Experiences with Recreational Drugs

Off Topic
82

[quote]SeanT wrote:

I’m not saying take it lightly, NO Hallucinogen should be taken lightly. If you are in a good environment with a good vibe and a trust trip sitter, it is rare to have a bad trip.

[/quote]

I wasn’t suggesting that you were, sorry if it came off that way. I was responding to the same post you were responding to.

You’re right: a good environment and a good friend make all the difference in the world.

Yes, you can. There is nothing physically stopping you from putting little pieces of paper on your tongue day after day. Some people don’t even go to sleep, they just stay up for days and keep eating the stuff. Is it something a normal, healthy person would do? No, but the result is still a room with padded walls.

Not everyone is cut out for hallucinogens, but I don’t find occasional, responsible use to be counterproductive to a healthy lifestyle.

83

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m actually kind of surprised that more people don’t know at least a couple of people who lost their minds because of drugs.

One I’ve seen happen temporarily, and the other still isn’t right.

It’s enough to make you not want to fuck around.[/quote]

I’ve seen honor students’ futures flushed down the drain at least a dozen times. One girl, found on the floor by her mom passed out. They thought she had permanently lost most of her brain function when they brought her to the hospital. Inhalents are shitty, don’t do them.

84

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m actually kind of surprised that more people don’t know at least a couple of people who lost their minds because of drugs.

One I’ve seen happen temporarily, and the other still isn’t right.

It’s enough to make you not want to fuck around.

I’ve seen honor students’ futures flushed down the drain at least a dozen times. One girl, found on the floor by her mom passed out. They thought she had permanently lost most of her brain function when they brought her to the hospital. Inhalents are shitty, don’t do them.[/quote]

Inhalants always seemed entirely ridiculous to me. Aren’t there easier, safer, more fun ways to get high? Kids are stupid.

85

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m actually kind of surprised that more people don’t know at least a couple of people who lost their minds because of drugs.

One I’ve seen happen temporarily, and the other still isn’t right.

It’s enough to make you not want to fuck around.

I’ve seen honor students’ futures flushed down the drain at least a dozen times. One girl, found on the floor by her mom passed out. They thought she had permanently lost most of her brain function when they brought her to the hospital. Inhalents are shitty, don’t do them.[/quote]

As an aside why are honors students held on such a pedestal compared to the “normies”

The vast majority of honor students never have and never will have what it takes to be any better than average.

86

[quote]johnward82 wrote:
I must admit, while being nieve and unexperienced with the subject at hand, I wonder how skewed the data is regaurding “alcohol kills more people than drugs” simply based on the legality. IE, the pool or alcohol users is going to be signifigantly higher than crack heads due to the legality of the substance. Like I said earlier, I might be incline to try pot if it was legal, but its not, so I dont/wont.[/quote]

I am looking at the ratio of users:deaths(a year) in the U.K. because I have numbers to that. I’ll fill you in and you must realize that most deaths come from ODes that is from varying qualities and cuts.

[quote]Horizon: Is Alcohol worse than Ecstasy?

Heroin: 300,000/700 deaths = 429 users/1 death

Cocaine: 780,000/214 deaths = 3,645 users/1 death

Street Methadone: 33,000/295 deaths = 112 users/1 death

Alkyl Nitrite(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 400,000/0 = 0 deaths

Khat(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 40,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ecstasy: 500,000/27 deaths = 18,519 users/1 death

Anabolic Steroids: 42,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ritalin(Methylphenidate): 40,000/0 = 0 death

LSD: 83,000/0 = 0 death

Solvents: 30,000/50-60( Bag falls over head, but solvents cause irreversible damage to nerves and organs) = 500-600/1 death

Cannabis: 3,000,000/1 death(I think the death was later confirmed not to be cannabis) = 3,000,000/1 death(if a true death)

Amphetamines: 430,000/35 = 12,286/1 death

Benzos: 100,000/406 = 246/1 death

Ketamine: 100,000/1 = 100,000/1 death

Tobacco: 10,000,000/114,000 = 88/1 death

Alcohol: 40,000,000/40,000 = 1,000/1 death
[/quote]

Then I calculated(I understand that many people are poly drug users these are not super accurate)

Heroin is non-toxic, so if legalized(I am not saying legalize it, I’m just saying), the amount of deaths would drop DRASTICALLY. Most drugs if legalized(again, I do NOT support this), the amount of deaths would drop due to clean products and not having to guess the strength.

87

How did these people die? Is every death a result of drug usage, and how so? Are people ODing on tobacco?

88

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
How did these people die? Is every death a result of drug usage, and how so? Are people ODing on tobacco?[/quote]

Some is from ODing, some is from over heating, tobacco is mainly things like lung cancer, strokes(direct cause of smoking). I will find the study later if you want so it will answer your questions.

