recently ive peaked in squats and my progress in all other things has slowed and im looking for a revamp. i know all about the bulgarian system but i was wondering what yall thought about a all lift 5 time a week routine. when i hang up my lifting belt in 50 years want to make sure ive exhausted all possible routes to heavy weights.
Too much volume, man! Unless you’ve built yourself up to such high frequency and volume for years, I would definitely recommend AGAINST what you have laid out. You say you know about the Bulgarian method, but have you done it, or anything close to it? What you have laid out isn’t even close to Bulgarian anyway, especially with the massive lack of specificity and the huge amounts of assistance work.
I’d recommend starting with something that you know will work and is a little tamer, for example Sheiko or a general RTS template. Get used to the frequency and the volume there and then you can toy with them from there. I’ve been there before and I must say that I do regret jumping to super high frequency without building up to it.
it might be little much but its not that far out of the realm where ive been lately, check out training log on my profile, its the frequency that is a major difference…i have in fact ran the bulgarian system, squatted to the daily max 30 days in a row, my squat loved it too, the only issue is ive never ran a high frequency like this with my other lifts…i never could really get into the sheikos because of all the different routines i honestly didnt know where to start,the beginner program i seen is well for beginners, and i at least give my myself the credit of being above that , but besides that i have no idea where to look
There’s new Sheiko forum up there that might help you out if you’d be interested in looking into those programs further.
Okay, so you’ve worked up to a daily max for 30 days for your squat, but that’s completely different from working up to a rep max plus backoffs for paused squat, front squat, and power cleans all in the same day, three days a week. Add in the speed work (which, if done correctly, is also taxing on the CNS) and the rep maxes every day for a few different back exercises and you’ve got a recipe for disaster. This doesn’t even account for your pressing movements every day, for which you haven’t gotten accustomed.
Obviously you don’t have to listen to me, but after looking through your log and having done several different high-frequency programs myself, I don’t think you’re ready for that program. Again, try to work your way up to it over the course of half a year or more.
youve definetly brought up some good points man, i could not listen to you but its pretty freakin obvious you’ve got a better grasp on the idea of high frequency than anything ive dealt with, and for me to ignore all those points would be downright dumb. So with that i thank you for pulling me away from the edge from a near month long disaster, sheiko it is.
Because it looks like you could handle it just fine and do great on it. Possibly. Check out some of the posts by infinite_shore here, should be inspirational I think.
i wasnt liking what i found on sheiko mainly because i couldnt find much in the way of the actual programs, im actually in the process of making a joe skopec website with a tnation feel so ill make sure i really do my research then so theres a reliable place to find all things sheiko, because the difficulty in finding things let alone a calculator was demoralizing,but i took the program and made some adjustments as far as less assistance and getting all compounds down to three times a week, three lower days and three upper days
[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
Because it looks like you could handle it just fine and do great on it. Possibly. Check out some of the posts by infinite_shore here, should be inspirational I think.[/quote]
I like you.
OP: Who knows if your plan is sensible for you or not. To me it looks a bit like something that “looks cool on paper” kind of thing you came up with without too much reason behind it. Anyway, remember that the maximum volume/frequency people can actually survive is NOT the same (and typically much MORE) as (than) the OPTIMAL loading for them. At the same time it is true that most people are pussies and recommend some weak sauce shit like 531 to avoid “overtraining”.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Anyway, remember that the maximum volume/frequency people can actually survive is NOT the same (and typically much MORE) as (than) the OPTIMAL loading for them.[/quote]
This. Every single time I’ve gone from super-high frequency (squat and bench 4-6x, deadlift 3x) down to a more modest frequency (squatting 2-3x, bench 3x, deadlift 1-2x) I’ve seen much more rapid progress than I ever did while on the super-high frequency program, sometimes breaking many-month long plateaus and regressions by as much as 60 pounds in a few weeks, but more commonly averaging 5 pounds a week for sometimes very long stretches of time.
I was recovering just fine while on those programs, too–I never went through the “dark days” or anything close to that, really. If I wanted to I honestly think I could do 8-10 heavy squat and bench sessions a week and not have recovery issues, yet doing just half of that was too frequent to afford optimal results. Also, deadlifting heavy multiple times a week is a whole nother animal–I didn’t believe people when they told me that, but I found out the hard way.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Anyway, remember that the maximum volume/frequency people can actually survive is NOT the same (and typically much MORE) as (than) the OPTIMAL loading for them.[/quote]
This. Every single time I’ve gone from super-high frequency (squat and bench 4-6x, deadlift 3x) down to a more modest frequency (squatting 2-3x, bench 3x, deadlift 1-2x) I’ve seen much more rapid progress than I ever did while on the super-high frequency program, sometimes breaking many-month long plateaus and regressions by as much as 60 pounds in a few weeks, but more commonly averaging 5 pounds a week for sometimes very long stretches of time.
I was recovering just fine while on those programs, too–I never went through the “dark days” or anything close to that, really. If I wanted to I honestly think I could do 8-10 heavy squat and bench sessions a week and not have recovery issues, yet doing just half of that was too frequent to afford optimal results. Also, deadlifting heavy multiple times a week is a whole nother animal–I didn’t believe people when they told me that, but I found out the hard way.[/quote]
See this shit makes me paranoid lol
If you’re not getting any stronger, you are not recovering or supercompensating. I’ve made the mistake of doing too much, and all I had to show for it was feeling beat up and stagnated progress.
