Fat, Bald, and D@%n Near 50

Training Over 35 Lifter
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Friday morning workout

Bench Press: 135x5 wide grip wu, 185x5 wide grip wu, 225x5, 245x5, 255x3, 265x2, 275x1PR, 245x5
D Bell Press: 3x65x10
Dip: BWx7, BWx6
Seated Row: 95x10, 100x10, 100x8
Bent Row: 115x8, 115x5, 115x3
Treadmill: 13 minutes

As usual, rows were done superset style. I had my work spouse join me today. She was my spotter. So now I have a one rep max to train around. I think I could have gotten an assisted second rep at 275, but she is just learning the dynamics of weightlifting and spotting. It was nice having a bit of a safety factor around.

I gave out of gas by dip time. I will work up to 2 sets of 10 on the dips and start adding weight. I was all used by row time, just didn’t have enough in me to move the weight with the bent rows.

All in all it was a fun workout.

Oh and I wanted to thank Jimmy T, Hel, and Mday as well as the others that commented on my previous post. I guess I have started making it a point to thank the ones I can still thank that have influenced me ‘along the way’. Thanks for letting me babble on!!

Squats and deads in the morning!

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A word to the wise doing bent rows,seated rows and deadlifts on consecutive days can really fry your lower back unless you are doing them super strict. My advice is to substitute some sort of chest supported rows for the bent rows.

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Way to go on the new PR Willy. Having a spotter just makes things so much safer and allows you to push things a little.

I would second Ironman’s comment above. Watch the DL tomorrow…

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Thanks for the advise Mday and Ironman. Originally I had the power cleans in the dead lift spot. Maybe I should reconsider my thinking.

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[quote]Ironmantrw wrote:
A word to the wise doing bent rows,seated rows and deadlifts on consecutive days can really fry your lower back unless you are doing them super strict. My advice is to substitute some sort of chest supported rows for the bent rows. [/quote]

That is a good warning.

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I have to get something off my chest. Why bench AND dip? Why seated rows AND bent rows? Pardon me, but your redundancy is showing.

There. I said it.

Yeah, I used to do routines like this. Thought they were the cat’s meow. But way late in my training someone had the damn nerve to suggest (strongly, I might add) that I drop the redundant moves and just focus on ONE variation per muscle group. Guess what? My progress took off like I’d been shot out of a cannon.

Come on. Think about it. How much have you got left in the tank for dips if you’ve given your all to your bench press? Ditto for bent rows after doing seated rows? Heck, I even think doing OHP and bench press on the same day is a little like shooting yourself in the foot. Not that I haven’t done it, but still!

There’s nothing wrong with workin’ things from different angles and planes of motion, but you don’t have to cover all the bases in one workout. Or one cycle even!

I wouldn’t lie to you guys … Honest!

Cappy

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[quote]j_willy3 wrote:
Friday morning workout

Bench Press: 135x5 wide grip wu, 185x5 wide grip wu, 225x5, 245x5, 255x3, 265x2, 275x1PR, 245x5
D Bell Press: 3x65x10
Dip: BWx7, BWx6
Seated Row: 95x10, 100x10, 100x8
Bent Row: 115x8, 115x5, 115x3
Treadmill: 13 minutes

As usual, rows were done superset style. I had my work spouse join me today. She was my spotter. So now I have a one rep max to train around. I think I could have gotten an assisted second rep at 275, but she is just learning the dynamics of weightlifting and spotting. It was nice having a bit of a safety factor around.

I gave out of gas by dip time. I will work up to 2 sets of 10 on the dips and start adding weight. I was all used by row time, just didn’t have enough in me to move the weight with the bent rows.

All in all it was a fun workout.

Oh and I wanted to thank Jimmy T, Hel, and Mday as well as the others that commented on my previous post. I guess I have started making it a point to thank the ones I can still thank that have influenced me ‘along the way’. Thanks for letting me babble on!!

Squats and deads in the morning![/quote]

Nice bench PR J!

I have to second Ironman’s observation on the rows following a deadlift day. That lower back needs a day of rest between the two. I was wondering: do you really need bent rows after seated rows, they seem like pretty much the same exercise? Maybe 1-arm DB rows instead? And maybe go for a lighter weight and more reps.

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You may have a point on the rows but dips can be a tricep exercise working your lockout on your bench. Also it doesn’t hurt to throw in some type of shoulder movement such as overhead presses as long as it is not done to total failure. It also depends upon your goals. Just my opinion

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[quote]Ironmantrw wrote:
You may have a point on the rows but dips can be a tricep exercise working your lockout on your bench.[/quote]

Fine. I’ll give him, you, anyone that. But if you bench press (hard) first, don’t you think your triceps are going to be a tad fried to really get much from the dip?

So you’ll be forced to dip with less weight because your chest and shoulders are already somewhat fatigued … how does that improve tricep strength? If you want to give the triceps a little boost, wouldn’t it make more sense to do a close grip bench on another day?

