Extending My Tren+Test Cycle to Test Only

Pharma / TRT
1

Hi, I just finished a 16 week cycle. It was supposed to only be 8 weeks of (eod) Tren acetate 100, masteron 100 & low dose of test prop 50. This killed my appetite & made me lean. But I wanted some mass so for another 8 weeks I did test prop only for 100 g eod and I gained some muscle as my appetite started to go back to normal while also staying lean. What do you guys think of this? Was this a stupid move? Lol

I’m a mesomorph and this is the leanest I’ve ever been. I was very happy with the leanness but I felt small. I want to look like those fitness models who are lean and BIG at the same time lol. After doing this 8 week of tren+ 8 week of test only, I’m thinking for my next cycle I’ll do Tren again but with 100g of test instead of low dose. What do you think? Has anyone ever done high tren+high test. I’m aware there may be more side effects, but do you think I’m more likely to get leaner and at the same time get more muscles if I do high tren+high test?

Thanks in advance!

2

yes

gaining size and losing fat at the same time is not possible unless you are undertrained, but then you are an idiot to use steroids in the first place… no one who has years of lifting under his belt, will be able to gain size and lose fat at the same time on no matter what drugs…
muscle gain = caloric surplus
fat loss = caloric deficit
Those two are as different as fire and water.

3

Actually it is possible, and there is clinical data to back this.

Particularly on steroids… Can even theoretically gain mass in a deficit.

A highly trained individual would be able to do it IF, and this is a huge IF… They’ve never used steroids before and decide to hop on. Otherwise as a highly trained, peak natty it’d be nearly impossible

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yeah me too. 220lbs 10% bodyfat.

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please help me understand a concept.

A fat new trainee can gain muscle and lose fat in a deficit. The energy from the fat can be used to build muscle?

Why can’t an advanced fat trainee do the same thing? build muscle in deficit using the energy from his excess bodyfat.

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post a pic. can’t suggest anything to you without an idea of the base your building from.

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as i said - it works on beginners… no one who has trained for a few years and/or has done a few cycles wont be able to do it…

because - diminished returns… the longer you go the harder it gets… a newbie can put on 10lbs with pushups and jumping jacks because its all so new to him… every new movement stimulates growth…
take this as a comparison - imagine no one ever, you including, would have never touched your dick… you would cum in 5 seconds when finally someone does… now men at 40, who have good sex life, probably cant finish via handjob no matter what…

when something is new, it works good at start.
you gain 80% of your lifetime natty muscle in the first year if everything is done right.

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I’m going to say you are wrong. Sorry expert.

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I’m calling BS on this one. I have been recomping for about a year now. I have been lifting since I was 16. Sure there may have been 2 or 3 3 months lapses in 16 years, but I seriously started strongman back in March 2019. March 2020 to May 2020 I dropped from 265 to 241. Since then I have slowly gone up to 246, all the while getting leaner and larger at the same time.

I even have progress pics to prove it in my Test C, NPP and anavar thread. This chronicled my cycle from June to October of last year. If you look at the photos you can see the difference

EDIT: here are the posts. First post shows may 2020 @ 241 lbs vs aug 2020 @ 247 lbs and second post (ignore the left photo) the right photo is Sep 2020 @ 246 lbs

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i see good progress on both but i dont see why you think those two processes worked at the same time… you got leaner once and then gained size…
you are bigger in second post but not really leaner, as far as i can tell… you might be AS LEAN, but not leaner… as - you slowly built size, but not like you are LEANER ar 262 than you are in first link. Mid section is noticably bigger.

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You are losing all credibility. From January to April I gained muscle while losing fat.

This is like when you said a lifting belt is a crutch.

And being on cycle for years raises a red flag about your sanity.

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Never knew i had any. I just talk on this forum and try to learn.

I have my reasons to partly believe in that, even tho many people have changed my mind a bit, there is a part of me that still kinda has some ideological issues with that. I dont see anything trully bad about people thinking differently about stuff. I actually recently heard a podcast with Dave Tate saying that they mostly trained beltless in Westside and would give each other shit if someone used a belt in training. Idk, its not THAT important of a topic in my life, im sorry if something i said offended your ideology.

There are much more things in my life that raises these flags on much higher level than some cycle stuff ever could, its not a secret, my GF would just say “no shit” to you now :smiley:

Anyways, you seem a bit agressive towards me after i posted my beliefs in this topic and i dont understand why, cuz if you disagree and you have done it better than me, all the power to you and you win, right? so why is me not being able to be as good as you make you angry? :slight_smile:

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I’ve gained 10lbs in the past few months by increasing caloric intake tremendously to compensate for more cardio.

