Well, I just got my blood tests back and I’m really depressed, in more ways than one. My total T level is a measly 152 ng/dL and my serum E is 129 pg/mL. (Holy castrato! You read that right, T at 152.) Cortisol was nicely midrange, BTW, at 10.8 My next stop is at the endocrinologist
As for background info, I'm a 41 year old male, morbidly obese and looking to weight training as a method to cut the fat. (I'm using Poliquin's Manly Weight Loss and it seems to be working; I've lost about 15 lbs of fat so far.) I experimented with Tribex and ZMA before Christmas and they seemed to have some effect, including spontaneous erections, which I haven't had much of in years. I cycled off Tribex/ZMA for a week prior to the blood tests so I would get a more natural reading of the T-levels.
. While I'm waiting for the endocrinologist appointment, I wanted to pose these questions: Are my little guys probably kaput? Can I recover from this naturally or am I looking at a lifetime of hormone replacement therapy? Are there any unusual factors that I need to look at, maybe a mineral deficiency (other than zinc)? What questions do I need to ask the endocrinologist? Any help you can offer is welcome.
My latest diet plan pretty much looks like this: In the morning I pick up some protein, usually from 2-3 eggs depending on their size, (I’m using Omega 3 enhanced eggs now) plus a little cheese sometimes if I scramble them. Lunch is typically about 4 oz of beef (cafeteria hamburger, no cheese) on a plate, with some lettuce and onions. Maybe some A-1 sauce. Afternoon snack is usually a can of tuna in olive oil, plain. Supper is usually some sliced turkey, maybe some cheese, or some salmon, and a bigger salad. In late evening I have some organic juice with flax oil and soy lecithin. (I was pretty sure the lecithin alone doesn’t have the same effects as soy protein.)
In general, I avoid breads and high glycemic foods, as I found a few years ago that I feel best with an Atkins-style ketogenic diet. Unfortunately, his diet alone did not make me lose any fat.
Since I added in weight lifting a few months back, I experimented with Biotest Surge (yes, it does work!) although I'm not sure I want the carbs in it. I've just added in some Lo-Carb Grow the last week for extra protein on workout days. And yes, I'm trying to keep a food log so I should know my habits better.
Stop eating like a refugee! See the Don’t Diet articles, basically Massive Eating at lower caloric levels. Go big on the protein - slam a Grow shake every other meal, with Udo’s or flax added in. Add fish oil. Continue the Surge. Ditch the juice in the evening, instead add a casein shake right before bed. Try M, I’m your age and think it is effective. Bust ass in the gym, but allow plenty of recovery time. Don’t watch Oprah. There are other factors affecting low T, such as stress,bike seats, etc., so search this site and the web. Let us know what the doc says.
Beyond measuring total T, I would think you should have your free T(useable T), LH, TSH, and FSH levels checked. Depending on what those hormone levels are you should get a direction to where the problem lies within your HPTA. HCG or Clomid may be drugs to consider before going on long term HRT. If you cannot get your own endogenous T production back on track through the two drugs mentioned, then T replacement is in order. It really isn’t all that bad. Good luck
Just to agree with Calvin I’d also say drop the fruit juice as it could be raising your blood sugar levels rapidly which you don’t want. Also you don’t really want to be having any sort of carbs in the evening if you’re dieting down. So yes - go for some slow-digesting protein.
I might suggest that you retake your T rating after staying on your Zinc Mag (ZMA is OK)combo for a few weeks. Why would you stop it if it is working?? Some 95% of US citizens are deficient in Mag. My guess is that you are one of them. I would postpone your endo appointment until you test this. Most likely your Endo will want to put you on testosterone injections. They make their money each time you come in for a shot.
Be sure to crush the Zinc Mag tabs well and drink them down with liquid at bedtime and a good balanced high fiber snack. Avoid calcium tabs and dairy products as these may bind up the Zinc Mag combo.
With your weight training don’t overtrain. Your body type will initially do well with very light high rep work outs performed every 3 or 4 days. Do one day of burst aerobics each week in which you bring your heart rate very high for 1 minute, walk slow for 2 minutes and repeat for a total of 9 minutes. So some light walking everyday of the week to keep things flowing.
By the way, since your likely deficient in essential minerals your also most likely low in a host of Vitamins and minerals. I appreciate your Atkins style of eating but for gosh sakes eat a hell of a lot of fresh vegies (brocolli etc.)
whole wheats and supplement with Udo’s Choice oil. You need plenty of fat intake to encourage T production.
You should also be supplementing with pregenolone (the mother of all hormones). Don’t forget your super Bs, Cs, multivitamins etc. It is best to crush all vitamins and minerals and eat half does twice a day.
Put all that together for 6 weeks and you should be hitting on all cylinders. I would definitely postpone your endo visit until you try this more natural approach.
Drawing from Bert’s post, “free T” is considered a more reliable indicator of T issues than total serum T. (Also, when giving blood results, be sure to include the reference ranges. Different labs have different tests. The numbers are meaningless unless the ranges are also posted. The ranges should be printed on your lab report.) Yes, try “M” before other protocols. It’s had some favorable posts from people our age. Bill Roberts generally suggests Clomid after that, then HcG, and actual test injections as a last resort. By the way, if you really are morbidly obese, you can get away with a stricter diet without losing as much muscle as smaller folks, according to a study that Berardi quoted. It’s in his “Appetite for Construction,” issue 167, in the last section of the article. It’s great reading for someone in your situation. Also, if you go to the steroid section of the forum and do a search on “T Replacement” or “HRT,” you’ll find more information. Congrats to you on your resolve to get in shape. We’re pulling for you.
Thanks for all the advice. I’ll try to start incorporating it. I’ve been researching the HPT Axis and trying to understand all the factors involved. There’s lots of good stuff here at T-Mag. Does anybody ever read the footnotes and references? There’s a paper cited called “The Hypogonadal-Obesity Cycle” by PG Cohn that sounds like it’s exactly what I need to look at. I’m trying to find a copy now.
BTW, the reference ranges on the lab tests were a minimum T of 241 and maximum E at 130 before being out of range.
I think I will go to the endocrinologist rather than experimenting myself. After all, he/she knows this stuff better than I, but I'll be armed with a load of references. Hopefully, the endo will be as cooperative as my GP. Besides, Quest Labs insists on a doctor's order for all tests, so I can't get them by myself. At least my insurance will pay.
As an interesting aside, I thought long and hard about when I started to really become obese, and it just happens to coincide with the same time frame that soft drinks moved from glass bottles to plastic. Xenoestrogens anybody? Probably just coincidence.
Hey, maybe if I accomplish something I can finagle a leather jacket out of T-Mag.