[quote]PKS wrote:
Coach, 2 questions:
1)OVERHEAD PRESSING FROM PINS: Is having the bar deadstart from chin/lower mouth postion ok? I am a taller lifter @ 6’2’ with long arms. Also, should they be done in a strict, no leg drive style?
2)45degree INC BBELL PRESS FROM PINS: What do you suggest as far as bar positioning/setup from the deadstart.
Cheers
[/quote]
Start a new thread please, this is a thread on high pulls.
Ooops sorry guys!
[quote]PKS wrote:
Ooops sorry guys![/quote]
Not a problem… just got the forum back up and running it will take some getting used to.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]jppage wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]ddelmast wrote:
Thanks CT.
Two questions:
When setting up on blocks where should the barbell be in terms of height in relationship to your body at the starting position?
I just for the first time did the high pulls from blocks and was weaker then from when I do them from the hang. Is this normal? Or is it just a matter of becoming proficient from the blocks?[/quote]
mid-thigh
it’s quite common… from the hang you have a pre-stretch of the muscles… if you do a vertical jump from a static start you will not jump up as high as if you can dip down.
But with the blocks you can better take a good position, so some people can get even stronger off of blocks[/quote]
CT im the same way good hip punch and speed form the hang,but weak off blocks.Is this something that I should work on.Ive been doing the layers form the hang,re-setting on blocks for clusters of course but if its better to be good off blocks then ill focus on that.[/quote]
As a rule of thumb, if you want to improve you have to attack your weakness… if you are weaker off blocks, start the ramp on blocks. When you hit your max, tried to continue ramping using lift from the hang. And do the clusters from hang but the HDL from blocks.
[/quote]
Perfect thanks ct and i just wanted to say that with indigo,plazma,and your layering system im seeing gains of a newbie.Its the most fun i`ve had training in quite some time,and the goal of losing my neck is paying off with the focus on the high pulls haha.Once again thanks for everything.
CT, I have 2 questions.
First what is the difference in what areas will get developed between a snatch grip high pull vs a clean grip high pull. I have narrow shoulders and because of this my traps respond and grow easy. I really want to focus on thickness across my upper back and rear delts and not too much on my traps.
Second, I’m not very strong on my ramp to max, I barely get bodyweight(195lbs) but 2nd layer when I do singles 10 sec apart and my HDL layer is fairly high percentage wise compared to the max ramp. Actually this is also the case with my pressing. I’m not a very strong individual by nature so Im thinking this is why my max ramps are low. Is this normal? Do I have poor explosiveness? Should I not be concerned with max ramp amount since it’s only to prep me for the other layers?
By the way thanks for all your advice here on Tnation. Your advice has changed the way I train over the years more than any other factor. In a positive way.
[quote]jppage wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]jppage wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]ddelmast wrote:
Thanks CT.
Two questions:
When setting up on blocks where should the barbell be in terms of height in relationship to your body at the starting position?
I just for the first time did the high pulls from blocks and was weaker then from when I do them from the hang. Is this normal? Or is it just a matter of becoming proficient from the blocks?[/quote]
mid-thigh
it’s quite common… from the hang you have a pre-stretch of the muscles… if you do a vertical jump from a static start you will not jump up as high as if you can dip down.
But with the blocks you can better take a good position, so some people can get even stronger off of blocks[/quote]
CT im the same way good hip punch and speed form the hang,but weak off blocks.Is this something that I should work on.Ive been doing the layers form the hang,re-setting on blocks for clusters of course but if its better to be good off blocks then ill focus on that.[/quote]
As a rule of thumb, if you want to improve you have to attack your weakness… if you are weaker off blocks, start the ramp on blocks. When you hit your max, tried to continue ramping using lift from the hang. And do the clusters from hang but the HDL from blocks.
[/quote]
Perfect thanks ct and i just wanted to say that with indigo,plazma,and your layering system im seeing gains of a newbie.Its the most fun i`ve had training in quite some time,and the goal of losing my neck is paying off with the focus on the high pulls haha.Once again thanks for everything.[/quote]
Funny you mention “newbie” gains… that’s how I described what the high pull gives you. See, very few people have trained truly explosively and even fewer train hard on the high pull. For that reason it DOES bring you newbie gains.
[quote]as wrote:
CT, I have 2 questions.
First what is the difference in what areas will get developed between a snatch grip high pull vs a clean grip high pull. I have narrow shoulders and because of this my traps respond and grow easy. I really want to focus on thickness across my upper back and rear delts and not too much on my traps.
