WF- it depends on the judge with how they view cheating (good old boy vs liberal and all) and how that plays into custody…
X, a professor of mine just got a divorce and apparently got full custody after like a 2 and half year legal battle. First time I have heard of the father getting full custody. Ill try to get more details about it
DJHT, I feel for your situation with your new wife, but a $98,000 debt to child support agency that can never be reduced or forgiven? I would understand how a guy with no career to speak of would go underground to avoid that albatross around his neck for the rest of his life. I know I’m not gonna make friends by saying this, but you gotta think from the perspective of the ex-druggie who may be trying to turn his life around but the government keeps taking huge chunks of his income to pay for kids that he isn’t a father to except biologically.
Its the same thing with what I was saying earlier - most “deadbeat” dads are “dead broke” dads.
Also, from everything I’ve read, any $ amount given to the ex-wife directly counts as a gift and not child support unless it has gone through the child support agency. I’ve read plenty of cases where the guy sent extra money thinking it was for the kids, but the courts ruled that it was just a gift and not child support.
“She went to the doctor got lipo with yo money, she walking around looking like Mike-o with yo money”
Another reason why I only date older women who make more money than me.
[quote]kman3b18 wrote:
It’s clearly an imperfect system but in today’s society this is the only practical way of getting things done. Legal action and legislation is how change is made, however slow and tedious the process may be. [/quote]
My point is that it’s not practical when you’re trying to change legislation by using the same legislation you are trying to change. From the government’s point of view, there is no reason to reform something that is seen to be “working”, no matter how screwed up it is; you’ll reach a settlement with your hypothetical estranged wife no matter what, and control of how much she receives is out of your hands anyway once a judge comes into it.
[quote]
So the big question one would have to answer in respone to you is ‘do the ends justify the means’?[/quote]
In light of what I just said, the answer would be “no”, because it doesn’t accomplish anything.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Our court system seems set up to always protect the woman.[/quote]
One one of the links I posted in your Tiger Woods thread mentioned that alimony originally came about because (for religious and social reasons) divorce was once frowned upon, so the husband had to support the wife after a split because she especially was not expected to marry a second time…so it’s pretty much all based on that.
[quote]kman3b18 wrote:
[quote]DJHT wrote:
Kansas City Kid, Again you take childish approach of changing the system, many people do great things at the cost of others. Why do you insist on attacking the fact that not everyone is in their 20’s with the world is their oyster view on things.[/quote]
I really hope you are not raising your kids to have this attitude. As I’ve said, you are so bitter that even I can taste it. No, they may not be special snowflakes as you say, but they should come to this realization on their own if that is the case.[/quote]
I pray they dont end up like you. A selfish self centered ideolistic kid who only cares for himself and if he was a parent would let someone else do it because you cant be bothered due to changing the world. You really take the cake like I said when you grow up you will see things different.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
What I don’t understand if the ex-wife in the story was found to have cheated, how’d she get custody of the kid? Also, there are some obnoxious douchebags in this thread who keep commenting on things they know nothing about. The patience of some posters could only have come about from raising children.[/quote]
Yes I deal with 5 teenagers so Kansas City kid is no different he speaks like a teenager and thinks like a teenager. Life will deal its own blows to his fragile mind.
Flash Judges dont care any more about infidelity. Drugs, abuse etc is the only thing they take in consideration for custody.
[quote]M@rk wrote:
DJHT, I feel for your situation with your new wife, but a $98,000 debt to child support agency that can never be reduced or forgiven? I would understand how a guy with no career to speak of would go underground to avoid that albatross around his neck for the rest of his life. I know I’m not gonna make friends by saying this, but you gotta think from the perspective of the ex-druggie who may be trying to turn his life around but the government keeps taking huge chunks of his income to pay for kids that he isn’t a father to except biologically.
Its the same thing with what I was saying earlier - most “deadbeat” dads are “dead broke” dads.
Also, from everything I’ve read, any $ amount given to the ex-wife directly counts as a gift and not child support unless it has gone through the child support agency. I’ve read plenty of cases where the guy sent extra money thinking it was for the kids, but the courts ruled that it was just a gift and not child support.
“She went to the doctor got lipo with yo money, she walking around looking like Mike-o with yo money”[/quote]
If my wifes X didnt want the responsibility then relinquish parental rights, he would not do that. He insisted he is there father and demanded to be in there lives and would continually make us go back to court to fight him.
