[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Thanks for the insight! Leg day Wednesday![/quote]
No prob. Be sure to come back and let us know what you thought of them!
[quote]JR249 wrote:
Did you try box squats? I had the same issue, and I finally was able to live with box squats. I can sit further back and it absolutely forces me to pause at the bottom, which are two areas I always struggled with when doing traditional squats. Give it a try before throwing in the towel.[/quote]
Tried it before. Might have to give it a shot again!
However, if Leg Ext./Leg curls, Leg Presses, Mr. Smith squat/hacks and DB Bulgarian splits can give me good results for quad growth, I’m not sure about the Box Squats - which might still piss off my lower back. Not trying to avoid the basics - on the contrary! Wish I could do them and run a true Meadows routine. Boo-f****ing-hoo 
[quote] Powerpuff wrote:
FWIW, I like partial, no lockout hack squats a lot too. Those did more to build my quads than anything else, and I can really feel them with just the 25’s on the sled.[/quote]
Cool to know. I hope the Smith hack version won’t be another ticket to Sprainville.
[quote]Barguist wrote:
Cool to know. I hope the Smith hack version won’t be another ticket to Sprainville. [/quote]
I’m a bit more apprehensive about it being a ticket to “Broken Tailbone-ville”
This thread is awe-inspiring! I’m only about halfway through at the moment but had to sign up to ask a question…
ED - what are you thoughts on fruit during your fat phase? I read that fructose is poor at producing an insulin response and is therefore a poor choice as a post workout carb.
Does that mean it would be OK during fat phase or on non-lifting or does it still illicit too much of a spike?
Thanks and great work and great thread. So much useful info here.
Back to reading…
It’s not about the smith machine itself–it’s about the foot placement.
I tried it today at the end of my leg session. Just had 135 on and did three sets, just trying to get a feel for it for later use.
It felt a bit unstable. I made sure to have shoes that had great floor grip. Issue was that because of foot positioning, I felt like I was pressing “out” a bit and that I was pressing from my heels. Which the heel push is probably how it’s supposed to go, but it seems like the way I am pushing also exerts a horizontal force on the heel that could lead to “kicking my feet out.”
Did you have that feeling early on, EyeDentist? If so, were there adjustments you made? Maybe need to move my feet in closer.
[quote]Dradis wrote:
This thread is awe-inspiring! I’m only about halfway through at the moment but had to sign up to ask a question…
ED - what are you thoughts on fruit during your fat phase? I read that fructose is poor at producing an insulin response and is therefore a poor choice as a post workout carb.
Does that mean it would be OK during fat phase or on non-lifting or does it still illicit too much of a spike?
Thanks and great work and great thread. So much useful info here.
Back to reading…[/quote]
Hi Dradis, thanks for taking the time to read and comment. Glad to hear you’re enjoying the thread.
Re fruit: That’s an interesting question. You’re correct that fructose doesn’t elicit much of an insulin response, and hence it’s not an ideal post-workout carb. But TBH, I’ve never considered the flip side, ie, whether fruit’s low insulinogenicity renders it ‘safe’ to eat during the Fat portion of the day. I’ve never tried it myself, so have no personal experience to draw on. My gut (if you’ll pardon the expression) tells me it wouldn’t work to have bananas-and-PB all morning (although that sounds great!), but I’m going to have to think about/read up on it before I can give you a more rational response. (If someone else has insight into this, by all means add it.)
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
It’s not about the smith machine itself–it’s about the foot placement.
I tried it today at the end of my leg session. Just had 135 on and did three sets, just trying to get a feel for it for later use.
It felt a bit unstable. I made sure to have shoes that had great floor grip. Issue was that because of foot positioning, I felt like I was pressing “out” a bit and that I was pressing from my heels. Which the heel push is probably how it’s supposed to go, but it seems like the way I am pushing also exerts a horizontal force on the heel that could lead to “kicking my feet out.”
Did you have that feeling early on, EyeDentist? If so, were there adjustments you made? Maybe need to move my feet in closer. [/quote]
How far apart were your feet? Mine are almost touching each other (the same goes for my knees).
Mine were essentially what I’d do for a narrow-stance squat. So I would probably benefit from bringing them closer.
Sorry to belabor what is probably for others a totally trivial thing, but how far out would you say your feet are from the smith machine’s barbell? I think that may be where I have the most work to do on bringing it to a stable feeling on that end.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Mine were essentially what I’d do for a narrow-stance squat. So I would probably benefit from bringing them closer.