89

[quote]SeanT wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
How did these people die? Is every death a result of drug usage, and how so? Are people ODing on tobacco?

Some is from ODing, some is from over heating, tobacco is mainly things like lung cancer, strokes(direct cause of smoking). I will find the study later if you want so it will answer your questions.[/quote]

It seems like a rather unexact science. How can one prove that each individual smoker with lung cancer/stroke was killed by the tobacco? Same deal with the other drugs. Feels a bit slapdash.

90

[quote]SeanT wrote:
johnward82 wrote:
I must admit, while being nieve and unexperienced with the subject at hand, I wonder how skewed the data is regaurding “alcohol kills more people than drugs” simply based on the legality. IE, the pool or alcohol users is going to be signifigantly higher than crack heads due to the legality of the substance. Like I said earlier, I might be incline to try pot if it was legal, but its not, so I dont/wont.

I am looking at the ratio of users:deaths(a year) in the U.K. because I have numbers to that. I’ll fill you in and you must realize that most deaths come from ODes that is from varying qualities and cuts.

Horizon: Is Alcohol worse than Ecstasy?

Heroin: 300,000/700 deaths = 429 users/1 death

Cocaine: 780,000/214 deaths = 3,645 users/1 death

Street Methadone: 33,000/295 deaths = 112 users/1 death

Alkyl Nitrite(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 400,000/0 = 0 deaths

Khat(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 40,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ecstasy: 500,000/27 deaths = 18,519 users/1 death

Anabolic Steroids: 42,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ritalin(Methylphenidate): 40,000/0 = 0 death

LSD: 83,000/0 = 0 death

Solvents: 30,000/50-60( Bag falls over head, but solvents cause irreversible damage to nerves and organs) = 500-600/1 death

Cannabis: 3,000,000/1 death(I think the death was later confirmed not to be cannabis) = 3,000,000/1 death(if a true death)

Amphetamines: 430,000/35 = 12,286/1 death

Benzos: 100,000/406 = 246/1 death

Ketamine: 100,000/1 = 100,000/1 death

Tobacco: 10,000,000/114,000 = 88/1 death

Alcohol: 40,000,000/40,000 = 1,000/1 death

Then I calculated(I understand that many people are poly drug users these are not super accurate)

All users and deaths other than Tobacco + Alcohol:
5,877,916 users/ 1738 deaths =
3,382users/1 death

All users of Tobacco + alcohol:
50,000,000 users/154,000 deaths
325 Users/1 death

So Tobacco + alcohol kill 10x more people

Heroin is non-toxic, so if legalized(I am not saying legalize it, I’m just saying), the amount of deaths would drop DRASTICALLY. Most drugs if legalized(again, I do NOT support this), the amount of deaths would drop due to clean products and not having to guess the strength.

[/quote]

Thats good, and I can see the point, but then should you not compare that to deaths from say, alcohol posioning? I still think, and maybe it is just a stretch, that we are not comparing apples to apples. Your deaths from drugs come from “immediate” OD where no one has died from tobacco in the short term. Its like comparing long term death to short term death isn’t it?

Not that I really dissagree, but for the sake of argument.

91

What really bothers me is that these things are illegal. Like marijuana. Why is it illegal? Because it’s bad for you? Well so is alcohol and tobacco maybe even more so. Plus from what folks tell me marijuana isn’t really addictive.

Once again I’ve never done drugs but there seems to me that there’s no reason for it to be illegal.

Think about it… If all drugs were legalized, or taken off the “controlled substance” list, that’s so much money that our gov. would save that they could put ot better use than telling us that that’s one more thing we can’t do.

92

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
SeanT wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
How did these people die? Is every death a result of drug usage, and how so? Are people ODing on tobacco?

Some is from ODing, some is from over heating, tobacco is mainly things like lung cancer, strokes(direct cause of smoking). I will find the study later if you want so it will answer your questions.

It seems like a rather unexact science. How can one prove that each individual smoker with lung cancer/stroke was killed by the tobacco? Same deal with the other drugs. Feels a bit slapdash.[/quote]

It now does seem rather unexact. I am too lazy to look for the study, so I’ll just show you to the bbc website.

93

[quote]johnward82 wrote:
SeanT wrote:
johnward82 wrote:
I must admit, while being nieve and unexperienced with the subject at hand, I wonder how skewed the data is regaurding “alcohol kills more people than drugs” simply based on the legality. IE, the pool or alcohol users is going to be signifigantly higher than crack heads due to the legality of the substance. Like I said earlier, I might be incline to try pot if it was legal, but its not, so I dont/wont.

I am looking at the ratio of users:deaths(a year) in the U.K. because I have numbers to that. I’ll fill you in and you must realize that most deaths come from ODes that is from varying qualities and cuts.

Horizon: Is Alcohol worse than Ecstasy?

