Evolution vs. Creation

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
323

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
Why should 80% of the people that believe in God in this country have completly change for the rest? You need to do a little research on what this country was founded on in the first place.
[/quote]

Thank you for solidifying how blind/closed minded/shelterd/ill-informed you truly are. This country was founded on the raping and genocied of an entire race. Why the fuck do you think there are no Native Americans left? You’re an absolute moron to think that this country was founded on anything good. It was found on pure evil.

324

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
juerocalvo wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Sorry sport, just because you believe it doesn’t make it true.

You mean, just because there is evidence that doesn’t make it true?

Produce evidence that there are intermediate species or shut up and admit you are wrong.

You have already heard the evidence.

I’ll take that as a no.

Several people have posted evidence. You just ignore it and repeat that “there is no evidence.”

Sorry, but there is no natrual or fossil evidence of a missing link. Theories about these links don’t count as eveidence.

One more time-

transitional fossils:

fossils showing evolution of hominids:

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html

observed instances of macroeveolution-instances of new species evolving from other species:

These are just compilations of evidence and they are by no means a complete list of all fossils or speciation events. Also those links only touch upon fossil evidence, there is much more evidence out there.

Again you repeat that there is no evidence of evolution but if you will open your eyes you will see that it is abundant.

You see, this is what I’m talking about.

Find a piece of bone; say it’s 2 millions years old (when there currently are no reliable measures that can validate that time frame) say it looks like a chimp and a man, so it’s Homo-ape-ass, the new discovered species. They say this not based on DNA or any valid measure, it’s just done on structure. So this is again AN ASSUMPTION1
[/quote]

You say that there is no reliable way of dating fossils. That is incorrect. Also how is an analysis of the bone structure not a valid way to analyze fossils? When you look at the transitional forms in the fossils of all vertebrates the evidence of evolution is even more astounding. Pretty much your only argument seems to be that since the fossil record cannot be complete, all fossil evidence must be ignored. That is just plain silly.

I would like to ask: what is your specific theory on the origins of life, and how does an analysis of the fossil record support your theory?

Obviously you didn’t read the observed incidences of speciation link. Every example mentioned fit within the accepted scientific definition of a species. I’m sure you will dismiss and ignore this evidence too, but the fact remains- the evidence is there.

Explain this statement, it makes no sense whatsoever.

There is a whole world of difference. Creationists have yet to propose an actual testable theory. They have also made no attempt to prove their theory with evidence.

325

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
Here is a perfect example of how an evolutionist has to resort to direct verbal attack to get their point across. It is also a stratedy that people use in an argument when they are wrong and have to start personally disrespecting someone.

Keep it up man, you sound really intelligent.

Verbal attack? Thats nothing compared to the flood of religious propaganda that fills and brain washes the word the world. You sir are included in that.

Swearing shows lack of intelligence? Thats news to me. If that was the case some of the brightest people on the planet would be considered “dumb,” according to your perspective. And don’t flatter yourself bub, it wasn’t directed towards you but I guess that goes along with your elitist attitude.

If I want to take a religion class I will take it. I dont need it shoved down my throat when I’m studying DNA. That little sticker is an invasion of my freedom of choice. I choose to have absolutley NOTHING to do with religion yet I’m taking a science class and I see a sticker that was forced on there by religious cultists? Fuck that. Its bad enough our money has the word god on it. We wont even touch on those disgusting billboards that churches now have “Find God, He Saves,” and other propaganda bullshit. If there was EVER a sign that read “Evolution is the key,” churches would be up in arms about it and demand it be taken down. Talk about an elitist attitude!?!

I used to be catholic until I realized it was complete bullshit and nothing more than a money making corporation.

Remember, religion has killed more people than every disease combined. You dont believe me, just ask the Native Americans, Jews and Africans!

You are wrong. Religion has not killed people. People not following the Bible and God’d word has killed people.

Also, I’m not a Catholic. I simply go off what the Bible says. So, don’t bring Catholics into this conversion as a means of going against me when I am not a Catholic in the first place.