Theory and real world are really different things that guys who post stuff on here need to learn. I was a teenage father who put himself through school and have raised 5 kids, why should I have any empathy for an X addict who refuses to help what so ever in the financial responsibility of being a parent.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
Don’t be too quick to write your father off. It’s all too easy for divorced mother’s to convince their children that their father is a bad person, and a “dead beat”. Just remember there are 2 sides to every story, and there’s alot about life that you won’t understand until your much older.[/quote]
You are right, but now that I’m older than he was with a kid of my own, I think my ‘father’ is more a cocksucker now than I did when I was 3-18 years old.
Some people just suck at life.[/quote]
Totally understand there are 2 sides to the story. but my mom did everything in her power, even giving my father money so i could visit him when i was younger and left all of this choosing up to me. the decision was mine and mine alone, and due to a couple instances i have come to that conclusion that he is a dead beat and POS human being, so be it, he got me here so i guess thats cool lol. My mother even encouraged me to stay in contact with him until said things happened and it was my decision and mine alone.
But i do understand where you are coming from, ive seen many people lose touch with a good parent because either mother or father says the other is a POS in front of kid all the time. I do not agree with that, it should be left up to the kids, especially if they are acting responsible enough to make such a life changing decision. My life has only gotten better.
[quote]kman3b18 wrote:
[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
As far as kman attacking DJ, i think thats a bad idea. The man is has a lot of legitimate posts on this site and he is speaking from experience. Even if for instance youre in law school, it doesnt matter until you practice. Got into an argument with a friend over MY 401K and his only argument was, im in school for business management i know these things.
How about trying to have your 401K managed correctly as a 21 y/o who is just learning about it and figuring it out step by step with real money at stake, other than reading something in a book about a man investing millions of dollars and acting like you know. I dont know it and i can admit that, but its a situation to situation thing.
Apparently this is how DJ situation went, also from this site he seems like a stand up guy, dont go ragging on him being a young father, thats shitty. From what ive gathered communicating with him hes doing very well for himself which is currently well above you and your private school education. I hate when people feel entitled because they go to an expensive school.
As for just giving her the money, makes sense to me. A man has a very slim chance of winning in the court of law against a woman who shelters his children. Court costs, lost wages for being at court, and mental strain all come into account in this situation. See above, my mother didnt want to deal with it and said screw the child support ill take care of them so that we dont have to deal with you and court forever.
To be honest this is a situation where most people dont want to be the one to change it, because well frankly, they wont. and theres too much at stake.
As stated above, my comments may be null because i am young, unmarried, and dont have children. But i have seen this from a childs view which should have some merit. [/quote]
Most of this is more ignorant than what you are trying to make me out to be. I’m sure you read DJHT’s false accusation of what I was trying to say and then sided based on that.
I stated that based on his former situation, yes, it was probably in his best interest to just put up with everything and deal with the system in order to see his kids. My main point was that in this HYPOTHETICAL situation, where one wins 56 million dollars, it is not in the public’s best interest to just settle with your ex-wife (10 years removed!!!), even if it may be in your best interest. The precedent that it sets is far too grave and frankly laughable. I would have fought to the death to not give the bitch a dime, as I see that as the right thing to do and the best thing for society in general. DJHT obviously didn’t see things this way and would have just given the ex 5 million or so just to shut her up, although she was the one that left and deserved none of it.
Would this line of thought cause a lot of trouble? Yes. Would it just be easier to fork over the money? Yes. Would I have done it? No. Far too many people complain about the ‘system’ and ‘injustice’ and whatever buzz word they make up so that they can bitch to their friends, but when put in a situation to do something about it, they turn their backs.
Apparently DJHT, you think that this is the ‘practical’ approach and the ‘adult way’ and I find that line of thought appauling. Maybe you feel like a broken man in regards to this, but don’t put everyone else in that basket. Thank God that many great men (and women) in histroy decided to ACT rather than just see a problem and take your approach of ‘it’s too hard for me individually, I prob won’t make a big difference cuz I’m not that special, what’s the point anyways’. Tell that to people Like MLK Jr., Abe Lincoln, Ghandi, Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi. Obviously there are varying degrees to their accomplishments, but with a ‘why do I have to do the dirty work’ initial line of thinking, these people would have never accomplished anything. Self fulfilling prophecy much?
And another thing FF, how the hell do you base my ‘entitlement’ upon where I go to school? I know nothing about you, but I would be surprised if you did not grow up with more opportunities than me. You clearly know nothing about me but based on my private school I have an automatic sense of entitlement huh? I grew up on the southside of Chicago, went CPS k-12, have a blue collar mom who works 60 hours a week and a blue collar dad who has been out of work for 10 years due to medical problems. If working my ass off and realizing that I was smarter than most everyone around me is entitlement then I guess I’m guilty.