Second, I’m not very strong on my ramp to max, I barely get bodyweight(195lbs) but 2nd layer when I do singles 10 sec apart and my HDL layer is fairly high percentage wise compared to the max ramp. Actually this is also the case with my pressing. I’m not a very strong individual by nature so Im thinking this is why my max ramps are low. Is this normal? Do I have poor explosiveness? Should I not be concerned with max ramp amount since it’s only to prep me for the other layers?
By the way thanks for all your advice here on Tnation. Your advice has changed the way I train over the years more than any other factor. In a positive way.[/quote]
I do not like the clean grip high pull… in my opinion it stresses (in a bad way) the shoulder joint and has the tendency of making you overuse your arms… and it doesn’t really have benefits over the snatch-grip high pull. Low pulls (or chinese pulls) with a clean grip is fine though and it might hit the traps a bit more than their snatch-pull variation.
You should not be concerned at all… the max ramp’s purpose is merely to get your starting weight for the subsequent layers. Then you adjust the weight of the 2nd and 3rd layer depending on your result of each set. For example, you start the clusters (2nd layer) with 90% of your ramp… the target rep number of 5 and anything between 3 and 6 is acceptable. If you can get more than 6 on a set, add some weight for the next set. If you can’t get 3 reps, take some weight off for the next set. Same for the 3rd layer… for high pull I prefer to use the max reps HDL (80%, max reps/15 sec rest/max reps) the number of reps in the first “leg/segment” of the set should be between 4 and 7… if you get more than 7 on the first portion of the set, finish your set then add weight for the next one. If you can’t get 4 reps in the first portion of the set, take some weight off for the next one.
Ok thanks Thibs.
Coach,
“For example, you start the clusters (2nd layer) with 90% of your ramp…”
Just to clarify, at what stage of the ramp do you base the 90% on? …3rep max (ie 75kgs), 2rep max (ie 82.5kgs or single rep max (ie 90kgs)?
[quote]PKS wrote:
Coach,
“For example, you start the clusters (2nd layer) with 90% of your ramp…”
Just to clarify, at what stage of the ramp do you base the 90% on? …3rep max (ie 75kgs), 2rep max (ie 82.5kgs or single rep max (ie 90kgs)?
[/quote]
You base it on the RM you select.
I often use this approach:
Week 1: Ramp to 3RM
Week 2: Ramp to 2RM
Week 3: Ramp to 1RM
Week 4: Ramp to 1RM
so the 90% is the 90% of the ramp done that week… but do not forget the adjustment. If you can get 6 cluster reps, add weight for the net set. If you can’t get 3 reps, decrease the weight for the next set.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]PKS wrote:
Coach,
“For example, you start the clusters (2nd layer) with 90% of your ramp…”
Just to clarify, at what stage of the ramp do you base the 90% on? …3rep max (ie 75kgs), 2rep max (ie 82.5kgs or single rep max (ie 90kgs)?
[/quote]
You base it on the RM you select.
I often use this approach:
Week 1: Ramp to 3RM
Week 2: Ramp to 2RM
Week 3: Ramp to 1RM
Week 4: Ramp to 1RM
so the 90% is the 90% of the ramp done that week… but do not forget the adjustment. If you can get 6 cluster reps, add weight for the net set. If you can’t get 3 reps, decrease the weight for the next set.[/quote]
Ok, cool, will do. Thanks coach. Looking forward to more programming gold like this being revealed when the ‘full’ layers program is released (hopefully) soon! 
Q: What about the dHDL layer? How would that work for me in week 1 if I was using a ‘lighter’ weight based on a 3rep max not 1rep max? Shoot for 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1 reps per sets instead of 5-4-3-2-1?
*BTW, I’m not using Max Reps HDL yet as I can’t quite SGHP my bodyweight (94kg) yet.
Is there a certain any sort of ratio/percentage that high pulls tend to fall into in comparison to squat/deadlift/bench/other? After looking at some of the logs, such as JMoose and Dave-G’s, it appears most people are benching more than they high pull, is this as it should be?
Benching didn’t come naturally to me, but nonetheless, My high pulls out weight any of my benching by a fair margin which leads me to believe that I’m pulling to hard/to soon with my arms. I also notice in the videos posted of people doing high pulls there is almost a second or so at the very top where the bar has a little ‘hang time’ which I don’t seem to achieve either.
Is this indicative of poor form on my own part? When attempting to get triple extension I struggle to hit the same weight and control then if I just use my hips.
Regards, KVB.