Heroin: 300,000/700 deaths = 429 users/1 death

Cocaine: 780,000/214 deaths = 3,645 users/1 death

Street Methadone: 33,000/295 deaths = 112 users/1 death

Alkyl Nitrite(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 400,000/0 = 0 deaths

Khat(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 40,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ecstasy: 500,000/27 deaths = 18,519 users/1 death

Anabolic Steroids: 42,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ritalin(Methylphenidate): 40,000/0 = 0 death

LSD: 83,000/0 = 0 death

Solvents: 30,000/50-60( Bag falls over head, but solvents cause irreversible damage to nerves and organs) = 500-600/1 death

Cannabis: 3,000,000/1 death(I think the death was later confirmed not to be cannabis) = 3,000,000/1 death(if a true death)

Amphetamines: 430,000/35 = 12,286/1 death

Benzos: 100,000/406 = 246/1 death

Ketamine: 100,000/1 = 100,000/1 death

Tobacco: 10,000,000/114,000 = 88/1 death

Alcohol: 40,000,000/40,000 = 1,000/1 death

Then I calculated(I understand that many people are poly drug users these are not super accurate)

All users and deaths other than Tobacco + Alcohol:
5,877,916 users/ 1738 deaths =
3,382users/1 death

All users of Tobacco + alcohol:
50,000,000 users/154,000 deaths
325 Users/1 death

So Tobacco + alcohol kill 10x more people

Heroin is non-toxic, so if legalized(I am not saying legalize it, I’m just saying), the amount of deaths would drop DRASTICALLY. Most drugs if legalized(again, I do NOT support this), the amount of deaths would drop due to clean products and not having to guess the strength.

Thats good, and I can see the point, but then should you not compare that to deaths from say, alcohol posioning? I still think, and maybe it is just a stretch, that we are not comparing apples to apples. Your deaths from drugs come from “immediate” OD where no one has died from tobacco in the short term. Its like comparing long term death to short term death isn’t it?

Not that I really dissagree, but for the sake of argument.
[/quote]

I understand exactly what you are saying, it’s not very accurate, but its a nice perspective on things.

Also, according to the BBC, Alcohol withdraw is worse than heroin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/mental_health/drugs_use.shtml#what_are_the_symptoms?__
Physical addiction

It’s ironic that through films such as Trainspotting quite a lot of people feel that they understand the physical effects of withdrawal from heroin. They rightly see it as an unpleasant and difficult experience - and a good reason not to experiment with it.

The irony is that alcohol has much worse and more dangerous withdrawal effects. It’s possible, but very rare, for someone experiencing heroin withdrawal to need to be admitted to hospital, while someone who is physically addicted to alcohol should not attempt to stop using it without consulting a doctor.

Again, as with psychological dependence, the length and severity of withdrawal differs according to the drug, how much has been taken and for how long.

For most addicts, their problem is a mixture of both physical and psychological aspects. There are some instances when it’s difficult to distinguish between the two.

The stimulants cocaine and amphetamine are classic examples of this - people coming down after using these drugs feel very low and lack energy. When they take cocaine, they feel very high and use up lots of energy. Their feelings afterwards could be partly because of feeling tired and adjusting to a normal mood again, but there are other theories that suggest these feelings are because the body is re-establishing its chemical balance.

94

Alls I needed to see was one good kid’s life get ruined by ketamine to make my mind up about heavy drugs.

95

Biases against drugs have been so ingrained in most people for the past few generations. People seem to forget about personal responsibility and freedom of choice. It’s frightening that more people don’t take offense to a government’s attempts to control what you do with your person. Instead we allow ‘nannying’ from the government and trust that they’re doing it in our best interests. It goes to the heart of what the purpose of a government is. As far as I can see regarding drug laws, government’s purpose seems to be protecting us from ourselves: an idea all to foreign those who founded this country.

96

Well this post might get me flamed, but whatever. I’ve done 3 drugs in my life. Weed, mushrooms, ecstacy.

Now weed was a teenage thing. Cant stand the stuff now, makes me feel like poo.

Mushrooms were my drug of choice in University. I personally don’t think theres any harm in magic mushrooms, as long as you have a trusted source for them (and in fact I grew my own in a litte plastic box, because then I knew exactly where they came from). I used to do shrooms about once a month or so, as I felt that it helped me feel connected in some mystical way. I don’t do shrooms anymore becuase coming down off mushrooms is not a lot of fun. Makes you feel very very low.

Now ecstacy…my god…I love ecstacy. I’m talking pure ex, not the speed mix that is often found at raves. I’m talkin pure MDMA. I don’t do it often. I’ve only done it 3 times. But my dear god. Its such a fantastic high. Again, problem here is coming off ecstacy. Being on ecstacy is such an unreal world, everything is perfect, and you’re the fucking man. People love you, and you love everyone. Everything is just peachy keen. Your brain is so drained of neurotransmitters afterwards though that you feel down for like a week. Which is why this is a VERY VERY occasional drug.

