors for sure. I imagine it also boils down to the fact that you build muscle by DOING something versus not doing something, and conditioning is just another activity that allows for that to happen.
It’s why I tend to vector toward less activity for weight loss rather than more.
[/quote]
Now I have some (very modest) strength to maintain, I tend to do exactly the same. 5/3/1 Full Body, Full Boring is my go to template recently, coupled with a fairly active job and that’s my activity done so I can concentrate my will power on nutrition, always my biggest challenge.
For some reason I’d never considered the logical extension that if cutting conditioning is good for losing weight, adding it might help with gaining. I think this might be worth an experiment.
I’m starting to think you might as well just write my training template for me, since I’m pretty much stealing all your ideas anyway.
For some reason I’d never considered the logical extension that if cutting conditioning is good for losing weight, adding it might help with gaining. I think this might be worth an experiment.
I’m starting to think you might as well just write my training template for me, since I’m pretty much stealing all your ideas anyway.[/quote]
Legitimately, a great deal of how I go about approaching training is “look at what everyone else is doing, then do the exact opposite of it”, as it hinges off the thought process that, since more people fail than succeed, the most popular approaches are most likely the most incorrect. The instance of “more conditioning for more weight gain” is one of those cases.
Definitely give it a try. It works for me, and it means you can play a little fast and loose with the calories while gaining since you’re putting so many demands on the body.
For some reason I’d never considered the logical extension that if cutting conditioning is good for losing weight, adding it might help with gaining. I think this might be worth an experiment.
I’m starting to think you might as well just write my training template for me, since I’m pretty much stealing all your ideas anyway.[/quote]
Legitimately, a great deal of how I go about approaching training is “look at what everyone else is doing, then do the exact opposite of it”, as it hinges off the thought process that, since more people fail than succeed, the most popular approaches are most likely the most incorrect. The instance of “more conditioning for more weight gain” is one of those cases.
Definitely give it a try. It works for me, and it means you can play a little fast and loose with the calories while gaining since you’re putting so many demands on the body.[/quote]
I’ll add a session or two a week for my next training block and see how it works for me.
I’ve realised that I had by far my most impressive physique and was most successful with my goals when I was doing everything wrong. Likewise, doing everything “right” seemed to be a fast track to nowhere. Now I’m sure age played a big part in this equation, but I don’t think it cam be the only reason.
[quote]Aero51 wrote:
With my calorie estimates I was shooting for suggestion number 2. Really, I got upset because Ive got a few other things weighing on my mind, like my perpetual inability to follow routines, career not working out, sleep still not fixed, etc.
[/quote]
It looks to me like you were in category 3, rather than 2.
To lose 2lbs of fat a week you have to be 7,000 calories under maintenance. That’s a lot. It requires a serious effort with both diet and training. I don’t know how tall or old you are or how much muscle mass you’re carrying, but I’d guess a 1,000 calorie daily deficit for you is at MOST 2500 kcal. Probably less.
I suggest you read a bunch of the fat loss articles on this site, to get an idea of various approaches. Here is one: The Five Principles of Radical Fat Loss
Not that you need to totally change your approach. Just lower calories slightly and gradually add exercise if you aren’t losing at the rate you want to.
The only thing I can think of that would have been responsible for the 1lb gain is an increase in the size of my legs and the associated water retained in the muscles. They are noticeably larger and firmer (my legs grow freakishly fast and are large despite being crappy at the squat).
I guess I can lower the daily caloric intake to below 2500kcal and see what happens…
The 1lb could be a lot of things and it isn’t worth worrying about. If you just stick to 2500 / day and keep up the training you will lose bf over time.
That said, if you want to lose weight FAST (e.g. 2lbs / week, about what you said your goal is), I’d say your diet is far from optimal. Cheese and orange juice for breakfast? Roast beef sandwiches?
You can definitely lose weight just estimating calories and coming a bit under maintenance but if you want to be aggressive with the fat loss I suggest focusing diet on vegetables and lean protein and minimizing fat and simple carbs.
[quote]craze9 wrote:
The 1lb could be a lot of things and it isn’t worth worrying about. If you just stick to 2500 / day and keep up the training you will lose bf over time.
That said, if you want to lose weight FAST (e.g. 2lbs / week, about what you said your goal is), I’d say your diet is far from optimal. Cheese and orange juice for breakfast? Roast beef sandwiches?
