European Human Rights

[harris447]

[quote]hspder wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The people of Europe are being turned into harmless little rodents, because they have a managed economy and have lost incentives to go ‘balls to the walls’ for anything. Unless they get rid of their nanny-system, they’re doomed.

I’m having trouble understanding your point.

Realizing that the VVD is the party in The Netherlands that is closest to your libertarian beliefs…

… does the above mean you are supporting their actions?
[/quote]

Why would you ask him a question that required thought or logic?

He’s a nincompoop.

[Headhunter]

[quote]harris447 wrote:
hspder wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The people of Europe are being turned into harmless little rodents, because they have a managed economy and have lost incentives to go ‘balls to the walls’ for anything. Unless they get rid of their nanny-system, they’re doomed.

I’m having trouble understanding your point.

Realizing that the VVD is the party in The Netherlands that is closest to your libertarian beliefs…

… does the above mean you are supporting their actions?

Why would you ask him a question that required thought or logic?

He’s a nincompoop.
[/quote]

I’m proud of you Harris! See, you can post without vulgarity!

HH

[doogie]

From what I can gather, the Attorney General can give her asylum by himself:

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/publicaffairs/factsheets/948.htm

[quote]
Section 208 of the INA is amended to provide that an alien who is physically present in, or who arrives in, the United States may apply for asylum in accordance with section 208 or, where applicable, section 235(b)(1). However, an alien may not apply for asylum if the Attorney General determines that the alien can be returned to a safe third country pursuant to a bilateral agreement, unless the Attorney General finds it [/quote]in the public interest[quote] for the alien to receive asylum in the United States[/quote]

Section 208 of the INA is amended to provide that an alien who is physically present in, or who arrives in, the United States may apply for asylum in accordance with section 208 or, where applicable, section 235(b)(1). However, an alien may not apply for asylum if the Attorney General determines that the alien can be returned to a safe third country pursuant to a bilateral agreement, unless the Attorney General finds it[/quote] in the public interest [/quote]for the alien to receive asylum in the United States.

[makkun]

doogie,

[quote]doogie wrote:
makkun wrote:
doogie,

doogie wrote:
[…]
Looks like they went ahead and took care of the problem completely: […]

Who was that guy here on the forums who said “send 'em home” in the thread of the same name?

Not cool to not provide a link, making me look it up. Double not cool using PART of a sarcastic post. You had me racking my brain trying to figure out why I would say that. For the record, what I said was:[/quote]

Sorry for the brainracking - I thought you knew your lines. Don’t take it personally, as it was not meant to.

[quote]Get out in the 100 degree heat and bend over and pick you own onions and lettuce!!

Send 'em home!
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1040527[/quote]

The quote in context by the way wasn’t bad at all. More honest than many that I have read on the topic.

[quote]After all, she lied in her asylum application. After all the threads about kicking out illegal immigrants for breaking the law in the US, don’t the Dutch have the right to do so?

Now don’t get me wrong, I think it’s pretty shitty how her own (right-wing) party first ignored her confession in 2002 - and it’s no question that she should be given protection against persecution by terrorists (whether legally in the country or not) - but you can’t criticise a state for applying its legal rules just because you happen to agree with the perpetrator. That would be inconsequent.[/quote]

I don’t think I’ve ever advocated deporting all illegals (a large chunk of my students are illegal), but I may have.

My criticism was more directed at the thread itself as her case portraying “failure” of human rights in the EU - not as an ad hominem towards you.

Either way, it’s such a stupid and cowardly thing to do to her at this point in time.

Hm, yeah, it is. As in so many cases when people are being deported back into persecution. I think she epitomises what people do to get out of poverty, persecution and lack of freedom - they will cheat and they will lie to better their situation, and I am having a hard time holding it against them.

It’s surely not a single case, I gather - it’s just one where the person is publicly known, and her “deportation” smacks of political intrigue. But it’s surely the NL’s right to do so, and it seems to be proper procedure - sad, but true.

Makkun

[makkun]

Zap,

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
makkun wrote:
…
After all, she lied in her asylum application. After all the threads about kicking out illegal immigrants for breaking the law in the US, don’t the Dutch have the right to do so?

…

She admitted this four years ago. She says she used a false name and birthdate to protect her family members that stayed behind.[/quote]

Who recently gave interviews on how they don’t get what she was talking about…
She also omitted that she had lived safely in Kenia for a few years, which would have ruled her out for asylum in the first place.

[quote]I don’t know anything about the political situation over there.

I do find withdrawing protection from this woman just because they don’t like her politics is amazing and it appears they are caving in to Islamic extremists.[/quote]

The above is obvious - no one took away protection from her: She just had to leave her flat and move somewhere else within 4 months (with her security detail btw), according to the first articles.

And now, after a TV portrait of her (which included family members of her pointing out that she was not persecuted - which of course might not be true, I give you that), it became wider public knowledge that she had lied to get asylum status.

And it’s pressure from her own (right-liberal) party who had known about this for years - which is the real scandal. No islamic radicals needed to fuck this up further - this is proper home-made, and not a sign of failure of human rights in the EU, bowing to terrorism, as aledged.