[quote]PKS wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]PKS wrote:
Coach,
“For example, you start the clusters (2nd layer) with 90% of your ramp…”
Just to clarify, at what stage of the ramp do you base the 90% on? …3rep max (ie 75kgs), 2rep max (ie 82.5kgs or single rep max (ie 90kgs)?
[/quote]
You base it on the RM you select.
I often use this approach:
Week 1: Ramp to 3RM
Week 2: Ramp to 2RM
Week 3: Ramp to 1RM
Week 4: Ramp to 1RM
so the 90% is the 90% of the ramp done that week… but do not forget the adjustment. If you can get 6 cluster reps, add weight for the net set. If you can’t get 3 reps, decrease the weight for the next set.[/quote]
Ok, cool, will do. Thanks coach. Looking forward to more programming gold like this being revealed when the ‘full’ layers program is released (hopefully) soon!
Q: What about the dHDL layer? How would that work for me in week 1 if I was using a ‘lighter’ weight based on a 3rep max not 1rep max? Shoot for 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1 reps per sets instead of 5-4-3-2-1?
*BTW, I’m not using Max Reps HDL yet as I can’t quite SGHP my bodyweight (94kg) yet.
[/quote]
With high pulls I found that I do not want met con (metabolic conditioning) to be the limiting factor (getting winded)… so if using the 4-4-3-3-2-2 approach I prefer to do it in the form of a series of micro sets with about 20-30 seconds between each and only do one or two of those. On high pulls you really need a lot less HDL work that I originally though. Too much of it actually decreases gains.
[quote]KvonBabbage wrote:
Is there a certain any sort of ratio/percentage that high pulls tend to fall into in comparison to squat/deadlift/bench/other? After looking at some of the logs, such as JMoose and Dave-G’s, it appears most people are benching more than they high pull, is this as it should be?
Benching didn’t come naturally to me, but nonetheless, My high pulls out weight any of my benching by a fair margin which leads me to believe that I’m pulling to hard/to soon with my arms. I also notice in the videos posted of people doing high pulls there is almost a second or so at the very top where the bar has a little ‘hang time’ which I don’t seem to achieve either.
Is this indicative of poor form on my own part? When attempting to get triple extension I struggle to hit the same weight and control then if I just use my hips.
Regards, KVB.
[/quote]
No it doesn’t indicate bad form on your part… really the only important thing with high pulls is to do a powerful explosive launch with the lower body to initiate the movement, focus on that.
There is zero correlation between a high pull and bench. And a weak correlation was best with deadlifting and squatting.
Related question on this:
I’ve been doing the 3RM for about 2 weeks now. I noticed when I did my first bout that my 3RM was about the weight I typically ended at with 1 or 2RM for clusters, so I used my 3RM max for cluster work.
I get any where from 4-6 reps on pressing and 6-8 reps on high pulls for the first cluster set.
Am I getting the proper stimulus, or should I drop the weight to 90% of my 3RM? My thought is that I’m going to get to that weight anyway…
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]PKS wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]PKS wrote:
Coach,
“For example, you start the clusters (2nd layer) with 90% of your ramp…”
Just to clarify, at what stage of the ramp do you base the 90% on? …3rep max (ie 75kgs), 2rep max (ie 82.5kgs or single rep max (ie 90kgs)?
[/quote]
You base it on the RM you select.
I often use this approach:
Week 1: Ramp to 3RM
Week 2: Ramp to 2RM
Week 3: Ramp to 1RM
Week 4: Ramp to 1RM
so the 90% is the 90% of the ramp done that week… but do not forget the adjustment. If you can get 6 cluster reps, add weight for the net set. If you can’t get 3 reps, decrease the weight for the next set.[/quote]
Ok, cool, will do. Thanks coach. Looking forward to more programming gold like this being revealed when the ‘full’ layers program is released (hopefully) soon!
Q: What about the dHDL layer? How would that work for me in week 1 if I was using a ‘lighter’ weight based on a 3rep max not 1rep max? Shoot for 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1 reps per sets instead of 5-4-3-2-1?
*BTW, I’m not using Max Reps HDL yet as I can’t quite SGHP my bodyweight (94kg) yet.
[/quote]
With high pulls I found that I do not want met con (metabolic conditioning) to be the limiting factor (getting winded)… so if using the 4-4-3-3-2-2 approach I prefer to do it in the form of a series of micro sets with about 20-30 seconds between each and only do one or two of those. On high pulls you really need a lot less HDL work that I originally though. Too much of it actually decreases gains. [/quote]
Thanks for that tip. Yeah that last set of dHDL using 5/4/3/2/1 does feel quite challenging metabolically…especially after the first 5 - then 4 - reps are completed! I gunna switch to your tweaked set and rest setup. Happy days!
