first post here. great forum. learned a ton. thanks guys!
I’ve been on ‘natural testosterone boosters’ like tribulus terrestris and longjack (lj100) for about 1 year now. been taking 5 days on 2 days off or 3 weeks on 1 week off…
prior to using these natural boosters I tested about 460 for total test (last year)
last month I did a new blood test and I picked up the results couple of days ago.
total testosterone 284(!!), SHBG 17.5, LH 6.8(!)
is it possible that I have been shut down from the tongkat/longjack and tribulus after running them for so long?
Now, last week prior to knowing the results I had 2 shots of Test Cyp @ 200mg each and some Nolva (as I was preparing to start a Test Cycle)
So after these testosterone results, I’m not sure what to do…
Continue with the planned 10 week 400mg/week Test Cyp Cycle and run HCG in parallel @ 500iu/week + Nolva (HCG to keep balls running)
OR stop/delay the Test shots and do just some PCT like some HCG shots + Nolva…
I’m doing another complete blood test (20 tests) and seeing an urologist to check my balls and see if they are alright and why they are not producing… I don’t feel lumps, they don’t hurt, I don’t pee blood etc but I am concerned…
If it’s a side effect of the ‘natural supplement’ i guess that’s fine and i should have been more careful with it… but i never knew or never imagined that a natural plant/herb can shut me off… esp since my LH level seems good and me running the supplements prior to that blood test… (maybe my body just got desensitized to them!?)
Anyway guys… If you have any experience with this, advice or suggestion I’m all years.
I think this is the right place to find some of the most knowledgeable people I could ever find on the subject so thanks a lot.
Cheers!
Ben
tribulus is garbage lmao… so is the other one.
if I were you, I would finish the cycle with an AI and run pct… you will likely be requiring future cycles and eventually TRT, but hey… could be worse right?
I keep hearing similar feedback about trib man. All those damn herbs that promote a tiny increase in LH mess with people over long time. Vitamin D, Zinc, magnesium are probably the best. Ai and Daa with decent breaks will be fine. Taking tribulus will not make your body anabolic. If you could eat a magic plant to make you a man everyone would do it. Horny goat weed is probably as close as youll get and honestly youll just be popping boners, and the increased libido helps with testosterone.
interesting feedback. thanks!
Walkway - what do you have in mind for AI? i’m trying to get some aromasin, just have Nolva & Proviron right now. was thinking to skip on Clomid since I’m seeing a few people and studies saying Nolva is superior. I wanna have 600-800 test levels for life man… TRT?
Mennotinblack - what is DAA? I think these herbs work a bit in the beginning but then level off… same for HGW… u can get a bigger boner but the libido increase is not really real somehow… and yeah gonna start on some Vit D + Vit E… D should help test, E should help leydig cells
[quote]sindudar wrote:
interesting feedback. thanks!
Walkway - what do you have in mind for AI? i’m trying to get some aromasin, just have Nolva & Proviron right now. was thinking to skip on Clomid since I’m seeing a few people and studies saying Nolva is superior. I wanna have 600-800 test levels for life man… TRT?
[/quote]
aromasin has a half life of 9 hours in men, and must be taken with fat to increase oral bioavailability.
adex or letro would be better IMO, adex has a half life of 2 days in men and letro has better bioavailability than aromasin
IIRC, clomid increases prolactin in males…
if you want high test for life, trt will most likely be the only way to achieve it
Despite the bullshit marketing, tribulus, longjack, tongkat ali, and the stuff Mike Mahler is selling are worthless if you are looking for steroid-like results. It’s not the supplements which are worthless, it’s the dishonest marketing lies.
There’s not enough information in your initial post to give any kind of proper advice. What is your age? What is your diet like? Any rapid changes in body weight over the last year? Any drastic changes in job stress, or life stress in general?
I don’t see any comparison of free test levels. Also, what time of day were the two tests taken? Were they both taken in a fasted state?
Were you tested for Vitamin D levels? There is a condition known as candidiasis - which is pretty much a yeast infection in your gut - that will block absorption of oral D3.
[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
I keep hearing similar feedback about trib man. All those damn herbs that promote a tiny increase in LH mess with people over long time. If you could eat a magic plant to make you a man everyone would do it. [/quote]
Oh you eat it.
No wonder I never got results.
Superdosing vitamin e can lower testosterone. And d aspartic acid daa is an amino acid the body uses to produce testosterone. It acts on the pituitary and cAMP sites… But i wont get into that. The first day you may feel a bout of energy, and your nuts will surely hang at their bottum. This was my experience, and studies and bloodwork have spoke well for it if not abused.
[quote]drunkpig wrote:
There’s not enough information in your initial post to give any kind of proper advice. What is your age? What is your diet like? Any rapid changes in body weight over the last year? Any drastic changes in job stress, or life stress in general?
I don’t see any comparison of free test levels. Also, what time of day were the two tests taken? Were they both taken in a fasted state?
Were you tested for Vitamin D levels? There is a condition known as candidiasis - which is pretty much a yeast infection in your gut - that will block absorption of oral D3. [/quote]
drunkpig - good questions bro!
I’m 27. Diet is pretty much paleo with some exceptions.