Sorry to belabor what is probably for others a totally trivial thing, but how far out would you say your feet are from the smith machine’s barbell? I think that may be where I have the most work to do on bringing it to a stable feeling on that end.[/quote]
Wish I had read this earlier…I did Legs again today, and would have been happy to measure the distance. The next time I go to the gym, I’ll try to remember to measure it.
Dear EyeDentist
I’m very much enjoying your thread thank you for sharing your experiences.
I have a few questions if you please:
I’m relatively lean (maybe 12% bf - 2 rows visible abs) 38 years old. I’m planning on dropping 5-10 lbs by using your fat loss diet strategy (fats during the day, protein carbs para and post workout)
-
I train Muay Thai 4-5 hours a week in the PM at around 4-5.pm (I live in Bangkok and fight now and again) Some pretty intense bag and technique work as well as full on sparring - I’m assuming carbs and BCAA/casein hydro when weights would be OK during these sessions, with an amount of carbs after? (But not as much as when weight training/conditioning which I do 2-3 times per week.
-
Would it work to do said fat loss protocol during the week and eat more ‘normally’ on the weekends? - still clean foods, protein/fats/veggies, with starches timed appropriately around training, weight or Muay Thai?
-
Would a cross trainer be OK for fasted cardio (I have one gathering dust bought by my fiance in my home gym) or would a brisk walk or alternating a walk/slow jog be better? Also would one sip a small amount of BCAA during?
Thanks in advance, love your work
Moog
[quote]moogweasel wrote:
Dear EyeDentist
I’m very much enjoying your thread thank you for sharing your experiences.
I have a few questions if you please:
Moog[/quote]
Hi Moog, thanks for jumping in. Before I answer, can you describe you regimen in a little more detail? That is, if you follow a day-of-the-week schedule, tell me what you do Monday, Tuesday, etc; if you follow a split (eg, 3 on/1 off), lay that out for me. Please be sure to include everything–weight training of course (including a brief description of your workouts–full-body vs bodypart split, etc), but also the martial arts, conditioning, etc.
Hey EyDentist
Thank you for your prompt and positive response.
My current regime is.
Monday 5.am - 20-25 minutes conditioning (usually a press of some sort 3-5 reps and 32kg KB swings alternated 10,20,30,40 reps then back down) then 20 minutes light technique on light bag
Monday 4.pm - 60-90 mins Muay Thai with my training partner. Always start sessions with 3 x 5 mins skipping and 2 x 5 mins shadow boxing . Then 10 x 5 mins technical work and light sparring.
Tuesday 5.am 20-25 mins trap bar carries (1min on 1 min rest/abs)
8 rounds. 20 mins light bag work
4.pm same as Monday
Wed 5.am - 45 mins technical and bag work + abs
4.pm - bb complexes (this is a typical type of session - heavy + light)
Ramped up to 3 working rounds:
Deadlift x 3 - 2.15lbs
Power cleans x 3 - 1.35lbs
Front squat x 3 - 1.35
Then
Clean snatch x 3
Push press x 5
Back squat x 10
Row x 8
Front squat x 3
Rom dead x 10
3 rounds with 90lbs
Thurs 5.am
Same as Monday
4.pm - 60-90 heavy bag and moderate sparring
Friday 5.am - carries of some kind again and light bag
4.pm snatch pulls and carries + should growth factor stuff - aka CT
30 mins light bag
Sat - Usually ‘smack the shit outta each other’ for 5 x 5 rounds
Sometimes if I have childcare on weekends (I have a 17 month old and unfortunately just lost my wife to cancer - hence all the training as stress relief) I do a strongman type season in the AM - carries, rope pulls, sled drags etc, then Muay Thai in the evening
I have an solid home gym so work out at home, apart from MT sessions with my partner which are at local MT gym. I use a solid para workout protocol similar to yours and have my carbs after. Veggies, meat and fat during the day - carbs at night
Thanks buddy ;0)
[quote]moogweasel wrote:
Hey EyDentist
Thank you for your prompt and positive response.
My current regime is.
Monday 5.am - 20-25 minutes conditioning (usually a press of some sort 3-5 reps and 32kg KB swings alternated 10,20,30,40 reps then back down) then 20 minutes light technique on light bag
Monday 4.pm - 60-90 mins Muay Thai with my training partner. Always start sessions with 3 x 5 mins skipping and 2 x 5 mins shadow boxing . Then 10 x 5 mins technical work and light sparring.
