Experiences with Recreational Drugs

Off Topic
182

[quote]Cortes wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
SeanT wrote:

What I am trying to emphasize is getting hooked on a drug is a process

this is basically what I was saying to begin with.

you become an addict because you let yourself become one.

If you can handle it, great. if you can’t you probably should stay the hell away from anything harder then pot.

No. Whatever you guys are saying is too simplistic (naive?) and implies that addiction is wholly psychological and not based on lasting changes in brain chemistry.

Here’s some reading on where neuroscientists are currently at in terms of studying addiction at the molecular level:

So you can’t consciously make a decision? Really?

If it were only that simple.

Look up limbic system and dopamine, for starters. And if you’re up to it, go ahead and read some of those articles I already linked.

it IS that simple. Drugs to not implant anything that makes the decision for you. Ulitamtely YOU decide what you do. Anything else is just an excuse.

zephead, your posts are starting to sound stupid. You obviously did not read a single one of the many articles linked in chillains very good post. Addiction is a LOT more complicated than someone making a simple decision one way or another. This is the first time I have seen the subject tackled this scientifically, and it is an eye opener, very enlightening.

I won’t go into my own experience with addiction here, but I have plenty of personal experience as well as rich secondary (witness) experience, and I will say that anybody who thinks that it is as simple as just deciding to say “no” one day has no real firsthand experience with the topic at hand. It is the same as theorists and pie-in-the-sky “trainers” versus people who have achieved real world results. Addiction to hard drugs (I actually include alcohol in this), is a whole other animal, and I think that the entire subject is more misunderstood than it is understood, at this point.[/quote]

Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.

183

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.
[/quote]

Drug use certainly doesn’t remove guilt from actions done “under the influence” but you can’t argue against the fact that people will do shit they would not have done if they were not using drugs.
I’m surprised no one has brought up Charles Manson yet, or maybe I missed it.

184

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Cortes wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
SeanT wrote:

What I am trying to emphasize is getting hooked on a drug is a process

this is basically what I was saying to begin with.

you become an addict because you let yourself become one.

If you can handle it, great. if you can’t you probably should stay the hell away from anything harder then pot.

No. Whatever you guys are saying is too simplistic (naive?) and implies that addiction is wholly psychological and not based on lasting changes in brain chemistry.

Here’s some reading on where neuroscientists are currently at in terms of studying addiction at the molecular level:

So you can’t consciously make a decision? Really?

If it were only that simple.

Look up limbic system and dopamine, for starters. And if you’re up to it, go ahead and read some of those articles I already linked.

it IS that simple. Drugs to not implant anything that makes the decision for you. Ulitamtely YOU decide what you do. Anything else is just an excuse.

zephead, your posts are starting to sound stupid. You obviously did not read a single one of the many articles linked in chillains very good post. Addiction is a LOT more complicated than someone making a simple decision one way or another. This is the first time I have seen the subject tackled this scientifically, and it is an eye opener, very enlightening.

I won’t go into my own experience with addiction here, but I have plenty of personal experience as well as rich secondary (witness) experience, and I will say that anybody who thinks that it is as simple as just deciding to say “no” one day has no real firsthand experience with the topic at hand. It is the same as theorists and pie-in-the-sky “trainers” versus people who have achieved real world results. Addiction to hard drugs (I actually include alcohol in this), is a whole other animal, and I think that the entire subject is more misunderstood than it is understood, at this point.

Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.
[/quote]

Just curious Zeph have you ever tried any hard drugs? Do you speak from experience?

I used to think exactly like you for the longest time, honestly. Anybody can stop smoking weed, right? Even cigarettes right? Well I agree with you there. And I did those things.

But stuff like crack is different. Lets say you want to take one puff, only one puff, just to try. And thats it. Well as soon as you take that one puff you will want more. Forget that you only wanted to take one puff. You will smoke whatever the fuck is on the table… all night if it takes all night.

Crack really fucks your brain like that. yes its changes your brain chemistry.

185

[quote]hit the gym wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Cortes wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
SeanT wrote:

What I am trying to emphasize is getting hooked on a drug is a process

this is basically what I was saying to begin with.

you become an addict because you let yourself become one.