Look at the strong guy’s on here, and all of them have resorted at one time or another to less work/more recovery i.e. squatting heavy once every 10 days, substituting block pulls or touch and go reps into deadlift training, block periodization schemes where the loading is relatively light with moderate volume for a lot of the blocks, etc.
Even 5/3/1 is slow and steady and I’ve put 2 new lifters on that program (1 female) who are progressing awesomely. My girlfriend just squatted 135x5 when a few months ago she managed 115x1, training around a shitty work schedule. A work buddy is now around a 405x1 DL when he had a hard time holding onto 275 3 months ago. He will be close to 500 by the end of the year.
If you want to beat yourself up and spend 2+ hours in the gym every day, go ahead and do the experiment but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the results you are looking for.
Cut out all the extra. Pound the main lifts - singles/doubles/triples w/ heavy weight. There is nothing greater. Do this for 8-12 weeks. If you aren’t getting stronger, it’s either not heavy enough, eating enough or sleeping enough.
This is not rocket science. Don’t make it harder than it needs to be.
thanks for all the responces, the low frequency that was being hit upon is what i have been doing but i have recently slowed a bit. I was running a dan green split (its in the animal forums somewhere). So in order to get the things moving again i was just experimenting with some new concepts which is why i ran it thru the forums to get some feedback. Many good points were brought up and exposed the obvious weaknesses in my right up. My main goal was to get more deadlift frequency as i have been doing only 6 sessions a month and want it to 3 times a week.
My daily intake is about 8 to 10 k calories so thats not an issue but i work about 16 hours a day so the whole sleep thing sometimes gets messed up. Which is why i think a routine that lets me have some leeway as far as the pressure of hitting a rigid set rep scheme
All assistance is 20 reps, number of sets to get there is not limited
First workout should aim for 2 sets of 10
Monday
squat(AMRAP start at 60 %, add 5% per week) 1set
pause squats
deadlift level box squats
deficit deadlifts
Tuesday
bench (AMRAP start at 60 %, add 5% per week) 1set
wide grip incline
military
2 types of rows
[quote]theuofh wrote:
If you’re not getting any stronger, you are not recovering or supercompensating. I’ve made the mistake of doing too much, and all I had to show for it was feeling beat up and stagnated progress.
Look at the strong guy’s on here, and all of them have resorted at one time or another to less work/more recovery i.e. squatting heavy once every 10 days, substituting block pulls or touch and go reps into deadlift training, block periodization schemes where the loading is relatively light with moderate volume for a lot of the blocks, etc.
Even 5/3/1 is slow and steady and I’ve put 2 new lifters on that program (1 female) who are progressing awesomely. My girlfriend just squatted 135x5 when a few months ago she managed 115x1, training around a shitty work schedule. A work buddy is now around a 405x1 DL when he had a hard time holding onto 275 3 months ago. He will be close to 500 by the end of the year.
If you want to beat yourself up and spend 2+ hours in the gym every day, go ahead and do the experiment but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the results you are looking for. [/quote]
i dont wanna sound cocky but i just hit 550 squat and 500 deadlift for 10 sets of 3 at 18 years old i think that qualifies me as strong
the reason progress is stalling is because ive ran progressive overloads for a bit and its been about 4 or 5 months since i had a block of training directed exactly at getting more frequency/volume in.
ive ran 5/3/1 before but the gains on that program dont match the pace of my hopping from one program to another after a cycle or two
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Anyway, remember that the maximum volume/frequency people can actually survive is NOT the same (and typically much MORE) as (than) the OPTIMAL loading for them.[/quote]
This. Every single time I’ve gone from super-high frequency (squat and bench 4-6x, deadlift 3x) down to a more modest frequency (squatting 2-3x, bench 3x, deadlift 1-2x) I’ve seen much more rapid progress than I ever did while on the super-high frequency program, sometimes breaking many-month long plateaus and regressions by as much as 60 pounds in a few weeks, but more commonly averaging 5 pounds a week for sometimes very long stretches of time.
I was recovering just fine while on those programs, too–I never went through the “dark days” or anything close to that, really. If I wanted to I honestly think I could do 8-10 heavy squat and bench sessions a week and not have recovery issues, yet doing just half of that was too frequent to afford optimal results. Also, deadlifting heavy multiple times a week is a whole nother animal–I didn’t believe people when they told me that, but I found out the hard way.[/quote]
do you think it was possible all the high frequency had prepared you to take the step to a more productive training at lower frequency? from what ive seen theres a trend of strong lifters taking a period of high rep/frequency before they go into a strength/peak cycle
[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
Because it looks like you could handle it just fine and do great on it. Possibly. Check out some of the posts by infinite_shore here, should be inspirational I think.[/quote]
I like you.
OP: Who knows if your plan is sensible for you or not. To me it looks a bit like something that “looks cool on paper” kind of thing you came up with without too much reason behind it. Anyway, remember that the maximum volume/frequency people can actually survive is NOT the same (and typically much MORE) as (than) the OPTIMAL loading for them. At the same time it is true that most people are pussies and recommend some weak sauce shit like 531 to avoid “overtraining”.[/quote]
the more i look at the bull i threw together the more it looks like a cool on paper thing haha. thats what i was avoiding, as ive stated above in a recent response ,5/3/1 just wasnt cutting it. this idea of high frequency may work, or it may not, but before i toss it in the can i wanna KNOW it doesnt work