i guess I should be about 400 lbs by now.
We’ve been through all of this before on a previous thread. Will everyone look it up before they throw down?
right DBMuscle, because you know more about the subject than Lyle McDonald…LMAO. Why don’t you refer to this study:
J Biol Chem. 1998 Aug 14;273(33):20903-9. Chylomicron-specific enhancement of acylation stimulating protein and precursor protein C3 production in differentiated human adipocytes. Scantlebury T, Maslowska M, Cianflone K.
ok, who cares about some stupid study? i wonder if it’s any good, anyway.
you’re telling me dietary fat is stored as fat? that’s rediculous…many people have dropped a lot of fat eating high fat diets.
lyle mcdonald is easily one of the smartest guys nutrition wise around. it woudl be wise if you t-mag readers took a sec to look to other places besides berardi.
just fyi, lyle completely disagrees with berardi’s food combining theories and has posted his arguments before on other forums. look it up on mfw.
Morg, try and understand the concept of fat balance and its place in total caloric balance
Once you research that, then check back
but not to be too mean, I will give an example (very simplistically)
If you have a +ve fat balance, you are gaining adipose tissue.
Fat balance = fat intake vs fat oxidation
on a low carb diet, your fat oxidation increases, but so does your fat intake. if your fat intake>fat oxidation you because fat.
If your fat intake<fat oxidation, you lose fat.
On a high carbohydate intake, your fat oxidation is reduced, BUT the same parameters apply. Because your fat oxidation has dropped, you have to drop your fat intake or you become fat.
And also, all the fat storage after a meal is pointless. Its fat storage/use over a longer (~24hr) time period that is more useful. It doesnt matter if you store all the fat from one meal, if you are eating hypocaloric, you will use that energy/fat later in the day…
i can’t claim to know the absolute truth of whether nutrient partitioning significantly reduces fat gain or not, but one thing from berardi’s latest article really stuck out.
"First, if you’ve followed my writing since my “Massive Eating” article was published (way back in March of 2001), you’ll know that I don?t even suggest that anyone should follow massive eating year-round. Rather, it’s a good strategy for, what some might call, “clean bulking” (i.e. eating good food while trying to pack on lean mass while minimizing fat mass).
So be careful with the “why can’t we…” questions. And be careful not to extrapolate too broadly about massive eating’s utility…it was designed for the unique situation where a hard training weight lifter wants to gain quality lean mass with minimal fat mass."
so, what this tells me is that he really only stresses P+F/P+C meals for clean bulking (or cutting), but not necessarily for maintenance. is this what everyone gets from this statement? if this is so, then aren’t we getting a little anal about maintenance nutrition? i understand wanting to have everything order when you’re going to be eating 5k calories a day, but can anyone really report significant fat gain that can’t be attributed to other factors (inactivity, bingeing/overeating, eating too many kcals, lots of sugary/starchy carbs, etc.)?
cycomike,
i’ll agree with that. from the quote given before, it sounded like fat is stored as fat.
i know we;re not bears, but look at grizzlies eating to gain fat for winter. what do they eat a lot of? about 100 lbs of fatty salmon skin per day.
Great thread guys…however…
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We can throw around terms like gylcemic index, glycemic load, etc., all day long, but unless you consider the problem graphically (quantitatively) you will get nowhere. The maximum amplitude (i.e. “spiking” of insulin in the blood) is probably important in terms of shifting biochemical control mechanisms quickly into gear. However, it is the area under the insulin and glucose curves that will probably ultimately have a greater fact on glucose storage / utilisation rates, etc. Ideally, the scenarios that have been mentioned above should be considered with overlapping curves of [glucose] vs. time and [insulin] vs. time.
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It’s great to express your opinions and ideas, and to agree or disagree with others. Supplying quotations is helpful also, and as long as things aren’t taken out of context, this can support your argument. Please don’t get caught up in dogmatism or hero worship though. Both John222 and Ceaze are quoting Lyle McDonald like he is an indisputable source. This is foolish and lazy. For example. John Berardi really knows his stuff, but that doesn’t mean that I blindly memorize everything that he writes without considering whether it makes sense. I wouldn’t say: “But John Berardi said…” I would say: “In a carefully constructed experiment, John Berardi found…”
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Man, this thread gets better and better! I love the theories/explanations!
Originally, it seemed like Cease was staing that fat intake=fat gain, but I’m glad we got that worked out. Early on, it would been better to provide an explanation, references, and most importantly, the person who you’re quoting (otherwise why even have quotes, right?). Better late than never though.
Rather than debate, I’ll simply state that I’ve read the literature on ASP and it’s quite exciting! But it would also seem that ignoring the effect of insulin on fat gain/loss seems a little… “premature”.
Cheers!