If you can handle it, great. if you can’t you probably should stay the hell away from anything harder then pot.

No. Whatever you guys are saying is too simplistic (naive?) and implies that addiction is wholly psychological and not based on lasting changes in brain chemistry.

Here’s some reading on where neuroscientists are currently at in terms of studying addiction at the molecular level:

So you can’t consciously make a decision? Really?

If it were only that simple.

Look up limbic system and dopamine, for starters. And if you’re up to it, go ahead and read some of those articles I already linked.

it IS that simple. Drugs to not implant anything that makes the decision for you. Ulitamtely YOU decide what you do. Anything else is just an excuse.

zephead, your posts are starting to sound stupid. You obviously did not read a single one of the many articles linked in chillains very good post. Addiction is a LOT more complicated than someone making a simple decision one way or another. This is the first time I have seen the subject tackled this scientifically, and it is an eye opener, very enlightening.

I won’t go into my own experience with addiction here, but I have plenty of personal experience as well as rich secondary (witness) experience, and I will say that anybody who thinks that it is as simple as just deciding to say “no” one day has no real firsthand experience with the topic at hand. It is the same as theorists and pie-in-the-sky “trainers” versus people who have achieved real world results. Addiction to hard drugs (I actually include alcohol in this), is a whole other animal, and I think that the entire subject is more misunderstood than it is understood, at this point.

Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.

Just curious Zeph have you ever tried any hard drugs? Do you speak from experience?

I used to think exactly like you for the longest time, honestly. Anybody can stop smoking weed, right? Even cigarettes right? Well I agree with you there. And I did those things.

But stuff like crack is different. Lets say you want to take one puff, only one puff, just to try. And thats it. Well as soon as you take that one puff you will want more. Forget that you only wanted to take one puff. You will smoke whatever the fuck is on the table… all night if it takes all night.

Crack really fucks your brain like that. yes its changes your brain chemistry.[/quote]

So, nobody in the world can resist crack once the have had a hit? I don’t really buy that. I do understand that it is incredibly easy to get hooked if one has easy access and is around people. I don’t think people should ever try crack, but as Zeph said, you don’t just wake up and say “I want to try crack.”

While I am unsure of Zeph’s drug usage, FUBAR(my friend) has tried many hard drugs(multiple times), and FUBAR is still here addiction free? FUBAR has never gotten a craving for a hard drug, FUBAR may think one would be nice once in a blue moon, and that’s as far as FUBAR will think about it.

Nicotine is considered MORE addictive as a drug than heroin.

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/hening.html

186

[quote]hit the gym wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Cortes wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
chillain wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
SeanT wrote:

What I am trying to emphasize is getting hooked on a drug is a process

this is basically what I was saying to begin with.

you become an addict because you let yourself become one.

If you can handle it, great. if you can’t you probably should stay the hell away from anything harder then pot.

No. Whatever you guys are saying is too simplistic (naive?) and implies that addiction is wholly psychological and not based on lasting changes in brain chemistry.

Here’s some reading on where neuroscientists are currently at in terms of studying addiction at the molecular level:

So you can’t consciously make a decision? Really?

If it were only that simple.

Look up limbic system and dopamine, for starters. And if you’re up to it, go ahead and read some of those articles I already linked.

it IS that simple. Drugs to not implant anything that makes the decision for you. Ulitamtely YOU decide what you do. Anything else is just an excuse.

zephead, your posts are starting to sound stupid. You obviously did not read a single one of the many articles linked in chillains very good post. Addiction is a LOT more complicated than someone making a simple decision one way or another. This is the first time I have seen the subject tackled this scientifically, and it is an eye opener, very enlightening.

I won’t go into my own experience with addiction here, but I have plenty of personal experience as well as rich secondary (witness) experience, and I will say that anybody who thinks that it is as simple as just deciding to say “no” one day has no real firsthand experience with the topic at hand. It is the same as theorists and pie-in-the-sky “trainers” versus people who have achieved real world results. Addiction to hard drugs (I actually include alcohol in this), is a whole other animal, and I think that the entire subject is more misunderstood than it is understood, at this point.

Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.

Just curious Zeph have you ever tried any hard drugs? Do you speak from experience?