Thats my take on drugs… occasional usage is best, IF you can handle the risks.

97

I should stay away from this topic, but I did a lot of hallucinogens in college. Got caught up, went through some major changes and learned a lot. They got me to quit smoking pot and focus on my studies, and generally made me more aware and respectable of others and their feelings. I’m a better person for having went through those experiences.

I don’t do them anymore, for personal and work related reasons. I try to meditate instead but I’ve been laxing on that.

They did help me figure a lot of things out and mostly from taking them by myself, without a spotter, and really trying to explore the experience.

A couple books I do recommend for people interested in the topic are…

Breaking Open the Head by Daniel Pinchbeck
(Its like a journalistic account of a man’s introduction to a lot of hallucinogens and drug culture. Not too scientific but a very interesting read.)

DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Dr. Richard Strassman
(A medical doctor got permission to do the first medical/psychological study of hallucinogens in awhile and it was DMT which is pretty much the strongest hallucinogen in existence. This is the book he wrote about it. Not overly scientific, and again is a very good read.)

98

^ just want to comment that its pretty dangerous to try hardcore drugs like hallucinogens by yourself. You have no idea how you will react to the drug and its just stupid to try it alone with noone around in case something goes wrong.

99

my expierences:

marijuauna:

fun, dont really like smoking. eaten it did nothing for me. i prefer to take it straight in a pipe or bong. probably do it once every 2 months

salvia:
got this of a website… was a pretty weird/good high for 20 mins then its just a bit groggy. its more expensive than weed so i dont think ill do it again

extacy:
really good. would only take if i was going to a concert or something. never had a downer, just tiredness

mushrooms:
tried these in amsterdam. awesome, would defo do them again, we sat in that famous square in amsterdam for 4 hours just watching ppl and it was really good.

i think i want to try LSD but i dont know yet.

dont think ill do anything else.

100

[quote]SeanT wrote:
johnward82 wrote:
I must admit, while being nieve and unexperienced with the subject at hand, I wonder how skewed the data is regaurding “alcohol kills more people than drugs” simply based on the legality. IE, the pool or alcohol users is going to be signifigantly higher than crack heads due to the legality of the substance. Like I said earlier, I might be incline to try pot if it was legal, but its not, so I dont/wont.

I am looking at the ratio of users:deaths(a year) in the U.K. because I have numbers to that. I’ll fill you in and you must realize that most deaths come from ODes that is from varying qualities and cuts.

Horizon: Is Alcohol worse than Ecstasy?

Heroin: 300,000/700 deaths = 429 users/1 death

Cocaine: 780,000/214 deaths = 3,645 users/1 death

Street Methadone: 33,000/295 deaths = 112 users/1 death

Alkyl Nitrite(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 400,000/0 = 0 deaths

Khat(legal in UK, Illegal in US): 40,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ecstasy: 500,000/27 deaths = 18,519 users/1 death

Anabolic Steroids: 42,000/0 = 0 deaths

Ritalin(Methylphenidate): 40,000/0 = 0 death

LSD: 83,000/0 = 0 death

Solvents: 30,000/50-60( Bag falls over head, but solvents cause irreversible damage to nerves and organs) = 500-600/1 death

Cannabis: 3,000,000/1 death(I think the death was later confirmed not to be cannabis) = 3,000,000/1 death(if a true death)

Amphetamines: 430,000/35 = 12,286/1 death

Benzos: 100,000/406 = 246/1 death

Ketamine: 100,000/1 = 100,000/1 death

Tobacco: 10,000,000/114,000 = 88/1 death

Alcohol: 40,000,000/40,000 = 1,000/1 death

Then I calculated(I understand that many people are poly drug users these are not super accurate)

All users and deaths other than Tobacco + Alcohol:
5,877,916 users/ 1738 deaths =
3,382users/1 death

All users of Tobacco + alcohol:
50,000,000 users/154,000 deaths
325 Users/1 death

So Tobacco + alcohol kill 10x more people

Heroin is non-toxic, so if legalized(I am not saying legalize it, I’m just saying), the amount of deaths would drop DRASTICALLY. Most drugs if legalized(again, I do NOT support this), the amount of deaths would drop due to clean products and not having to guess the strength.

[/quote]

I looked back, I do not know who made the original post, but where did that info come from? Thanks PB

101

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m actually kind of surprised that more people don’t know at least a couple of people who lost their minds because of drugs.

One I’ve seen happen temporarily, and the other still isn’t right.

It’s enough to make you not want to fuck around.[/quote]

I suspect they are still very young. Give them a few more years and the will see it too.