You can definitely lose weight just estimating calories and coming a bit under maintenance but if you want to be aggressive with the fat loss I suggest focusing diet on vegetables and lean protein and minimizing fat and simple carbs.[/quote]
x2
Food quantity (caloric surplus/deficit) effects your weight. Food quality effects your body composition.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
At a quick glance, appears to be a lot of advice in here from people who haven’t really seriously cut themselves and are going by hearsay.
Am I wrong? [/quote]
This is the best I’ve ever accomplished/documented
Definitely not stage ready, but I was able to squat 500lbs and deadlift 600 while cutting down to that, and since the TC trains strongman, I figured my experiences would probably map on well.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
At a quick glance, appears to be a lot of advice in here from people who haven’t really seriously cut themselves and are going by hearsay.
Am I wrong? [/quote]
What would you recommend? At least provide the OP a better approach if you have one.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
At a quick glance, appears to be a lot of advice in here from people who haven’t really seriously cut themselves and are going by hearsay.
Am I wrong? [/quote]
This is the best I’ve ever accomplished/documented
Definitely not stage ready, but I was able to squat 500lbs and deadlift 600 while cutting down to that, and since the TC trains strongman, I figured my experiences would probably map on well.
What would you advise him to do?[/quote]
That looks like solid work. I thought about it last night about whether a person should add or cut back on work/conditioning to lose weight. I tend to think that beginners (lower strength levels and muscle mass) or people with higher body fat should do a bit more work to lose weight since the strength work isn’t that taxing and they have a lower metabolism rate. Whereas people with lower body fat and more muscle mass need to cut down on conditioning and focus more on diet because the recovery is so specific on strength (for powerlifters). At least for me, my approach for weight loss has changed over time.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
That looks like solid work. I thought about it last night about whether a person should add or cut back on work/conditioning to lose weight. I tend to think that beginners (lower strength levels and muscle mass) or people with higher body fat should do a bit more work to lose weight since the strength work isn’t that taxing and they have a lower metabolism rate. Whereas people with lower body fat and more muscle mass need to cut down on conditioning and focus more on diet because the recovery is so specific on strength (for powerlifters). At least for me, my approach for weight loss has changed over time.
What’s your opinion on that?[/quote]
I would never utilize conditioning as a fat loss aid. I think cardio has a place in that regard, but even then I think it’s better saved as an ace in the hole once someone has made substantial dietary changes and is no longer able to elicit a desired response from nutrition alone. If you use all of your tools right at the start, you kind of put yourself in a hole when you hit a stall. If you’ve always got something that can be added or modified, you never run out of room/time.
That’s just me though. There are a lot of folks on here that have achieved some pretty insane fat loss.
Well, like I said, there are different approaches. It’s often recommended on this forum to do the gradual, “bodybuilding” approach, where you keep calories as high as possible while still able to lose fat and don’t do much cardio/conditioning, until you have to in order to continue progress. This works and is definitely the best approach for someone competing – either a bodybuilder who needs to maximize LBM or a lifter who needs to maximize strength.
I’m not sure it’s the best approach for a non-competitor. For one thing, it involves a lot of attention to detail. A bodybuilder is going to be weighing/measuring all his food, cooking in bulk and putting little broccoli/chicken/rice meals in tupperware containers, etc. For the average person who WON’T be doing this, and will just be eyeballing food and guessing at calories, it presents some problems.
I’ve lost weight in different ways over the years, mostly using very un-scientific “eat less, exercise more” approaches, but also measuring/calculating all intake to lose 1 lb / week. I’ve gone from extremes of 200 to 169 and back up and down in between.
But, my overall point is there’s a big difference between what will work best to cut for a guy like Punisher, starting with a lot of LBM and the goal of losing 12 lbs to compete in powerlifting, and an obese guy who wants to lose 30 lbs in 2-3 months.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I find it odd how often my success is used to discredit my methods, haha.[/quote]
Just because successful people don’t use the same methods as me, doesn’t mean I’m wrong, it just means you’re a genetic freak. Just think how successful you’d be if you did everything “right”. You and that George Leeman fellow, oh and that Matt Kroc and Dave Tate, they’d all be monsters if only they’d learn to train properly.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
At a quick glance, appears to be a lot of advice in here from people who haven’t really seriously cut themselves and are going by hearsay.
Am I wrong? [/quote]
For my part, I have successfully managed to stop being a fat fuck. Anyone looking to get below about 15% (a real 15%, not an internet 15%), is probably beyond the point where I can offer any assistance.