I used to think exactly like you for the longest time, honestly. Anybody can stop smoking weed, right? Even cigarettes right? Well I agree with you there. And I did those things.

But stuff like crack is different. Lets say you want to take one puff, only one puff, just to try. And thats it. Well as soon as you take that one puff you will want more. Forget that you only wanted to take one puff. You will smoke whatever the fuck is on the table… all night if it takes all night.

Crack really fucks your brain like that. yes its changes your brain chemistry.[/quote]

I’ll pm you about it.

there’s a reason I usually don’t get involved in these threads

187

The girls I partied with…

last i head the girl with the appartment is living on the streets. it wouldnt surprise me if she was dead unfortunately.

the other girl marla i still speak to and she is still hooked and honestly i dont see her stoping anytime soon unfortunately. she became a stripper for a little bit. she just lost her other job and is currently unemployed. sad when you think that she has 2 kids, fortunately not in her custody right now.

joseph, who used to hang around the factory where they made the crack and smoke it for days and night non-stop, met a very strict girl and looks like he changed. unfortunately, his brother was not so lucky. he was found dead near a river…

just thought id share my stories.

188

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
…

Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.
[/quote]

They fuck up your abilities to make a good decision.

189

[quote]SeanT wrote:

Nicotine is considered MORE addictive as a drug than heroin.

[/quote]

But it’s a hell of a lot easier to quit smoking.

191

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
…

Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.

They fuck up your abilities to make a good decision.[/quote]

while on them, I was talking about chooseing to keep doing it. IE the next day, the day after that. Most people don’t have the money to stay fucked up 24/7. You choose to continue to do the drug.

192

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
johnward82 wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
FightingScott wrote:

There was a lot more that I wrote and deleted, but realy what’s the use?

Sometimes the best teacher is time and effort.

Then there are otheres here that enjoy reading/learning and if you had something worth writing, a lot of us would find it worth reading.

I appreciate everyones views, facts, opinions, wrong or right on every subject. Even though I may or may not have anything to add, its valuble data to add to my brain.

FWIW

But my adventures with drug use are largely contradictory to what is currently going on in the thread.

You see they started out good enough. A bunch of us from the same neighborhood all hanging out and smoking up. A good time was had by all. Then it got a little more serious when some quick math revealed that we could make a lot of money and smoke free weed. Then there were people trying to rip eachother off, debts accumulating, and least of all, attention from the cops.

But we knew what we were doing. We did our own independent studies, experimented with use, and had it all figured out. The problem was that after about 10 years of that shit, our perspectives and places in life had changed. We figured out how to use drugs but hadn’t figured out how to live a decent life. So a couple of us ended up in jail for a couple of beatdowns, and a few others just plain old died. Well to be more accurate- a couple of them got their heads blown off. One guy got chopped to peices and parts of him were found, and others weren’t. Of course a couple are still kicking in a languid state half life. Not realy alive, but not quite dead yet.

I feel prety fortunate. I’ve been there, done it and lived to tell about it, which is more than a lot of people will never have a chance to say.

So I’ve kind of held back on this and spared the gory details, cause my story has nothing to do with educating yourself on safe drug use, exercising some willpower, and getting a freaking babysitter.

For christ sake, a baby sitter. If someone had tried to tell us to cool it with our drug use, they would have been lit on fire and put out with a baseball bat.

And remenber- Always trust your drug dealer. They would never steer you wrong, always have your best interests in mind, and will not beat you into a hospital bed because you owe them a few bucks. They won’t shoot you either.

My story has to do with what happens when you think you have it under control. ;}

[/quote]

Thank you. And it is relevant. Its the end result of drug use that no one thought would happen. Extreme example? Probably, but it shows that drugs can rule you if given the opportunity. Some people seem to miss that.

193

[quote]SeanT wrote:
I don’t think people should ever try crack, but as Zeph said, you don’t just wake up and say “I want to try crack.”
[/quote]

I agree with you there completely. You never wake up and say hmm, lets try crack. But it could happen that you mix in with the wrong crowd one night… and decide to take a hit, just one hit, why not.

I agree with you there and have read the studies also. From what I understand though, for experienced heroin users, without it you feel extremely depressed. It is impossible to feel happy or even be in a normal state without it. To be happy, you have to use. It is a vicious cycle. That is what is meant by physical addiction. Yes it really fucks your brain up.