Makkun

[TrainerinDC]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
No, I just think the societies are, in general, becoming more cowardly and pathetic, because they don’t have to fight for anything. They know they’ll always be fed, have medical care, and so forth. They’re being turned into pets.

HH

[/quote]

Amen. Lets equate it to a kept woman. If you buy her clothes, feed her, provide her a place to live and a car, give her money to do whatever, why would she ever want to work or strive? She would already know that it would be taken care of for her. This is how entire nations and cultures are becoming. Imagine this world if no one ever struggled? Or worked hard? Or put others over themselves?

[Headhunter]

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
No, I just think the societies are, in general, becoming more cowardly and pathetic, because they don’t have to fight for anything. They know they’ll always be fed, have medical care, and so forth. They’re being turned into pets.

HH

Amen. Lets equate it to a kept woman. If you buy her clothes, feed her, provide her a place to live and a car, give her money to do whatever, why would she ever want to work or strive? She would already know that it would be taken care of for her. This is how entire nations and cultures are becoming. Imagine this world if no one ever struggled? Or worked hard? Or put others over themselves?
[/quote]

Hey, there is SOMEONE here who gets it! Cool!

Dammit, I don’t WANT a safety net, I don’t want to be provided for.

“If you ain’t no punk, holler ‘We want freedom!’…yeah!!”
— from the song Goldigger
Konye West

[kaaleppi]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
No, I just think the societies are, in general, becoming more cowardly and pathetic, because they don’t have to fight for anything. They know they’ll always be fed, have medical care, and so forth. They’re being turned into pets.

HH

Amen. Lets equate it to a kept woman. If you buy her clothes, feed her, provide her a place to live and a car, give her money to do whatever, why would she ever want to work or strive? She would already know that it would be taken care of for her. This is how entire nations and cultures are becoming. Imagine this world if no one ever struggled? Or worked hard? Or put others over themselves?

Hey, there is SOMEONE here who gets it! Cool!

Dammit, I don’t WANT a safety net, I don’t want to be provided for.

“If you ain’t no punk, holler ‘We want freedom!’…yeah!!”
— from the song Goldigger
Konye West

[/quote]

So, you don’t have any insurances?

[hspder]

[quote]karva wrote:
So, you don’t have any insurances?[/quote]

Don’t bother. You’re wasting your time.

That last methaphor has beaten all detachment-from-reality records I’ve seen.

Just ask any American woman who has been refusing to stay at home in the past 40 years. All 100 MILLION of them.

[rainjack]

[quote]hspder wrote:
karva wrote:
So, you don’t have any insurances?

Don’t bother. You’re wasting your time.

That last methaphor has beaten all detachment-from-reality records I’ve seen.

Just ask any American woman who has been refusing to stay at home in the past 40 years. All 100 MILLION of them.
[/quote]

Why is it that government-paid health care is equal to food clothing and shelter to the whacked out left?

News flash - it is not a necessity.

[Headhunter]

[quote]hspder wrote:
karva wrote:
So, you don’t have any insurances?

Don’t bother. You’re wasting your time.

That last methaphor has beaten all detachment-from-reality records I’ve seen.

Just ask any American woman who has been refusing to stay at home in the past 40 years. All 100 MILLION of them.
[/quote]

Well, first, insurance is a private gig I buy. So, wtf?

Second, Prof, what EVER are you talking about? I’ve been teaching all day, so maybe I’m missing something?

[ALDurr]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
hspder wrote:
karva wrote:
So, you don’t have any insurances?

Don’t bother. You’re wasting your time.

That last methaphor has beaten all detachment-from-reality records I’ve seen.

Just ask any American woman who has been refusing to stay at home in the past 40 years. All 100 MILLION of them.

Well, first, insurance is a private gig I buy. So, wtf?

Second, Prof, what EVER are you talking about? I’ve been teaching all day, so maybe I’m missing something?

[/quote]

I think the question the person has is, if you so strongly believe in no safety nets, do you have insurance? Insurance, in it self, being a type of safety net (You get insurance just IN CASE something happens). If you do have it, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?

(*NOTE - I am interpreting what karva could possibly be saying. I am not calling you anything. If I am wrong karva, please let me know.)

[ALDurr]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Why is it that government-paid health care is equal to food clothing and shelter to the whacked out left?

News flash - it is not a necessity.
[/quote]

In this country, health care is a necessity. Go without it and see just how long you last.

[kaaleppi]

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
hspder wrote:
karva wrote:
So, you don’t have any insurances?

Don’t bother. You’re wasting your time.

That last methaphor has beaten all detachment-from-reality records I’ve seen.

Just ask any American woman who has been refusing to stay at home in the past 40 years. All 100 MILLION of them.

Well, first, insurance is a private gig I buy. So, wtf?

Second, Prof, what EVER are you talking about? I’ve been teaching all day, so maybe I’m missing something?