I did gain and feel good initially on the trib/lJ… did this tapoutxt.com training for a while which uses high volume resistance bands, cardio… body responded…
job is more stressful yes… free test as a % was similar but obviously on 2nd test it came really low because of total test being lower… time of day was around 10am for 2nd one so earlier than the first one… None was in a fasted state… is that important for test?
Vitamin D levels - tests should be coming today bro… Candidiasis is a bitch… I used to have that. That’s why I went Paleo… Haven’t seen episodes in years though. It blocks vitamin D absorption you say ? some people recommend vitamin D + probiotics to cure it though?!
What do you recommend for candida? maybe a chitin blocker/inhibitor?
thanks!
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Vitamin-E.aspx
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/FramelessPages/Articles/vitamine.html
There are some sources discussing the topic for the vitamin e lowering testosterone if you wanted them. I do get some through a multi though.
got results on some more blood work. not looking rosy: bad ldl/hdl profile, high estradiol, high cortisol, low vit d are the highlights.
blood test was done after 2 shots of 200 test cyp (2nd shot was Thur, test was Sat Morning)
doc (uro) wants me to stop cycle after 3 x 200 test cyp shot (1.5 weeks, 600 mg total) wait 15 days to clear it up do more blood work and speak to endo… and let endo decide what’s right… if TRT, cycles, etc
do you guys think I need PCT at this stage or I will do fine for 15-20 days until new test and endocrinology visit?
uro was quite against me putting any more substances or suppressing anything else at this point… so he was saying no tamoxifen but i don’t know if he knows what he’s talking about… i’m willing to play along to find the right solution though…
i’ll work on getting a kick ass diet with estrogen inhibitors and meditate more until the next test and see if that changes things :-s
any feedback on results or opinions?
thanks!
Your doctor is an idiot. Well look who is right yet again with the vitamin D. Supplement with vitamin D bro, magnesium, and zinc. Maybe get some vitamin C and pes erase (or other estrogen control/cortisol reducing compound-illegal or legal whichever you prefer- i see you already made a note about it… but pes erase is NOT suppressive and can also help with cortisol). Cholesterol is going to be based off what you eat.
You need a clean diet and need to incorporate some cardio to raise your HDL and lower your LDL. DO NOT… I REPEAT… DO NOT… take high dose 6-bromo for estrogen or high dose ATD for estrogen- at high doses, these convert and can shut you down. You didn’t specify what type of estrogen inhibitors. Guys at gnc and other supplement stores will try to sell you anything. I would get some pct. Fuck the endo’s man.
So many of these doctors are clueless. The doctors have medical advice, which I and most on here do not have, but they are your means to an end. They have no experience or real knowledge outside of medical journals where very few studies are printed about these topics. The doctor works for you. While I should not advise you to disobey your doctor, I am going to make it clear that you need tamoxifen or clomid asap. Your testosterone will come back low (also related to the low vitamin D) when everything clears out.
Then he will probably try to retest you once or twice to make sure it stays low before TRT. If you want yourself to recover, give it like a year where you push yourself, diet right, take those supplements I describe, and sleep adequately, try both having sex and abstaining, etc. The positive about having high estrogen is that there is hope for that testosterone level if you get that under control. Excess prolactin can be bad too, so beware of that for the next test. AI+Serm+(if high prolactin-caber).
good thoughts Mennotinblack… you would stop cycle and go on the supps PCT (3 weeks nolva?) or continue with test cycle AIs HCG etc and do proper PCT at the end? thanks
Were you taking an AI while taking your injections? If so, the ldl/hdl numbers could be skewed as AI’s have a negative effect on ldl/hdl profiles.
I made the mistake of going in for a physical after taking adex that morning. Bloodwork came back and the doc wanted to put me on statins. LOL.
no AIs… my AI plan was Nolva Proviron starting week 3…cycle was 2 x 200mg/week test no stack.
will keep that in mind drunkpig 
I would stop and start pct sooner than later. I use nolva for 4 weeks, but not any longer. 3 will be just fine. You can also do clomid. But if you compete there are of course other things to consider. I am sitting at 215 pretty lean and I haven’t cycled anything in well over a year.
Moderate doses of steroids cycled for a couple months when androgen receptors are fresh works beautifully. But I would abstain from all those “natural” supplements or test boosters. Give it time and give yourself the equipment it needs to produce testosterone. After a year or 2, no need to rush, get with an endo, get some bloodwork, and then evaluate your options. Judge it off the bloodwork, but also how you feel and your performance, in the gym and out. Tell tail signs your testosterone has re risen is having morning wood.
If you have a decent level of testosterone then, maybe start cycling, but always recover to that point and sit there for a while. But get that vitamin D level sorted out. It seems testosterone depletes it (and I have no god damn idea why or a source but it seems 75 percent of the people complaining have low vitamin D).
You need to know what your body works with (testosterone wise) when it is healthy. I don’t know your stats or if you posted them anywhere, but if you shave off body fat testosterone should rise.
Then when you introduce more fats and carbs it should increase more (low fat and low carb diets make the body produce less testoserone-but if you have fat stored on you it does too… so lose lose situation- delicate balance is key). High protein diets can also cause the body to produce less unless it is all metabolized. More leg hair can also be a good sign.
Anyways, thats my advice. Several studies have shown that if healthy males recover from a steroid cycle, their testosterone levels will be elevated for a while. The theory is that the balls essentially got a break. So keep yourself healthy first, and build some quality muscle the right way.