Tuesday 5.am 20-25 mins trap bar carries (1min on 1 min rest/abs)
8 rounds. 20 mins light bag work
4.pm same as Monday
Wed 5.am - 45 mins technical and bag work + abs
4.pm - bb complexes (this is a typical type of session - heavy + light)
Ramped up to 3 working rounds:
Deadlift x 3 - 2.15lbs
Power cleans x 3 - 1.35lbs
Front squat x 3 - 1.35
Then
Clean snatch x 3
Push press x 5
Back squat x 10
Row x 8
Front squat x 3
Rom dead x 10
3 rounds with 90lbs
Thurs 5.am
Same as Monday
4.pm - 60-90 heavy bag and moderate sparring
Friday 5.am - carries of some kind again and light bag
4.pm snatch pulls and carries + should growth factor stuff - aka CT
30 mins light bag
Sat - Usually ‘smack the shit outta each other’ for 5 x 5 rounds
Sometimes if I have childcare on weekends (I have a 17 month old and unfortunately just lost my wife to cancer - hence all the training as stress relief) I do a strongman type season in the AM - carries, rope pulls, sled drags etc, then Muay Thai in the evening
I have an solid home gym so work out at home, apart from MT sessions with my partner which are at local MT gym. I use a solid para workout protocol similar to yours and have my carbs after. Veggies, meat and fat during the day - carbs at night
Thanks buddy ;0)[/quote]
First off, sincerest condolences regarding your wife. I can’t even imagine.
There’s no graceful way to segue from something so profound to something so (relatively) trivial as training, I won’t even try.
To sum up your program, from a training perspective it boils down to:
Monday AM: Hard conditioning
Monday PM: Light conditioning
Tuesday AM: Hard conditioning
Tuesday PM: Light conditioning
Wednesday AM: Moderate conditioning
Wednesday PM: Hard conditioning
Thursday AM: Hard conditioning
Thursday PM: Medium conditioning
Friday AM: Moderate conditioning
Friday PM: Moderate conditioning, + TUT delt training
Saturday (single session): Hard conditioning
Sunday: Off
My first question is, as hard as you train, why do you have any BF at all? What’s your diet like now? You imply it’s pretty clean–is it?
Hi again
Apologies for the delayed response - had some dodgy Mexican food over the weekend, not been well at all.
In answer to your question
- I’ve got my BF down from about 15% top where I am now over the last 8 weeks or so. It’s at the bf level where I used to stay around before my training and diet pretty much went out the window due to life stresses etc. I’m sorta at the point now where I usually struggle to get any lower - lowering cals etc (given your point of how much training I’m doing, upping volume doesn’t seem wise)
Diet is pretty clean, so I’ve decided to take a step back and reduce volume of training for a week or so and see how I feel. Layoff due to recent stomach problems being something of a catalyst. I’m likely to run myself into the ground if I don’t take a step back at some point. One step backwards to steps forwards maybe.
I’ll write a little more soon - on a break at work (I’m a Special Ed Teacher in an International School)
Thanks for your input
M
Hi again
Here is my current diet:
Breakfast after session at around 7.am (BCAA pre + sometimes some cyclic dextrin - 10-10g, depending on the type of session)
Was - 20g protein blend + BBQ pork (off stress seller)
As of last week - 1 boiled omega egg, tin of sardines in olive oil. 1 slice of cheese. 2 tbs apple cider vinegar + fiber supplement
Lunch - 12.pm tin of mackeral in tomato sauce, 2 omega eggs. Salad/veg - 3 fish oil caps and cider vinegar.
Training 4/5.pm - If Muay Thai - pre - BCAA (Extend) and cyclic dextrin 10 - 20g
If weights - pre 12g Casien hydro, 3g leucine, 20-30g c dextrin
during BCAA + 20-30g c dextrin
Dinner . Usually chicken/fish, white rice and vegetables
Pre bed (if I remember) apple cider vinegar
Was drinking a few light beers (2-4) in the week but have stopped - will only have alcohol on Saturday evening, in moderation. One meal per week where I eat what I fancy (usually Sat night with beers or wine)
Moog ;0)
[quote]moogweasel wrote:
Hi again
Here is my current diet:
Breakfast after session at around 7.am (BCAA pre + sometimes some cyclic dextrin - 10-10g, depending on the type of session)
Was - 20g protein blend + BBQ pork (off stress seller)
As of last week - 1 boiled omega egg, tin of sardines in olive oil. 1 slice of cheese. 2 tbs apple cider vinegar + fiber supplement
Lunch - 12.pm tin of mackeral in tomato sauce, 2 omega eggs. Salad/veg - 3 fish oil caps and cider vinegar.