I think the question the person has is, if you so strongly believe in no safety nets, do you have insurance? Insurance, in it self, being a type of safety net (You get insurance just IN CASE something happens). If you do have it, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?

(*NOTE - I am interpreting what karva could possibly be saying. I am not calling you anything. If I am wrong karva, please let me know.)[/quote]

You are right ALDurr, that’s what I ment. I’m not calling Headhunter a hypocrite, though. What he wrote is self-contradictory and I find that funny. Especially when it’s expressed in a self-confident way.

I do understand what you ment, Headhunter. I’m living in a country with reasonable good social security and where the majority of people are willing to pay their taxes, so I have a different view on things.

[rainjack]

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Why is it that government-paid health care is equal to food clothing and shelter to the whacked out left?

News flash - it is not a necessity.

In this country, health care is a necessity. Go without it and see just how long you last.

[/quote]

It is not a necessity because you say so. I don’t carry health insurance. I have never paid for, nor carried health insurance for over 20 years.

Guess what…I’m still breathing. I don;t think I could say the same had I decided not to eat,clothe or shelter myself for the same time period.

[ALDurr]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Why is it that government-paid health care is equal to food clothing and shelter to the whacked out left?

News flash - it is not a necessity.

In this country, health care is a necessity. Go without it and see just how long you last.

It is not a necessity because you say so. I don’t carry health insurance. I have never paid for, nor carried health insurance for over 20 years.

Guess what…I’m still breathing. I don;t think I could say the same had I decided not to eat,clothe or shelter myself for the same time period. [/quote]

Have you, or any family members, had any major accidents or any other reasons to be in the hospital for any long stretch? Do you, or any family members, have any chronic conditions (serious allergies, diabetes, asthma etc.)? If you have and survived without any huge financial issues, great, I’m truly glad for you. If you haven’t, it might be that you all might have been playing the odds and have been lucky so far. Either way, you are one of the more fortunate ones and I hope it never changes for you.

Not everybody is as fortunate as you have been so far and it becomes more important for them. My friend’s son has chronic asthma and allergy season is a miserable time for him. If it wasn’t for good health insurance, his medication would be ridiculously high and in some cases, cost prohibitive. This poor kid wouldn’t be able to do many of the things kids his age can do without his medication and treatment and would have a miserable childhood. Can you say that healthcare is not a necessity in that case? I don’t think so.

However, I do see your point that in a basic, primative sense, it is not a necessity. In actual practice though, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

(*NOTE - I didn’t say anything about government-paid healthcare. That is a whole other topic of discussion. I was just referring to healthcare in general.)

[rainjack]

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
However, I do see your point that in a basic, primative sense, it is not a necessity. In actual practice though, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

(*NOTE - I didn’t say anything about government-paid healthcare. That is a whole other topic of discussion. I was just referring to healthcare in general.)[/quote]

It is not that we do not save for medical situations. We have had two healthy babies, numerous trips to the emergency room, optometrists, dentists, et al.

we just don’t pay some suit in Dallas give us a fancy blue card. we save our money and pay as we go.

I am not against having insurance. I just think that healthy americans have become as addicted to the 20 dollar co-pay as they have the big mac. when we do finally get healthcare insurance it will be an enormous deductible straight 80/20 plan.

[ephrem]

…if healthcare wasn’t mandatory for the dutch, i wouldn’t be insured. I wasn’t insured for 7 years, prior to the introduction of a new, far more expensive, healthcare system. If you aren’t insured, you will be fined…

[miniross]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
No, I just think the societies are, in general, becoming more cowardly and pathetic, because they don’t have to fight for anything. They know they’ll always be fed, have medical care, and so forth. They’re being turned into pets.

HH
Amen. Lets equate it to a kept woman. If you buy her clothes, feed her, provide her a place to live and a car, give her money to do whatever, why would she ever want to work or strive? She would already know that it would be taken care of for her. This is how entire nations and cultures are becoming. Imagine this world if no one ever struggled? Or worked hard? Or put others over themselves?

Hey, there is SOMEONE here who gets it! Cool!

Dammit, I don’t WANT a safety net, I don’t want to be provided for.

“If you ain’t no punk, holler ‘We want freedom!’…yeah!!”
— from the song Goldigger
Konye West

[/quote]

I thought it was “we want prenup, we want prenup”?

And you are right, thank fuck for it, otherwise we wouldnt have time or energy to spend doing this shit all day, and eating and training and having casual sex.

You can go for your “in the woods” life.

Me, i have paid dues and love the fact i get free Healthcare.

[rainjack]

[quote]miniross wrote:
And you are right, thank fuck for it, otherwise we wouldnt have time or energy to spend doing this shit all day, and eating and training and having casual sex.

You can go for your “in the woods” life.

Me, i have paid dues and love the fact i get free Healthcare.

[/quote]

I spend all day doing this shit, and no one is paying dick for me.

Since when has gov’t paid healthcare become the mark of a more refined society?

Seems to me it is a combination of politicians wanting to run every aspect of your life, and lazy unproductive sods who get their rocks off by standing in line for free shit.

I’ll take my “in the woods” life anyday.