[/quote]
Not gonna lie i didnt read it all, im getting ready to go make bad decision on black wed. But i do understand what you are saying, kind of. I think counting beans said it, but its how you write what you are saying. You really do come across as feeling entitled, and kind of snobby. Maybe youre not, but that is how you are making yourself seem, to me, while making these comments. If you want to change the world for me, thanks dude appreciate it, but i would never risk losing a child to prove a point. You gotta pick you battles.
Also mentioning people like MLK really takes this one out of context to me. he ended up dead, youre not gonna be raising your children from a grave.
also heard a story today about a guy my co worker is friends with. Long story short, his ex wife was a junky and allowed her bf to abuse their children. He spend over $200,000 over 15 years trying to get custody of the children. The week after he got full custody she died of an OD. Way to go legal system, way to go!
[quote]dianab wrote:
WhiteFlash, you don’t lose custody of your kids for cheating. At least not in Canada.
What surprises me most about every thread that pops up in here about divorce is how it seems that in the States the mother always gets full custody of the kids. Joint custody (half time with each parent) is the norm here, and to have it any other way you’d have to prove your ex is a real POS and a danger to the kids.[/quote]
I wouldn’t call it the norm just yet. Especially the joint physical custody your referring to (joint legal custody is not the same thing). And even with joint physical custody there is still child support that has to be paid, usually from the man to the woman. It’s to “equalize the standard of living”. Which is great in theory, but in practice isn’t worth a fuck due to the way various government programs, and taxations work.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]DJHT wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fuck that. This is why I am not concerned about marriage right now. I could get a divorce, win the lottery, and then some chick I haven’t been with in years can come along and take a good chunk of it? Yeah, the system sucks ass and seems to be designed against the average male as if women can’t take care of themselves in the year 2010.
None of that sounds right. If you have kids, take care of those kids. Hell, why doesn’t the guy have custody of the kids if he is making so much more than the wife?
How does the woman deserve your paycheck after you both separate and what is keeping the courts from allowing this to carry over in all circumstances?
So, if a couple gets divorced when they both earn 30K a year, the guy goes on to become a heart surgeon, the ex-wife now deserves a pay increase herself because they had kids?
Why?
Take your kids and leave her where she stands.
I could see if she paid for his schooling or helped him build a business…but if he did it on his own, why does she deserve anything just to keep her quiet?
I’ve asked this before, but what are the major benefits of the actual marriage certificate if you can get screwed like this even if SHE cheats on YOU?[/quote]
Sorry X but this is the way it is, I was making 30 K as a respiratory therapist and then went on to get my masters in Nursing. My X went from making the same percentage of my gross not net GROSS yearly income for both. When I got divorced she was given managing conservatory parent (I did nothing wrong but want the divorce) and I was ordered to pay child support. The mothers have to crack addict hookers with jail time before a judge will say she is unfit. This of course is a generalization I know there are many stories to the contrary, but as a 90% general rule.
Is this right? No, but it is what it is, now most judges are making joint managing conservatory upon divorce this way the CS is different.
Here is a kicker, I paid CS, paid medical insurance, paid for half of everything school lunches supplies, soccer etc. and I got my kids every week 3 days a week. She also remarried a paramedic. Now why did I do that, so I could get my kids three days a week. If I had not done this and pay out the nose then I would have the standard visitations of every other weekend. I love my kids and would do anything to be part of there lives.
I do not have the resources or the time to battle wind mills. [/quote]
Then I probably won’t be getting married. I have heard way too many horror stories about this and ALL of them involve the guy getting screwed over even after the wife cheated on him first.
Automatically giving the woman custody of kids sounds like something left over from the 1950’s. I had a coworker who I overheard arguing with her ex-husband that if he didn’t come pick up the kids now (because she had them but needed to run an errand) that she would do all she could to prevent him from seeing the kids again in court.
Yes, she really used that threat while the husband was at work himself.
That sucks and I won’t be a part of it because I would rather simply not get married than have my ass handed to me later even SHE screws up.
I understand that there are nice marriages out there, but even most of them seem delusional in that they seem to think they will never get divorced or ever have to worry about it.
I would imagine most people who divorced after ten years of marriage thought the same thing at the start of it.
Your stance is that we should give in because fighting the system is pointless…and you may be right…until we fight the system by not playing the game to start with.
