Ex-Military First Cycle Plan

Pharma / TRT
1

Hello everyone. I have been an avid reader of this forum for a little over a year and now that my enlistment contract is up I plan on stepping up to the plate and taking my training to the next level. Im currently about to turn 22 in Aug and have been training for just under 4 years, with 3 of that being serious. I started out in the military before basic @ 6’2" 150 lbs and Im currently sitting around 205lbs @ 12.5 % BF.

I train 2 weeks of Max-OT and then do 2 weeks of High Intensity High Volume training just to switch it up. I currently eat every 3 hours, and keep my protien high, along with a moderate intake of carbs and fats. 8 hours of sleep is a must for me to get the most out of my next training session so that means I dont drink and rarely go out for nightlife.

I recently got some bloodwork done as a baseline and found out that I must have high estrogen/low test as the numbers didnt add up and I wish to reverse this. the numbers are as follows with my number first and the ranges in quotes next to them (any insight or comments would be appreciated):

LH: 7.8mIU/mL “1.7-8.6 mIU/mL”
ESTRADIOL: 38.4 pg/mL “7.6-42.6 mIU/mL”
Test Total: 336 “250-1100 ng/dL”
Free Test %: 2.37 “1.5-2.2 pg/mL”
Testos free: 79.6 “35-155 pg/mL”
Estrogen: <50 pg/ml

Now that I am moving beyond the military and its drug tests, I would like to actually compete in a bodybuilding show by next summer. I will be a full-time student and on a all-you-can-eat meal plan so calories wont be a problem so I figured this would be the perfect time to gain some serious mass so I can have something to work with once I feel I have enough mass to step out onto a stage. However I would like to gain quality mass and not alot of water weight if thats possible.

I have been researching many different compounds and have found that most people tend to just recommend a test and one other tab or injectable max for your first cycle. So I am thinking of starting this:

W 1-12 Test E 500 mg (split 250 Mon and 250 Thursday)
W 1-10 Deca 200 mg (Split with my test)(also considering EQ or Winstrol if some of the vets think it is a better choice)
W 1-14 Nolva 20mg/d

PCT: start on week 15 (3 weeks after last test e shot)
300,100,100,100,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50…etc for 3 weeks
continue to take 20mg/d of nolva and taper off that last week

It seems I have small signs of gyno along with puffy nipples from possibly puberty or some trib I took about 8 months ago. so gyno is a worry for me. judging from my blood work Im guessing its more from the estrogen build up?

Please guide me in the right direction if you think I am going in the wroing direction with anything, I am here to learn! Thanks in advance guys!!

2

Just stick with test.

3

Learn the difference between AIs and SERMs

4

[quote]tampamuscle wrote:
I currently eat every 3 hours, and keep my protien high, along with a moderate intake of carbs and fats. 8 hours of sleep is a must for me to get the most out of my next training session so that means I dont drink and rarely go out for nightlife.[/quote]
Airforce?

Unless you have a really good reason for wanting to run it, you should just scrap the nandrolone.

5

So I’m guessing deca isn’t a good choice for a first cycle?

And I know the difference between between the serm’s and ai’s I was just told it was better to run both during PCT. I would love to get my hands on some femera or arimidex but I must be looking in the wrong places. I’m not going to start this until I have everything I need. I don’t plan on doing this halfass.

And yes I’m air force :stuck_out_tongue:

6

One of the vets will probably chime in (as BONEZ already has) if I’m off, but based on what I know about Deca there isn’t much point in adding it to a cycle unless you’ve got joint issues. Nandrolone is easily one of the most suppressive steroids out there. I’ve never run it, but it seems that it is probably more suppressive than Trenbolone (which I have ran). At minimum, if you do run it, you need to keep a dopamine agonist on hand. Some people even choose to run one from the beginning regardless.

7

Ok, I guess I will wait on the deca for now. No need to complicate things.

Im ust worried about the possible estrogen buildup and since my test is so low to begin with for my age that my body will have trouble recovering during PCT. A friend suggested HCG at the beginning of PCT.

As far as SERMS and AI’s go would it be beneficial to run one or the other/both during a cycle AND PCT? or just run say a SERM and wait to combine both during PCT?

I appreciate the insight guys, being new to all this there is alot to learn and it can be kinda intimidating

8

and what would an example of a dopamine agonist be? I have never heard of them before…

Im guessing it is something to restore your sex drive/natural test production?

9

and what would an example of a dopamine agonist be? I have never heard of them before…

Im guessing it is something to restore your sex drive/natural test production?

10

Run hCG on cycle, not post. It will keep your balls from shrinking and speed up recovery. 250iu ED-E4D seems to be the norm. I usually run it E3D.

An AI is used on cycle to control estrogen. Now that AI’s are widely available, SERMs on-cycle are no longer recommended. Save that for PCT.

11

[quote]jMill2 wrote:
Run hCG on cycle, not post. It will keep your balls from shrinking and speed up recovery. 250iu ED-E4D seems to be the norm. I usually run it E3D.

An AI is used on cycle to control estrogen. Now that AI’s are widely available, SERMs on-cycle are no longer recommended. Save that for PCT.[/quote]

thanks for the info, From what I had saw hCG was used mainly as something to kick start your PCT. I will defly be reading up on that. Are there any possible sides from using hCG all the way through?