Apologies, wrong thread I know, but hopefully it’s relevant…I think the last set of dHDL on Front Squats is absolutely brutal. That REALLY feels like met con is a limiting factor to muscular performance.
(I’ll post this as a question/comment in the relevant/new thread)
[quote]PKS wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]PKS wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]PKS wrote:
Coach,
“For example, you start the clusters (2nd layer) with 90% of your ramp…”
Just to clarify, at what stage of the ramp do you base the 90% on? …3rep max (ie 75kgs), 2rep max (ie 82.5kgs or single rep max (ie 90kgs)?
[/quote]
You base it on the RM you select.
I often use this approach:
Week 1: Ramp to 3RM
Week 2: Ramp to 2RM
Week 3: Ramp to 1RM
Week 4: Ramp to 1RM
so the 90% is the 90% of the ramp done that week… but do not forget the adjustment. If you can get 6 cluster reps, add weight for the net set. If you can’t get 3 reps, decrease the weight for the next set.[/quote]
Ok, cool, will do. Thanks coach. Looking forward to more programming gold like this being revealed when the ‘full’ layers program is released (hopefully) soon!
Q: What about the dHDL layer? How would that work for me in week 1 if I was using a ‘lighter’ weight based on a 3rep max not 1rep max? Shoot for 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1 reps per sets instead of 5-4-3-2-1?
*BTW, I’m not using Max Reps HDL yet as I can’t quite SGHP my bodyweight (94kg) yet.
[/quote]
With high pulls I found that I do not want met con (metabolic conditioning) to be the limiting factor (getting winded)… so if using the 4-4-3-3-2-2 approach I prefer to do it in the form of a series of micro sets with about 20-30 seconds between each and only do one or two of those. On high pulls you really need a lot less HDL work that I originally though. Too much of it actually decreases gains. [/quote]
Thanks for that tip. Yeah that last set of dHDL using 5/4/3/2/1 does feel quite challenging metabolically…especially after the first 5 - then 4 - reps are completed! I gunna switch to your tweaked set and rest setup. Happy days!
Apologies, wrong thread I know, but hopefully it’s relevant…I think the last set of dHDL on Front Squats is absolutely brutal. That REALLY feels like met con is a limiting factor to muscular performance.
(I’ll post this as a question/comment in the relevant/new thread)
[/quote]
Then do 3 sets of 5 reps with 30 sec of rest with 80-85%
So, I’ve gone back and been reading through the last few months of live spills and you have me interested in explosive lifting. I’ve never really done it because I’ve never had a coach or knowledgeable people around me (in that sort of thing). But, it seems like a block high pull might be low enough technique wise for someone to learn on their own.
So, what’s the best way to go about learning block high pulls for a novice without any sort of coaching? Watch videos? Post videos for review online?
Should I just be practicing with an empty bar for a while? There a book I should read or a good list of mental ques I should know?
Thanks for all the time you invest helping people and essentially coming back tot he forums. It’s much appreciated. Not sure if this should be a separate thread.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So, I’ve gone back and been reading through the last few months of live spills and you have me interested in explosive lifting. I’ve never really done it because I’ve never had a coach or knowledgeable people around me (in that sort of thing). But, it seems like a block high pull might be low enough technique wise for someone to learn on their own.
So, what’s the best way to go about learning block high pulls for a novice without any sort of coaching? Watch videos? Post videos for review online?
Should I just be practicing with an empty bar for a while? There a book I should read or a good list of mental ques I should know?
Thanks for all the time you invest helping people and essentially coming back tot he forums. It’s much appreciated. Not sure if this should be a separate thread.[/quote]
I have a video in the exercise video library (under the “Training” button at the top).
The keys are to rock the chest up and keep the mid back thight but the arms LOOSE at the start, and focus on exploding up with the legs to propel the weight up, the arms do very little pulling.
An empty bar might be okay as a warm-up, but it is too light to actually learn the movement… kinda like trying to throw a wiffle ball hard.
You don’t have to reach your neck, anything above the nipple line is a high pull.
So, this may be an individual thing, but is it an exploding up thing , or a pushing hips through thing (comming from a powerlifting deadlift background which is all wrong I’m sure)? I did watch the vide. When I tried it I feel it as a hip move. I can go look at starting position again in the video, maybe I need to start with more leg bend?
What kind of weight range should I be expecting to use learning? Should I be going heavy enough I’m failing reps while learning?i