Thought I’d lean out due to increased energy expenditure, this has backfired. Doesn’t matter, I can keep going. The weight gain should stall soon, there’s no way I’ll be reaching say… 190lbs at 5’5-5’6 at the end of the year. As a matter of fact I never want to hit that weight. Doing so, even if relatively lean would be highly problematic for me as I wouldn’t be comfortable being that heavy. Clocked in at 176 today for reference. My heaviest ever was like a bloated 178 as opposed to a relatively lean 176 now (probably 15-17%bf). Lightest in the past two years was 150 following injury/cardio craze followed with a steep caloric deficit.

On 125mg test/wk, at a certain point I worry excess size is going to require excessive oxygen demand during sparring/generalised athletic endeavours that aren’t weightlifting. I’m one of the strongest, if not the strongest in my college gym. But that doesn’t seem to help for combat sports as much as agility, footwork and technique does.

It’s an interesting paradigm. I have small bone structure, wrists measure six inches around but I also have fairly broad shoulders and a somewhat large neck (will measure tomorrow, but it’s large enough to single handedly make me throw out shirts on the basis of neck size alone), these traits were absent on me prior to TRT aside from the broad structure/shape of my body. The combination makes me look odd in shirts at times. Need to find very specifically tailored clothes to suit my body type.

I have an extra 20lbs on myself since the last time I’ve posted a pic on social media/on here/anywhere. Extra 6-7 lbs in the last month alone… Put on a lot of weight quickly when I switched from prolonged deficit to caloric surplus.

I eat so much it’s screwing with my budget. Easily more than that of my brother and father combined, both of whom weigh around 135-140. @brickhead, any tips for eating a ton out of necessity but being too broke to buy avocados? I went to the store to buy passionfruit the other day. If you haven’t tried good passionfruit it’s a MUST! But it was two dollars PER passionfruit! Can you believe that? I’ll easily go through three just during my breakfast, not a chance I’m paying those exorbitant prices. I don’t even pay for eggs anymore, I come home on the weekend and take eggs our chickens lay back to my dorm lol. This year I’ve become a stingy waffle with money, saving up = the ability to make worthwhile investments down the line.

Combat sports training 6-7x/wk + weights 4-5x/wk + cardio for fun every now and then = need for food and tons of it. Should be noted throughout this I haven’t gained much in the way of fat mass. If anything BF% appears to have remained relatively stagnant, perhaps I’ve put on 1% or so.

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I’d prefer not to come across as aggressive towards you. Please forgive me.

My issue is that people will listen and respect You because of how You look. Your body says I know what I’m talking about. You mentioned you coach/train people, so you are passing your knowledge on. However, your comments are definitive. It’s not like you are inviting debate. You are speaking as this is right, period. On the body recomp, I know from personal experience that a person definitely can burn fat while building muscle. And I know others who have done the same. When presented with contradictory info, you argued @wsmwannabe .

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You were on Test C, Nandrolone and Anavar for 4 months??

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Question:

  1. what could the benefit of doing high tren + high test could be, as opposed to what I did: high tren + low test?

  2. Been lifting for more than a decade now but in terms of cycles, before this one, I had been playing safe for the last few years and would only do test only. What do you suggest? A series of cutting cycles then bulking, or one bulking cycle followed by a cutting cycle then back to bulking and so on? Tbh I’ve always been that “recomp” guy whether on cycle or not and I want to change that if I have to.

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I have always said that i dont know everything and all i can help and teach is what i do. My profession is a military hand to hand combat instructor but i also work in a gym because some people i trained just WANTED me to help them. And i always said - i am not a fitness trainer, i can only show you what I DO in the gym and/or what i believe in. I dont teach exercises i dont do, and i dont talk about diets that i havent done. So for weight loss i only teach IF as that is the only thing that worked for me, and if someone doesnt like that they should just get a different person to help them.

That is not my goal. You have to understand that english is my third language. My first one is latvian, my second one is russian and i only use english for watching movies and this forum. So there might be some barrier or something that makes me “sound” differently than i am expressing myself as i dont really use english anywhere else much. In my head, i hear myself as unsure and only speaking out of my own limited experiece, so its weird for me that you see that as “definitive”. The only thing thats definitive is the fact that everything i say i have done or i have tried and if i say something sucks it means it did suck for me. But then again - we all speak out of experience because we just cant know about everything and everyone.