You are probably right and well yes the studies say so, but i dont know man, heroin addiction scares me more. like that guy in this thread that grew up next to a heroin rehab center.

194

[quote]hit the gym wrote:

I agree with you there and have read the studies also. From what I understand though, for experienced heroin users, without it you feel extremely depressed. It is impossible to feel happy or even be in a normal state without it. To be happy, you have to use. It is a vicious cycle. That is what is meant by physical addiction. Yes it really fucks your brain up.
[/quote]

Without heroin, you are much worse than depressed. Within 8 hours of your last fix, you start to feel sick, and about 24 hours later, the shakes start, you feel like you have the flu, and by day 2, you hit full-blown withdrawal. That’s when the stomach cramps, chills, puking, crushing headaches, profuse sweating, muscle cramps, shitting the bed (or your pants), panic and non-stop tremors are hitting you full swing.

FYI: Experienced heroin users are called junkies.

195

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
That’s not to say that some of them won’t go for it until all their stash is gone, but they’re not addicts or fiends.
[/quote]

Yes you will go for it until all the stash is gone. You have a bag of weed you could roll a joint and keep the rest for later. for cigarettes, you have a smoke or two and are good for a few hours.

but with crack, you will smoke until there is nothing left. the addiction is really crazy. im guessing thats why you hear about so many overdoses.

however, that being said, yes i agree with you that doing it one time or maybe even a few times will not make you an addict. however, the line is thin IMO.

196

Ok, since were sharing stories of people we’ve known and drugs here’s one about a guy I knew from high school that I recently read about in my hometown newspaper. Nick was a senior when I was a freshmen and had a twin brother Rich. These guys were part of the party crowd always throwing keggers on the weekends and being good looking guys were always dating the prettiest girls in our high school.

They were always very cool dudes and I would run into them a lot in my twenties and early thirties when I still partook of my hometowns nightlife scene. While I guess somewhere in these past ten or so years Nick went from snorting a few lines of coke here and there to becoming a full blow crack addict. He had a few articles done on him in my hometown paper the first upon his arrest for swindling and then he appeared a few more times regarding the final one on his sentencing.

Nick who was always very popular had many friends since the high school days and was friends with the parents and grandparents of his since high school buds. Seems he was showing up at the grandparents homes at ungodly times of the night and proclaiming car trouble and asking to borrow twenty five buck here or fifty there to get a tow and or cab ride home. Of course being a crack head this money was going for neither a tow or cab ride but into a crack pipe.

Well, after doing this quite a number of times with promises of paying back the good Samaritans never being fulfilled and word getting around due to many of these people knowing each other he was investigated and subsequently arrested for swindling the elderly.

I last read about him a few months ago when his sentence was reported. He got something like two years work release jail and has to pay fines and restitution to the elderly victims in addition to the stringent requirements of probation i.e. drug testing, counseling, and community service. But, the worst thing in my opinion is to all the people who knew him in our hometown he is literally a pariah at forty years old with nothing to show for his life. I hope he gets his shit together, but even so it will take him years if ever to live that kind of self humiliation down.

Sorry for such a long post, but this thread brought this to mind since it happened and was being reported on over the last year and he was recently sentenced. It is quite a good example of what you can expect if you decide to take a dance with the devil.

D

197

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
…

Foolish? Drugs change brain chemistry. But they don’t prevent you from making a conscious decision. There is no little man pulling the levers for you.

They fuck up your abilities to make a good decision.

while on them, I was talking about chooseing to keep doing it. IE the next day, the day after that. Most people don’t have the money to stay fucked up 24/7. You choose to continue to do the drug.[/quote]

Withdraw symptoms heavily influence your decision to keep doing drugs. Heroin withdraw is not just a mental thing. You become physically ill.

198

[quote]johnward82 wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
My story has to do with what happens when you think you have it under control. ;}

Thank you. And it is relevant. Its the end result of drug use that no one thought would happen. Extreme example? Probably, but it shows that drugs can rule you if given the opportunity. Some people seem to miss that.
[/quote]

Actually, it is a lot more common and not as extreme of an example as one might think. My experience was bad. There are others who have had and still have it much worse.