[/quote]
Marry a conservative Catholic woman, never get rid of her even if you wanted to.
[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
[quote]dianab wrote:
WhiteFlash, you don’t lose custody of your kids for cheating. At least not in Canada.
What surprises me most about every thread that pops up in here about divorce is how it seems that in the States the mother always gets full custody of the kids. Joint custody (half time with each parent) is the norm here, and to have it any other way you’d have to prove your ex is a real POS and a danger to the kids.[/quote]
I wouldn’t call it the norm just yet. Especially the joint physical custody your referring to (joint legal custody is not the same thing). And even with joint physical custody there is still child support that has to be paid, usually from the man to the woman. It’s to “equalize the standard of living”. Which is great in theory, but in practice isn’t worth a fuck due to the way various government programs, and taxations work.[/quote]
hmm maybe in the ROC regarding joint custody. My divorce was made final here in QC. Any support payments were to be based upon the differences in salary between myself and my ex. I had the lessor salary, and was able to rig the books (self employed) to make it show that my earnings were equal to his. This way neither of us had to pay support. Joint custody was assumed, and that is what we wanted so it went fine. I do have a friend who sees his son less than 50% of the time (his choice due to work schedules) and he pays based on salary and time he has his son compared to her. I also know a woman who made more than her ex and has to pay him child support based on the same criteria. I think that divorce laws are pretty fair here, in my experience anyways, but I did have a good lawyer to help through the system and my ex and I were on good terms. My bf (from the US) almost got royally fucked over in his divorce until the day he was supposed to sign an agreement and he wised up and hired a shark of a lawyer. His ex is a bitter entitled bitch though.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Marry a conservative Catholic woman, never get rid of her even if you wanted to.
[/quote]
Then when she cheats and divorces her 19342nd husband you can claim she wasn’t really a Catholic.
Must you shit in every thread? We know you’re the poster boy for Catholicism, leave it in PWI.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Marry a conservative Catholic woman, never get rid of her even if you wanted to.
[/quote]
Then when she cheats and divorces her 19342nd husband you can claim she wasn’t really a Catholic.
Must you shit in every thread? We know you’re the poster boy for Catholicism, leave it in PWI.[/quote]
x2
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Marry a conservative Catholic woman, never get rid of her even if you wanted to.
[/quote]
Then when she cheats and divorces her 19342nd husband you can claim she wasn’t really a Catholic.
Must you shit in every thread? We know you’re the poster boy for Catholicism, leave it in PWI.[/quote]
You can’t divorce in the Catholic Church. Sometimes I question whether if you’re joking sometimes.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Marry a conservative Catholic woman, never get rid of her even if you wanted to.
[/quote]
Then when she cheats and divorces her 19342nd husband you can claim she wasn’t really a Catholic.
Must you shit in every thread? We know you’re the poster boy for Catholicism, leave it in PWI.[/quote]
You can’t divorce in the Catholic Church. Sometimes I question whether if you’re joking sometimes.[/quote]
uh, sure you can. I married a catholic. We got divorced. This province is full of divorced catholics.
Just because the religion doesn’t recognize it, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
[quote]dianab wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Marry a conservative Catholic woman, never get rid of her even if you wanted to.
[/quote]
Then when she cheats and divorces her 19342nd husband you can claim she wasn’t really a Catholic.
Must you shit in every thread? We know you’re the poster boy for Catholicism, leave it in PWI.[/quote]
You can’t divorce in the Catholic Church. Sometimes I question whether if you’re joking sometimes.[/quote]
uh, sure you can. I married a catholic. We got divorced. This province is full of divorced catholics.
Just because the religion doesn’t recognize it, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.[/quote]
No you can’t divorce in the Catholic Church, they don’t have the option in Canon Law.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]dianab wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Marry a conservative Catholic woman, never get rid of her even if you wanted to.
[/quote]
Then when she cheats and divorces her 19342nd husband you can claim she wasn’t really a Catholic.
Must you shit in every thread? We know you’re the poster boy for Catholicism, leave it in PWI.[/quote]
You can’t divorce in the Catholic Church. Sometimes I question whether if you’re joking sometimes.[/quote]
uh, sure you can. I married a catholic. We got divorced. This province is full of divorced catholics.
Just because the religion doesn’t recognize it, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.[/quote]
No you can’t divorce in the Catholic Church, they don’t have the option in Canon Law.[/quote]
You have to believe in that for it to work. I believe in my divorce decree, so does my catholic born ex-husband.
But good luck with that!