Also, you have some issues if you think a little sticker on a book is an invasion of your freedom of choice. How can you get that angry over a sticker?

Why should 80% of the people that believe in God in this country have completly change for the rest? You need to do a little research on what this country was founded on in the first place.

[/quote]

I believe P.G.A. is right God did not kill people. Over the course of history many bad people said they were doing God?s work.

326

vroom,

I was raised and taught evolution since grade school. I grew up believing that we were descendents of primates and that the earth is “billions” of years old. Yet, I simply could not get myself to “buy” it. To many holes. To much doubt. I attended church when I was young because it was a “family” event every Sunday. I hated going to church.

It wasn’t until a few years ago that I truly realized what the logical choice was. No, I’ve never attended Bible school. In fact, I don’t even attend church regularly. No, I don’t have a masters degree in human evolution either. I did however, get taught more evolution through grade school and all the way into college. I still don’t buy into human evolution. To me the Bible makes the most sense. I have heard both sides, probably more human evolution than anything. The Bible just simply has to many correct predictions in world history and explanations for life in general. There are an incredible amount of symbols, metaphors, and “old ways” of talking that does sound funny to us today. But if you really try to seek the answers, I promise to you, it makes perfect sense. People that bad mouth the Bible read a few scriptures, and completely right it off that it’s a bunch of old philosphical nonsense. You have to study the meanings and metaphors and symbols to find the true meaning. God says to “seek and you shall find”.

327

[quote]vroom wrote:
Every religion has been persecuted.

However, last time I checked, African and Native American are not religions.

You’ve missed the point Tri. People who are not of the same religion as another have often been slaughtered or otherwise discounted due to this fact.

Persecution due to religion is another problem. A big one, but a different one.[/quote]

He specifically paired Jews with Native Americans and Africans. I hardly see the relation between all three. Should we destroy Rome for what they did to the Catholics?

It has happened to everyone. What does that have to do with discrediting creation? People died in the process of evolution, survival of the fittest?

Hell, more living things died in the process of evolution than in the name of disease AND religion combined!

And couldn’t one see that we are living evolution right now? Science is merely slowing it down. Evolution still occurs, its not something that happened and stopped.

This can be seen in the occurance of the Palmeris Longus. A wrist flexor that is once thought to help us grip that is arguably disappearing from human anatomy.

328

Tri,

You are being blind on purpose today maybe?

329

A God less way of thinking:

It’s possible that if someone threw a grenade into a junk yard every second for and infinate amount of time, it’s possible that we would get a perfect working 747 with every little bolt aligned.

A person who does believe in God:

There is so much incredible design in our bodies and every aspect of this planet for it to just have happened by chaos. Chaos does not bring any intelligent design, let alone ours.

330

tuff,

All you are doing is unfuriating people and getting them to reject all that you stand for.

You realize that right?

Why don’t you try having a discussion about something instead of preaching to those that don’t want to be preached to.

Chump.

331

[quote]vroom wrote:
tuff,

All you are doing is unfuriating people and getting them to reject all that you stand for.

You realize that right?

Why don’t you try having a discussion about something instead of preaching to those that don’t want to be preached to.

Chump.[/quote]

Let him keep going. Even god can’t save him from the train wreck he’s created for himself.

332

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
A God less way of thinking:

It’s possible that if someone threw a grenade into a junk yard every second for and infinate amount of time, it’s possible that we would get a perfect working 747 with every little bolt aligned.

A person who does believe in God:

There is so much incredible design in our bodies and every aspect of this planet for it to just have happened by chaos. Chaos does not bring any intelligent design, let alone ours.[/quote]

Horrible analogy. This assumes that human beings are “perfect” and that we were “meant” to be exactly how we are. Humans are not “the way”, but are just “a way” if you understand what I’m saying.

And that un-intelligent design link is actually a very good argument against intelligent design. I suggest you go back and click on it if you haven’t.

333

[quote]JonP wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
A God less way of thinking:

It’s possible that if someone threw a grenade into a junk yard every second for and infinate amount of time, it’s possible that we would get a perfect working 747 with every little bolt aligned.