i didnt argue, i just explained what i think happened… on these long timetables when someone just becomes big and lean its very hard to know - how many months did the person gain and how many months did he lose fat…
As a bachelor in biology(never worked in the field tho) i understood that in living organisms nothing ever stays the same. You either grow or you shrink, you either build muscle or you lose it, you either get fat or you lose some. And this happens every second.
When we talk about people who got heavier, stronger AND leaner, my problem with statement of “i gained muscle and lost fat” is that if you gain more muscle than fat, and do that well enough, your bodyfat % becomes lower even tho you did not burn fat.
Math might not be correct but for example - 220lbs at 10% bodyfat gained 20lbs of muscle and 1lb of fat. So technically, he now is 241lbs at below 10% bodyfat.
We will say he built muscle and lost fat, even tho - no he didnt. He bulked clean, he gained muscle, he gained fat, but cuz he gained more muscle that fat, his bodyfat dropped not because there is less fat but because there is less PERCENTAGE of fat.
This is what happens most of the times… Or a person just bulks and cuts here and there for “mini cycles” over the year and presents it as “built muscle and lost fat”.

What im saying is - i believe that once you are big enough and have done a cycle here or there, you cant really ACTUALLY build muscle and burn fat. You can build muscle and reduce bodyfat %, but not actually build one type of tissue and burn another. I might not be right, but that is what i believe, because if that would be doable no powerlifters would ever become that fat, nor would pro bodybuilders bulk so much. In my life i have never seen an actual bodybuilder present his results at gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. That is what we all want. Why do they stupid Olympia competitors dont do that then?

As far as Greg Doucette goes - i love the guy and i am a fan, but lots of his stuff as been discredited many times, and as far as his “maingaining” goes i just want you to keep in mind that he build all his muscle while bulking and cutting on shitloads of drugs, and nowdays when he talks about this “maingaining” he actually hasnt been gaining shit. I know he is now on TRT so we cant expect him to be huge, but it is a fact that the things he preaches now, he hasnt actually done himself, and that also is a reason why Chris Bumstead swaped him as a coach. There was this big drama about him and CBums new coach and all that bulking shit.

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honestly, i have done high test and high tren, and high test and low tren… i havent done high tren and low test, but as far as i have read or listened about, is that if test is higher, you get less tren sides… like all the tren dick problems etc are fixed because test is high enough to not let that happen… test is not only the best steroid, but its also the most natural to us - males… it is already in our body, so we are already used to side effects of test.
Not exactly the same topic but this guy kind of also talks about keeping test high for blasts :

You can do both on test only, btw… Either you bulk or cut, its a diet thing, not a drug thing. I believe that “test is best” and you can do everything on just test.

As far as bulking and cutting goes, i am a believer of big changes. When i cut i starve myself to death because i want results yesterday. My physique and cutting reslts have been posted on this forum multiple times, i dont think there are many people who have been cutting with better results than me on here.
And i also believe that if you want to gain some size, you will have to gain fat. Not get fat, but some fat is helpful.
If you gain a bit fat, it is a 100% guarantee that you eat enough for all your work in the gym and drugs build muscle. If you dont gain fat it might mean that :
1)You are on that perfect fine line to build muscle and not any fat(1% chance)
2)You are not eating enough so you are making less than optimal gains.
I like how JM Blakely speaks about this - you can look up his podcasts on elitefts. I agree with him that to lose fat you just have to eat less and move a bit more. But building actual muscle is friggin hard. And it is a good trade to build 2lbs of muscle and gain 1lbs of fat.
Building muscle takes so much time, money and work, that i wouldnt want to be doing that already slow process on 80% efficiency cuz i dont get enough calories because im afraid to lose my abs for a while.

Its just my opinion - but i would always suggest just building mass, and then cutting. Build mass for 9 months, then cut for 3.
Every time you cut, you also lose some muscle, so building and cutting equal amounts of time might mean you also lose half of the muscle you gained.
Dont get fat, but you will have to get fatER. JM Blakely speaks about it. Seth Feroce also speaks about it.

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@hankthetank89 You said you’ve done High test + High Tren. Were you cutting or bulking then? And how’s that better than the more recommended Low test + High Tren?

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At that time i was mostly cutting because of my lifestyle. I was a fighter for a few years and also working as a hand to hand combat instructor. I burned up to 9000kcals a day and i ate 1-2 meals a day(Intermittent Fasting) and just…was very very lean.
I have to mention that i was on high test and tren for years on end tho. Never had any sides, so never really felt the need to stop, and i also grew and emotional addiction to “not change anything because i dont want my abilities and looks to change”. I kind of tought that if i stop it, i will look or perform different, which is not true, cuz i actually did most of the cutting on test alone. Sadly, that mega-blast was so long ago i cant even tell how much of a difference tren gave me that time.
What i can say is that i quit it a while back, and i havent really felt much worse. I am fatter tho but thats cuz of 10 months of massive bulking, so again - i cant tell…

As far as “low test vs high test” - i did answer that in my previous post.