Training 4/5.pm - If Muay Thai - pre - BCAA (Extend) and cyclic dextrin 10 - 20g
If weights - pre 12g Casien hydro, 3g leucine, 20-30g c dextrin
during BCAA + 20-30g c dextrin
Dinner . Usually chicken/fish, white rice and vegetables
Pre bed (if I remember) apple cider vinegar
Was drinking a few light beers (2-4) in the week but have stopped - will only have alcohol on Saturday evening, in moderation. One meal per week where I eat what I fancy (usually Sat night with beers or wine)
Moog ;0)[/quote]
Two things:
-
That sure doesn’t sound like much food! Not counting your cheat meal, do you have an estimate of your daily cals and macros?
-
You said you were contemplating running the intermittent fatting approach that I’ve talked about. How do you envision setting it up? Specifically, how would you mesh it with your training schedule?
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Mine were essentially what I’d do for a narrow-stance squat. So I would probably benefit from bringing them closer.
Sorry to belabor what is probably for others a totally trivial thing, but how far out would you say your feet are from the smith machine’s barbell? I think that may be where I have the most work to do on bringing it to a stable feeling on that end.[/quote]
MinusTC, I did Legs again the other day, and took note of where I put my feet. The heels of my shoes touch a line just short of 1.5 shoe-lengths in front of where the Smith bar would touch the floor. Have you tried the Smith hacks again?
[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Mine were essentially what I’d do for a narrow-stance squat. So I would probably benefit from bringing them closer.
Sorry to belabor what is probably for others a totally trivial thing, but how far out would you say your feet are from the smith machine’s barbell? I think that may be where I have the most work to do on bringing it to a stable feeling on that end.[/quote]
MinusTC, I did Legs again the other day, and took note of where I put my feet. The heels of my shoes touch a line just short of 1.5 shoe-lengths in front of where the Smith bar would touch the floor. Have you tried the Smith hacks again?[/quote]
Meant to follow up on this. Yes, have continued to try to incorporate. Was using 185 for three sets of ten yesterday.
Ended up having feet probably six inches or so apart, feet about, as you say, 1.5 shoe lengths or so out.
What types of set/rep protocol do you use? I’m doing the 3x10 just as I get used to the movement and find what works. Might end up doing something like a 3x15.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Mine were essentially what I’d do for a narrow-stance squat. So I would probably benefit from bringing them closer.
Sorry to belabor what is probably for others a totally trivial thing, but how far out would you say your feet are from the smith machine’s barbell? I think that may be where I have the most work to do on bringing it to a stable feeling on that end.[/quote]
MinusTC, I did Legs again the other day, and took note of where I put my feet. The heels of my shoes touch a line just short of 1.5 shoe-lengths in front of where the Smith bar would touch the floor. Have you tried the Smith hacks again?[/quote]
Meant to follow up on this. Yes, have continued to try to incorporate. Was using 185 for three sets of ten yesterday.
Ended up having feet probably six inches or so apart, feet about, as you say, 1.5 shoe lengths or so out.
What types of set/rep protocol do you use? I’m doing the 3x10 just as I get used to the movement and find what works. Might end up doing something like a 3x15.[/quote]
Like you, I’m still exploring, trying to figure out the optimal combo of exercises, sets and reps. The Smith portion of my last workout consisted of the following (done after the Core, Stepmill, and extensions/leg curls work I mentioned in an earlier post):
- Three supersets of: BW sissy squats x 10/Smith hacks x 10/Smith narrow-stance squats x 10 (ie, after the sissy squats, I did 10 reps hack-style, then without re-racking the bar I moved my feet to directly below me and did 10 more reps)
- Three supersets of: Smith hacks x 10/Smith narrow-stance squats x 10. Used a little more weight than was used on the first superset.
- Four ‘straight’ sets of Smith narrow-stance squats:
–135x20
–155x15
–185x10
–135x20
Everything was done non-lock style–I barely went halfway up on either the hack-style or the narrow-stance squats. I rested 60-90 seconds between sets.
Hi ED
Thanks again for your continual input and support.
I’ve worked my cals out
170g Protein - 680 cals
150g carbs - 600 cals
100g fat - 900 cals
2180 cals
Yep, cals to low given the level of activity
I’m going to add in 2 higher carbs days (one on the same day as a cheat), taking cals up to around 2500 - 3000 on these days.
I’ll put the IF on hold for now and see how my body reacts to the introduction of higher cal days. I’ve had an easier week this week - better sleep, no AM sessions. Feel better in myself as well as physically.
I’ll update on progress in a few weeks
Thanks
M