A person who does believe in God:

There is so much incredible design in our bodies and every aspect of this planet for it to just have happened by chaos. Chaos does not bring any intelligent design, let alone ours.

Horrible analogy. This assumes that human beings are “perfect” and that we were “meant” to be exactly how we are. Humans are not “the way”, but are just “a way” if you understand what I’m saying.

And that un-intelligent design link is actually a very good argument against intelligent design. I suggest you go back and click on it if you haven’t.

[/quote]

By stating “un-intelligent design”, are you admitting that we have a “designer” but he has made errors?

334

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
vroom wrote:
tuff,

All you are doing is unfuriating people and getting them to reject all that you stand for.

You realize that right?

Why don’t you try having a discussion about something instead of preaching to those that don’t want to be preached to.

Chump.

Let him keep going. Even god can’t save him from the train wreck he’s created for himself.[/quote]

Oh no!! I’ve created a train wreck on the internet with a bunch of people I have never met and will never meet. I’m in for it now!!

Please!! I have had this last week as spare time because I am on paid family leave and I’m at home the whole time.

How do you have sooooooo much time on your hands to post and try to prove someone wrong you have never even met? What is it that you do all day?

335

[quote]vroom wrote:
tuff,

All you are doing is unfuriating people and getting them to reject all that you stand for.

You realize that right?

Why don’t you try having a discussion about something instead of preaching to those that don’t want to be preached to.

Chump.[/quote]

If any of you that are true Christians out there that have been regularly reading this thread, have I made you reject anything? Please post and let us know.

336

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
A God less way of thinking:

It’s possible that if someone threw a grenade into a junk yard every second for and infinate amount of time, it’s possible that we would get a perfect working 747 with every little bolt aligned.

[/quote]

Someone else already used that garbage analogy. It does not apply to evolution because evolution is actually an ordered, not a random process. ALthough random mutation is a part of evolution the process itself is a series of orderly interactions. Likening evolution to a series of independent, random events shows that you have a fundamental ignorance of how evolution works.

[quote]
A person who does believe in God:

There is so much incredible design in our bodies and every aspect of this planet for it to just have happened by chaos. Chaos does not bring any intelligent design, let alone ours.[/quote]

What part of this statement has ANYTHING to do with whether or not a person believes in God? The fact that you bring God into it just shows that your opposition to evolution is not rooted in science but instead in religious/philosophical objections.

As to the validity of the assertion itself, evolution is not a truly random process. It may not be guided by a “higher intelligence”, but it is definitely not random in the sense that evolution follows certain orderly, predictable rules.

As for the statement that “chaos does not bring any intelligent design”-if you are saying that an ordered system can not arise from an unguided process, that is just false. There are endless examples of this in teh physical world.

337

[quote]juerocalvo wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
As for the statement that “chaos does not bring any intelligent design”-if you are saying that an ordered system can not arise from an unguided process, that is just false. There are endless examples of this in teh physical world.

[/quote]

What examples do you have proving that DNA and cells can form out of an unguided process.

338

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
vroom wrote:
tuff,

All you are doing is unfuriating people and getting them to reject all that you stand for.

You realize that right?

Why don’t you try having a discussion about something instead of preaching to those that don’t want to be preached to.

Chump.

Let him keep going. Even god can’t save him from the train wreck he’s created for himself.

Oh no!! I’ve created a train wreck on the internet with a bunch of people I have never met and will never meet. I’m in for it now!!

Please!! I have had this last week as spare time because I am on paid family leave and I’m at home the whole time.

How do you have sooooooo much time on your hands to post and try to prove someone wrong you have never even met? What is it that you do all day?

[/quote]

Thats the second time you said you have “time off” to justify you’re verbal diarrhea. Feeling a little guilty of something? Seems like it to me. I didnt question why you had “so much time” on your hands.

O and I’m on the computer all day at work. I get paid to play on the internet. Thanks for caring though.

And see I’m not trying to prove you wrong. Ahhhh another eliteist thought. I like how you keep this centered on you though. Didnt know the good book taught people to be self-centered like that. Must be in the new New testament.