Stuff like mine happens every day. There are new users popping up and old ones are going down as we speak.

I along with Bushy can account for a couple of people I have known that could put down crack and not look back. I can’t imagine how or why, but they did it. But thats 2 out of the millions of others that have freaked the hell out and ruined their lives, NOT a ringing endorsement.

199

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
hit the gym wrote:

I agree with you there and have read the studies also. From what I understand though, for experienced heroin users, without it you feel extremely depressed. It is impossible to feel happy or even be in a normal state without it. To be happy, you have to use. It is a vicious cycle. That is what is meant by physical addiction. Yes it really fucks your brain up.

Without heroin, you are much worse than depressed. Within 8 hours of your last fix, you start to feel sick, and about 24 hours later, the shakes start, you feel like you have the flu, and by day 2, you hit full-blown withdrawal. That’s when the stomach cramps, chills, puking, crushing headaches, profuse sweating, muscle cramps, shitting the bed (or your pants), panic and non-stop tremors are hitting you full swing.

FYI: Experienced heroin users are called junkies.

[/quote]

I don’t know much about anything, but this made me wonder, why not put someone in a medical coma until the withdrawal symptoms are gone?

200

[quote]ahzaz wrote:
Yo Momma wrote:
hit the gym wrote:

I agree with you there and have read the studies also. From what I understand though, for experienced heroin users, without it you feel extremely depressed. It is impossible to feel happy or even be in a normal state without it. To be happy, you have to use. It is a vicious cycle. That is what is meant by physical addiction. Yes it really fucks your brain up.

Without heroin, you are much worse than depressed. Within 8 hours of your last fix, you start to feel sick, and about 24 hours later, the shakes start, you feel like you have the flu, and by day 2, you hit full-blown withdrawal. That’s when the stomach cramps, chills, puking, crushing headaches, profuse sweating, muscle cramps, shitting the bed (or your pants), panic and non-stop tremors are hitting you full swing.

FYI: Experienced heroin users are called junkies.

I don’t know much about anything, but this made me wonder, why not put someone in a medical coma until the withdrawal symptoms are gone?[/quote]

Some hospitals will do this, although they usually do a wallet biopsy first, to see if you have insurance or the money to pay for it. Back in the seventies, you just got handcuffed to the bed for 2 days. That’s what re-hab was back then.

201

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Ok, since were sharing stories of people we’ve known and drugs here’s one about a guy I knew from high school that I recently read about in my hometown newspaper. Nick was a senior when I was a freshmen and had a twin brother Rich. These guys were part of the party crowd always throwing keggers on the weekends and being good looking guys were always dating the prettiest girls in our high school.

They were always very cool dudes and I would run into them a lot in my twenties and early thirties when I still partook of my hometowns nightlife scene. While I guess somewhere in these past ten or so years Nick went from snorting a few lines of coke here and there to becoming a full blow crack addict. He had a few articles done on him in my hometown paper the first upon his arrest for swindling and then he appeared a few more times regarding the final one on his sentencing.

Nick who was always very popular had many friends since the high school days and was friends with the parents and grandparents of his since high school buds. Seems he was showing up at the grandparents homes at ungodly times of the night and proclaiming car trouble and asking to borrow twenty five buck here or fifty there to get a tow and or cab ride home. Of course being a crack head this money was going for neither a tow or cab ride but into a crack pipe.

Well, after doing this quite a number of times with promises of paying back the good Samaritans never being fulfilled and word getting around due to many of these people knowing each other he was investigated and subsequently arrested for swindling the elderly.

I last read about him a few months ago when his sentence was reported. He got something like two years work release jail and has to pay fines and restitution to the elderly victims in addition to the stringent requirements of probation i.e. drug testing, counseling, and community service. But, the worst thing in my opinion is to all the people who knew him in our hometown he is literally a pariah at forty years old with nothing to show for his life. I hope he gets his shit together, but even so it will take him years if ever to live that kind of self humiliation down.

Sorry for such a long post, but this thread brought this to mind since it happened and was being reported on over the last year and he was recently sentenced. It is quite a good example of what you can expect if you decide to take a dance with the devil.

D[/quote]

good post. sad story.