Since I probly have a better chance of gyno related sides, would it be wise to start the cycle off with an AI thats more mild like Arimidex or Aromasin and leave Letro for PCT or if I start to show signs of gyno dispite taking one of the two from the begining?

I plan on saving the SERMs for PCT as previously suggested now. Thanks for the input, keep it rolling in!

12

[quote]tampamuscle wrote:

[quote]jMill2 wrote:
Run hCG on cycle, not post. It will keep your balls from shrinking and speed up recovery. 250iu ED-E4D seems to be the norm. I usually run it E3D.

An AI is used on cycle to control estrogen. Now that AI’s are widely available, SERMs on-cycle are no longer recommended. Save that for PCT.[/quote]

thanks for the info, From what I had saw hCG was used mainly as something to kick start your PCT. I will defly be reading up on that. Are there any possible sides from using hCG all the way through?

Since I probly have a better chance of gyno related sides, would it be wise to start the cycle off with an AI thats more mild like Arimidex or Aromasin and leave Letro for PCT or if I start to show signs of gyno dispite taking one of the two from the begining?

I plan on saving the SERMs for PCT as previously suggested now. Thanks for the input, keep it rolling in![/quote]
In my opinion, hCG during PCT is an outdated concept as hCG itself is suppressive. Also it makes no sense to me to wait until your balls are already shrunk, and then try to “shock” them back. Seems much more logical to not let them lose mass in the first place.

As for which AI to use, you can really use any of them, just be careful with the dosage. I personally don’t use an AI in PCT and wouldn’t be much help there.

13

I see what your saying about hCG and it makes sence. why try and fix a problem when it would be easier to prevent?? I have 2 online sources for the AI’s and test I got from a friend but I am having a hard time tracking the stuff down for the prices I keep finding in other threads :confused: doesnt help since all the sites look like rip offs anyways haha

Anyboby got any input on my test levels? I had a friend look at them and he says that doesnt look anything like what a 22 yr olds should look like. My big concern like I said is starting just a test cycle and my body coming out even lower than it already is, or would the pct hopefully bring it up to a normal functioning range for my age?

14

hmmm… My total test (before my current cycle) was at 742. Like double yours. After my M-Drol cycle(SD) my total test was at 346… It took me like 2 months to get my total test to climb back up-my PCT was pathetic haha Inhibit E for 4 weeks.

Point is, I’m no expert, quite new to AAS also, but a 20-25yr old should have total test levels of like 500+ I would think. This is just my thoughts maybe not fact. Im going on 22yrs old. Hope this doesnt freak you out too much

Also-if your PCT goes well and its timed out right there’s no reason really why you wouldnt make at least near a 100% recovery after only 10wks on a first run. Cant say how long it could take, 1-2 months who knows-also something I’ve read around, I’m not a doctor.

15

UPDATE

Just got my second labs in…a little better but still nowhere near what I think they should be. These were done after fasting for 12 hours.

TSH SENSITIVE: 1.90 “.34-4.82” mIU/ML
Glucose: 94 “74-106” MG/DL
Test Total: 482 “250-1100” ng/dL
Free Test %: 2.40 “1.5-2.2”
Testro Free: 115.5 “35-155.0” pg/mL

As you can see these are really no better than the last tests except for a minor increase in total and free % since these were done right after I woke up from a 8 hour sleep I doubt thier validity since I am still feeling down and out.

Any suggestions?

16

I say AI on cycle, SERM post cycle and on hand in case you need it on cycle to stop any acute problems.

Really you need both

If you have a doctor which is willing to check your estrogen levels to keep them normal so you can adjust your adex dose to suit…even better

17

Yeah my doctor didnt check for my estrogen levels this time even though I asked him to, once again, your tax dollars going towards incompetent doctors :confused: …

Even though my levels are low, the one estrogen array I did get showed a very high level and since I also have a slight case of gyno and feel sluggish and like to sleep for long periods I almost believe that it is more of the higher estrogen levels than my test because I have a free test % that is pretty good.

Im out of the military in a month, so finding a civilian doctor will be at the top of my to-do list.

Im also pondering taking a smaller dose of an AI before my cycle to see if it improves things, anyone ever tried that? what are the pros and cons if any? Have you ever heard of anyone on long term estrogen control even off cycle??

18

Your estrogen will probably drop too low and remove too much fluid from your joints causing joint pain.

If you use a very low dose adex you may look leaner and raise test, but get rid of gyne no sorry mate I highly doubt it.

Letrozole…possibly get rid of gyno I have read some people say it has worked but I dunno I have my doubts especially old gyno, and that stuff is real strong, youd probably have to break up tablets in quarters and might still be too strong off cycle.

19

Yeah I got some tips from another thread that I should cut out my milk and dairy and try to modify my diet a bit by including more salt (iodine) and vit D so I will be trying that and hopefully that will solve my estrogen issues so I can get more of a normal reading before I start this cycle in Sept.

Any other tips on how I could possibly raise my levels naturally without any meds? I know sleep and diet are the biggies but is there anything else I could do to drop my estrogen naturally? My last test said I was just under 500 so Im guessing thats still bad but better than before.

also looking into adrenal fatigue…