And if you’re on this so called “paid family leave” should you be spending it with your family??? rather than preaching to people you have “never met and will never meet?” Seems like you got your priorities a tad mixed up there. You would rather play internet argue rather than spedn time with your family… Again you’re being a self centered individual.

339

The Bible’s age is in its favor. That is, in fact, one of the proofs of its inspiration. The Bible says, “The word of the Lord endureth for ever.” 1 Peter 1:25. The Bible stands as a rock. It is God’s book–His Word. It cannot be destroyed. Men and even entire nations have burned, banned, and tried to discredit and destroy the Bible, but instead, they discredited themselves. They are gone, and their attacks on the Bible are forgotten. Yet the Bible remains a best-seller, in constant demand. Millions would die for it, if necessary. Its message is God-given and 100 percent up-to-date. Before you study it, pray and ask God to open your heart as you read.

340

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
vroom wrote:
tuff,

All you are doing is unfuriating people and getting them to reject all that you stand for.

You realize that right?

Why don’t you try having a discussion about something instead of preaching to those that don’t want to be preached to.

Chump.

Let him keep going. Even god can’t save him from the train wreck he’s created for himself.

Oh no!! I’ve created a train wreck on the internet with a bunch of people I have never met and will never meet. I’m in for it now!!

Please!! I have had this last week as spare time because I am on paid family leave and I’m at home the whole time.

How do you have sooooooo much time on your hands to post and try to prove someone wrong you have never even met? What is it that you do all day?

Thats the second time you said you have “time off” to justify you’re verbal diarrhea. Feeling a little guilty of something? Seems like it to me. I didnt question why you had “so much time” on your hands.

O and I’m on the computer all day at work. I get paid to play on the internet. Thanks for caring though.

And see I’m not trying to prove you wrong. Ahhhh another eliteist thought. I like how you keep this centered on you though. Didnt know the good book taught people to be self-centered like that. Must be in the new New testament.

And if you’re on this so called “paid family leave” should you be spending it with your family??? rather than preaching to people you have “never met and will never meet?” Seems like you got your priorities a tad mixed up there. You would rather play internet argue rather than spedn time with your family… Again you’re being a self centered individual.[/quote]

You get paid to play on the internet? I get paid to work and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Also, you have no idea of the conditions of my family leave and what I’m doing when I’m not posting.

341

The Bible Says Satan:

Deceives/persecutes
Revelation 12:9, 13

Quotes/misquotes Bible
Matthew 4:5, 6

Falsely accuses/murders
Revelation 12:10; John 8:44

Traps/ensnares
2 Timothy 2:26; 1 Peter 5:8

Makes war against God’s people
Revelation 12:17

Binds/prompts betrayal
Luke 13:16; John 13:2, 21

Imprisons
Revelation 2:10

Possesses/hinders
Luke 22:3-5; 1 Thessalonians 2:18

Works miracles/lies
Revelation 16:13, 14; John 8:44

Appears as angel of light
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Brings disease/afflicts
Job 2:7

His demons impersonate pastors
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Slanders
“Devil” means “slanderer” Calls fire from heaven
Revelation 13:13

342

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
You get paid to play on the internet? I get paid to work and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Also, you have no idea of the conditions of my family leave and what I’m doing when I’m not posting.
[/quote]

With how much you’re posting on here I dont see how you can be doing anything else but googling a response to people’s posts.

Ahhh my brother, quantifying what you do as being more important than what I do for work. Again you’re looking down on others. Thats not very holy of you. I seriously dont remember the bible teaching people to be self-centered, egotistical, closed minded, narcistic individual like yourself. If you ask me, and I know you didnt, but you have an aweful lot to work on to be a well adjusted human being. Everything seems to be about you. I thought being as selfish and self-centered as you are would be against everything the bible stand for?

Here’s some advice, stop trying to spread religious propaganda and spend time with your family. I know if I was on family leave I would be spending every moment with my family not playing internet prophet. But you’re a self-centered selfish person and arent like that. Read the good book some more, you have a lot of work to do on yourself before you dare try to preach to anyone else when its obvious you aren’t following it correctly in the first place.