Because it’s a compound movement, I think it’s a hard to grade your tricep progress with dips. Where do triceps leave off and the pecs and shoulders kick in? Hey, I’m a strong dipper, but I’d be hard pressed (no pun intended) to say if I’m a tricep dipper or a pec dipper.

I got the impression DB press is his OHP, but I might be wrong. And I agree … I don’t see anything wrong with that per se, as long as you realize your shoulders are going to be pre-fatigued if you do both in the same workout and place bench first.

Well yeah. Just my opinion too. But I thought his goals were strength-oriented?

Cappy

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[quote]Capacity wrote:
Ironmantrw wrote:
You may have a point on the rows but dips can be a tricep exercise working your lockout on your bench.

Fine. I’ll give him, you, anyone that. But if you bench press (hard) first, don’t you think your triceps are going to be a tad fried to really get much from the dip?

So you’ll be forced to dip with less weight because your chest and shoulders are already somewhat fatigued … how does that improve tricep strength? If you want to give the triceps a little boost, wouldn’t it make more sense to do a close grip bench on another day?

Because it’s a compound movement, I think it’s a hard to grade your tricep progress with dips. Where do triceps leave off and the pecs and shoulders kick in? Hey, I’m a strong dipper, but I’d be hard pressed (no pun intended) to say if I’m a tricep dipper or a pec dipper.

Also it doesn’t hurt to throw in some type of shoulder movement such as overhead presses as long as it is not done to total failure.

I got the impression DB press is his OHP, but I might be wrong. And I agree … I don’t see anything wrong with that per se, as long as you realize your shoulders are going to be pre-fatigued if you do both in the same workout and place bench first.

It also depends upon your goals. Just my opinion

Well yeah. Just my opinion too. But I thought his goals were strength-oriented?

Cappy

[/quote]

I think grip width determines whether it’s chest dominant or tricep dominant. Also the angle of the body in relation to the support, though with a dip belt on you’re going to be pretty much upright. Some folks hang the weight around their necks to affect that angle, not that I’m recommending that…

I also think that by changing the rep scheme between bench and OHP you can work both the same day - just not with the same emphasis. Some like to alternate days on which they emphasize OHP or bench.

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JW, let me sneak in a well done on the PR you troublemaker. I’m off to the gym now to, uh, lift some stuff.

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[quote]skidmark wrote:

I think grip width determines whether it’s chest dominant or tricep dominant.[/quote]

For bench, yes. Dips … damn hard to regulate, especially on some dip stations/bars. Same with forward lean. How you gonna keep track of that, eh? IMO … impossible! You know, there are benchers who are absolutely anal about using exact hand spacing, so it must count for something, right? But there isn’t any measureing stick for dips so you can’t be exact with forward lean. You just can’t.

Same points as above apply … so why bother trying to tinker with your dip form to better hit this or better hit that? Use your natural pathway and call it a day.

Right. Nonsense, IMO. Hang the weight around your neck and call it neck training. That would be more accurate!

Meaning … heavy/light? (Heavier for the movement you do less reps, lighter for the one you do more?)I dunno. I can’t bench (or dip) low reps and lots of weight, then follow with OHP for crap … so why bother? I’d rather come back in a day or two and hit OHP when I’m fresh, and give dips a breather. You’re going to fire up your shoulders, either way.

Yup. In my mind that leaves no question as to where your progress stands with each exercise. YMMV.

Cappy

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[quote]Capacity wrote:
I have to get something off my chest. Why bench AND dip? Why seated rows AND bent rows? Pardon me, but your redundancy is showing.

There. I said it.

Yeah, I used to do routines like this. Thought they were the cat’s meow. But way late in my training someone had the damn nerve to suggest (strongly, I might add) that I drop the redundant moves and just focus on ONE variation per muscle group. Guess what? My progress took off like I’d been shot out of a cannon.

Come on. Think about it. How much have you got left in the tank for dips if you’ve given your all to your bench press? Ditto for bent rows after doing seated rows? Heck, I even think doing OHP and bench press on the same day is a little like shooting yourself in the foot. Not that I haven’t done it, but still!

There’s nothing wrong with workin’ things from different angles and planes of motion, but you don’t have to cover all the bases in one workout. Or one cycle even!

I wouldn’t lie to you guys … Honest!

Cappy[/quote]

You know, when I dropped the bench press like exercise I was doing, the dips really took off.

The same for when I was doing chin ups and seated rows, dropped the one and the other took off.

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[quote]Elaikases wrote:
You know, when I dropped the bench press like exercise I was doing, the dips really took off.

The same for when I was doing chin ups and seated rows, dropped the one and the other took off.
[/quote]

Right! And here’s the thing; you (hopefully) have lots of years ahead of you to lift weights. Why do three press variations in one cycle? (Or on one day?) Why not rotate through them?

Pick one, work the crap out of it 'till your progress totally stalls, then switch to another variation and have at it awhile? This keeps boredom at bay and helps keep you from stalling out prematurely on the big important lifts.

It just seems a bit odd to me that so many here are worried about being older and their recovery and all, but nobody seems to be giving much thought to redundancy in their routines. At age 51 I can train 5 days a week as long as I don’t overdose on the big stuff.

