Exercise & the Antioxidant Network

Found this on Wikipedia:

Diets highly based on plants cause nutrient deficiencies…

[quote]"Relatively strong reducing acids [see below] can have antinutrient effects by binding to dietary minerals such as iron and zinc in the gastrointestinal tract and preventing them from being absorbed. Notable examples are oxalic acid, tannins and phytic acid, which are high in plant-based diets. Calcium and iron deficiencies are not uncommon in diets in developing countries where less meat is eaten and there is high consumption of phytic acid from beans and unleavened whole grain bread.

(Reducing acid present): Foods that contain it
(Oxalic acid): Cocoa and chocolate, spinach, turnip and rhubarb.
(Phytic acid): Whole grains, maize, legumes.
b[/b]: Tea, beans, cabbage.[/quote]Antioxidant - Wikipedia

Interesting. I know I’ve tested to be low in iron before.

Why argue with Dave Barr?

[quote]The Top 10 Post Workout Nutrition Myths Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
by Dave Barr

9. Using antioxidants post workout enhances recovery.
Hereâ??s another myth that just makes sense: we work out, cause all kinds of damage to our bodies, then we use antioxidants to help clean up the mess. Simple and sweet. The reality? Neither simple or sweet. In fact, it may not surprise you to find that there is a clear lack of data on antioxidant supplementation following exercise.

Taking a step back to look at the basis for the theory, itâ??s been shown that damaging eccentric exercise didnâ??t change the normal levels of our bodyâ??s antioxidants (Child et al., 1999). In other words, our body has a natural antioxidant defense capability, and this was not stressed at all despite the exercise and the subsequent muscle damage.

This is contradicted by other data showing that there is an impact of exercise on natural antioxidant levels (Lee et al., 2002; Goldfarb et al., 2005), but clearly the case is not closed. With this conflicting research, youâ??d have to wonder if antioxidant supplementation would have any effect at all! Oh it does, my oxidized friend, but the effects are not what weâ??d expect!

Once again, hereâ??s one of the most underrated research papers of the last 5 yearsâ??take note folks because this is one of those studies you need to know about. This groundbreaking research by Childs and buddies (2001) examined the impact of post workout antioxidant supplementation on subsequent muscle damage and healing.

Youâ??ll be shocked to know they found that this practice actually increased muscle damage and delayed recovery! Thatâ??s right, the microtrauma experienced by the muscle cells was exacerbated by the antioxidants. With this, the greater the damage, the more time it takes to repair.

It seems that there are pro-oxidant effects happening here, meaning that the “antioxidants” actually started causing the damage they were meant to clean up! While this effect is thought to occur with excessive antioxidant use, itâ??s surprising that these effects were seen at a Vitamin C dosage of ~1100mg and ~900mg N-Acetyl Cysteine per day, for a 200 lb guy, neither of which are all that incredibly high. To my knowledge, this is the only study to investigate antioxidant supplementation after strength training. This makes the findings incredibly powerful because they are directly applicable to us!

On a personal note, I was pretty blown away when I read this paper because Iâ??d been using Vitamin C post workout for years. While these data arenâ??t strong enough to make me swear off antioxidants altogether, they clearly show that we can overdo it quite easily with these supplements. More importantly, these data help us rethink the post workout window dogma.[/quote]

**Childs A, Jacobs C, Kaminski T, Halliwell B, Leeuwenburgh C. Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise. Free Radic Biol Med. 2001 Sep 15;31(6):745-53.

"I’m not suggesting that antioxidants are inherently harmful, or even that this particular type of antioxidant is harmful, but rather that we need to be fully aware of what we’re putting into our bodies. We all jumped onto the antioxidant bandwagon headfirst (myself included), but as evidence emerges, we’re realizing that there’s far more to the story than originally thought.

Bottom line: We don’t know enough about these powerful antioxidants to suggest their use ad libitum."
-Dave Barr

wtf…

I know. Wtf…

An article by Mike Roussell discussing vit C & E’s harmful effects on insulin sensitivity: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION

Discussion of the article and some good commentary on antioxidants can be found here: Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness

I think this was a very interesting thread, any updates on current research etc?

I skimmed most of it. BPT, May I reccomend Dr John Berardis Chili? Tired of trying to eat 13 different kinds of fruts and veggies day in and day out. Don’t have time to prepare umpteen plates of veggies to go along with your lean proteins? Dr JB’s chili is the answer, and in perfect time for football season.

Here is the basics of it. I tweak it all the time.

4Lbs 95% lean Ground Beef
4 Bell Peppers - (you can use red green orange yellow in any combo)
1Lb Carrots, sliced about 1 inch thick
2 large tomatoes (I used a lot more but didn’t use the V8- See below)
2 large onions
4-5 chopped jalepano or other hot peppers depending on your heat tolerence (I added this)
handful of chopped garlic
4 cans red kidney beans (I added 2 cans additional black beans)
2 things of V8 Spicy Hot (Here I had lots of tomatoes, so I just used like 20 more tomatoes instead)
Black pepper - couple spoonfuls
Salt - couple spoonfuls
Celery seed - couple spoonfuls
Cumin - couple spoonfuls
Paprika - couple spoonfuls X2
Chili Powder - a bunch to taste
(my secret ingredient) couple teaspoons of liquid smoke.

So that’s the basics and I believe with all the different veggies and spices etc… you will have a very nice antioxidant blend as well as a good overall nutritional profile. He says it feeds an army, for me thats like 9-10 servings. Of course you can start with this and then add in really anything veggie wise, keep it chopped to under an inch and it will just taste like chili. Keep 1/3 out and freeze the rest in quart bags. Make it 1X per month and you will be very happy.

V

Thank you vegita in definitely going to try that!

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]Pat_Butcher wrote:
Thank you vegita in definitely going to try that![/quote]

I am laughing HARD at your name!

WTF possessed you to call yourself after that character???

BBB[/quote]

Ha i want to grow up to be as hard as pat butcher! Really i just couldnt think of a name an it made me laugh thinking about it at the time!