Cappy

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WOW!! I never thought I would spur such a lively debate. While I’m out getting my ass handed to me by a customer from Asia, (this lady is one hard negotiator) y’all are having a deep philosophic debate over my training. Now is that cool or what!!

Cappy, Skid, Ironman, Big E, Mday, Hel I wish we could be having this over a few of my freshly imported Biere 333’s. I suspect it would be even livelier! But y’all are some damn good coaches, and THIS is what they don’t have going on at the other forums here on T-Nation.

But let me explain my thinking, and honestly, if y’all say I’m thinking like a dumbass, then call me out! Ya’ll can’t be as hard on my thinking and decision making as my wife can be!!! So fire away.

  1. My DBell Press is a dumb bell bench press.

  2. I have always done dips on bench day, just forced at habit. I used to do them first but they were effecting my bench, so I switched them around last week. My dips are done for triceps. I suspect I’m doing them in a triceps dominate manner because of the pump I get in them.

  3. Y’all make a damn good point about the rows and deads, AND the repeat exercises. I’m going to switch the deads and cleans back the way they were originally.

  4. The jury is out on the rows. I have always like doing them because they were fun. Plus my gym doesn’t have a T Bar. I really like doing them!

Guys and ladies, thanks for the input. To be honest, I’m honored that y’all read my crap and it can cause such a lively debate!

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[quote]j_willy3 wrote:
WOW!! I never thought I would spur such a lively debate. While I’m out getting my ass handed to me by a customer from Asia, (this lady is one hard negotiator) y’all are having a deep philosophic debate over my training. Now is that cool or what!![/quote]

Fun stuff!

Well here’s the rub: Call me crazy, but if I’m gonna post I’m not gonna do it just to blow sunshine up your butt.

Well crap. Hard to know what’s what unless you ask, I guess! OK, so why BP, dip AND DB press all in one workout? Good grief!!! Just bench. Or dip. Or DB press. (Moaning here …)

Uh … ya think? LOL!

How do you know that tri pump isn’t the result of cumulative fatigue from benching first? :wink:

Ok, so you like doing them. That’s cool. Do one form of row or the other, not both at the same time. When you max out and can’t milk any more gains from one, switch to the other. And so on and so forth …

Not really a “debate” to me, just a discussion … minus the Biere 333’s!

Cappy

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Y’know - it all depends on what you want. There are folks who like to do certain exercises just because they like them. Or they like a certain order. Or they like to feel tired. They just like whatever it is they are doing. That’s no problem

But if one’s stated goal is progression - more weight or more reps or more sets or getting faster you eventually have to address the fact that you have

  1. a limited energy store to perform the work
  2. a limited recovery capacity within with to get stronger.

At that point you do have to focus on what’s going to give you the bang for your energy buck. That’s when you start paring away redundant exercises, choosing movements that build on each other, separating movements that interfere with each other or shortening the workouts while making them more intense and possibly start taking ergogenic aids to improve recovery.

But determining what is the appropriate course starts with the end result one wishes to achieve and working backwards more often than not.

I don’t think anyone is “handing your ass to you.” I think each in our own way want to see you be successful and we’re each presenting a viewpoint on how that might be achieved. So far, Capacity and Ironmantrw have made the most sense.

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[quote]Diabetic wrote:
jwilly-
i understand where you are coming from.

at 57, i have the diabetes, the high cholestorol and the high bp. altho i have lost 70 pounds i still have it all. i continue to look and seek answers and alternative solutions. the medicines don’t solve the problem,only covering it up. just today i read some studies that viagra helps diabetes (not just in that area) and also weight lifters.

[/quote]

Well, when you eat carbohydrates some of the glucose is sent to blood stream for use in cells in the muscles and brains and various other functions but the excess glucose is converted to glycogen, triglycerides, and cholesterol. The body converts the sugar into triglycerides to avoid the effects of glycolated proteins as these are very very bad. Stop eating excessive carbohydrates(or all) and your cholesterol and triglycerides will improve.

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[quote]mechanicsteve wrote:
Diabetic wrote:
jwilly-
i understand where you are coming from.

at 57, i have the diabetes, the high cholestorol and the high bp. altho i have lost 70 pounds i still have it all. i continue to look and seek answers and alternative solutions. the medicines don’t solve the problem,only covering it up. just today i read some studies that viagra helps diabetes (not just in that area) and also weight lifters.

Well, when you eat carbohydrates some of the glucose is sent to blood stream for use in cells in the muscles and brains and various other functions but the excess glucose is converted to glycogen, triglycerides, and cholesterol. The body converts the sugar into triglycerides to avoid the effects of glycolated proteins as these are very very bad. Stop eating excessive carbohydrates(or all) and your cholesterol and triglycerides will improve. [/quote]

Absolutely. No-carb or really low-carb diets have reversed Type II diabetes, the ACQUIRED kind.

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OOOOHHHH!!! That hurt my soul! :wink: But I’m all about engagement and discussion. Good stuff here the last few hours.