[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
lixy wrote:
Terrorist attack on a website? Is that what you get when you run PHP-Nuke?
mybomb_detonate_bomb(‘atomic’,‘http://bnp.org.uk/’);[/quote]
I think three NSA servers just exploded.
[quote]token wrote:
Sifu, what is guardianistas? And what do you mean that if you go far enough to one side you pop up at the other side, do you think that communism and nazism is the same thing?[/quote]
To find out what Guardianistas are you should probably start here.
LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You
Study the history. The similarities between communism and nazism are so much greater than the differences that they essentially are the same.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
makkun:
"Man who killed guard at Holocaust museum has links to BNP "
He sure is a right whackjob, but what does that prove? It seems to more as newsworthy as “the recent highschool massacre teenager was into FPS games.” [/quote]
Now you are being objective and analyzing information critically.
[quote]
But honestly guys, let’s not turn this into the usual jews vs rightwingers vs arabs deathmatch sort of thing.
let’s see:
Erasmus wrote: “Europe has basicly voted centre-right, which is not unusual in an economic recession.”
Is he right?
Or is it generally fringevoting. [/quote]
Yes and no. The recession has accelerated a trend that was already going on. Across Europe leftist governments have been flooding countries with third world immigrants many of whom are muslim.
This trend has been the most extreme in Britain where inaccurate official statistics show that over three million imigrants have flooded into the country since Labour came to power in 1997. Three million new jobs have been created in Britain since 1997 and almost all of them have been taken by immigrants. Meanwhile there are over three million able bodied Britons on welfare and unemployment benefits and a massive number more on good paying state funded non-jobs. Do the math.
Since the immigrants are willing to work for much less money than the British and many of them have education and job skills there has been a massive downward pressure on wages. While at the same time the price of oil has been going up, food has been going up and the massive rise in population drove up the price of housing. The combined effect wage rise stagnation and cost of living inflation is a form of what the Americans in the 70’s called “stagflation”.
All the leftists could keep saying is this mass immigration is good for us, now our economies will boom, this has ended the cycle of boom and bust. While the economies were doing okay apathetic Auropeans just went along with it. Now the recession has shown people where it all was leading opinion has turned.
[quote]
It is interesting to anticipate the political spectrum in five years. Will the world economy be totally stable and the EU Parliament will revert to cushy lobbyism once more? Or will it be in turmoil, with green, right, left and digital radicals in the midst? [/quote]
The next five years is going to be critical for the future of European civilization. As matters stand right now Europe is unsustainable. Europe cannot continue with lavish welfare, confiscationary taxes and a shrinking manufacturing base. It is a delusional pipe dream that in the future the descendents of the present waves of third world immigrants are going to be perfectly happy to keep paying extremely high taxes in order to support a retired population of geriatric Europeans who they aren’t related to.
Unless the mainstream political parties start listening to the people there will be more turning to alternative parties. Some of the alternative parties are going to fall by the wayside when people realize that they really have no intention to deliver on their promises and there is going to be a sorting out of the alternative parties with big winners and losers.
ie UKIP is not going to deliver on getting Britain out of the EU and the EU is going to get a lot worse with more widespread discontent. When this happens UKIP (which is solely an EU party) will collapse and there will be only one anti EU party left standing. That party is the BNP.
Out of all the parties elected to the EU the one that I find most disturbing is the Swedish pirate party. Nero fiddling while Rome burned is nothing on that. Liberal Sweden has been flooded with muslim immigrants. In Malmo their third largest city Swedes are already a minority and they have had violent muslim rioting. 30 years from now when Swedish girls are being forced to wear burkhas and are suffering from circumcision they are going to be cursing this generation for being more interested in stealing music than protecting their culture.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Jab1 wrote:
Gutted about the BNP getting two seats. How can there be hundreds of thousands of racist climate change denialists in this country? Shameful. And also just as shameful are the people who didn’t go out and vote and let this happen.
I voted Lib Dems in England. Very nearly voted Greens but found out they don’t support nuclear energy in the nic of time. Then afterwards found out they are anti science nut jobs and am incredibly glad I didn’t vote for them!
What’s wrong with the BNP? [/quote]
The biggest problem is they aren’t controlled wealthy corporations. Because one has to be willing to withstand a lot of abuse, endanger themselves and have the courage to stand by their convictions in order to be a supporter it is not a party where one finds the typical slimy sellout of a career politician that we are all so familiar with. Long story short, they are a threat to the status quo.
[quote]
They appear to be pissed because the NHS has fired British docs and replaced them with docs from 3rd world countries; and the NHS hiring illegal aliens to clean the hospitals, resulting in filthy hospitals that cause patient deaths. [/quote]
Thanks to all the third world staff British hospitals are now providing a level of care that you would expect in the third world. Additionally the NHS is running a budget deficit that is 7 times the budget for foreign aid to countries like China, India, Pakistan. Countries which have booming economies and/or money to spend on space programs, nuclear weapons programs, buying up all the industrial infrastructure from defunct British industries like Rover or the Tyneside shipyards which at one time built over two thirds of all the ships on the high seas.
Then there is the issue of British soldiers wounded in Iraq or afghanistan who have tubes going in and out of their bodies, limbs missing, etc… who are completely at the mercy of this NHS staff many of whom are muslim.
[quote]
They also don’t want to be awakened in the morning by someone squalling over a PA system that its time for morning prayers. [/quote]
That bullshit is infuriating. Especially when it is on my day off when I finally get a chance to catch up on sleep. Or the evening one waking me when I have gone to bed early because I have to wake up really early when it is really important that I get to work on time that day and I’m sharp and ready to handle my business.
It is a way to drive people out of an area and impose their culture. Besides it’s not about prayer what it really was intended for is to be a headcount 5 times a day, just like they do in prison, it is how they keep people from escaping.
[quote]TQB wrote:
Erasmus is right. This a minor shift from centre right to a little bit more right,but still centre. The previous biggest grouping, the European People’s Party was strengthened. the Socialists lost and the Liberals dropped a bit. In some countries, Eurosceptics gained, in others they crashed. Percentage wise, no big change. The UK Conservatives decided to leave the EPP and form a new grouping, but may find that some potential partners carry baggage(in from of unacceptable political positions).
All in all, a nudge to the right.
Why is the Parliament so receptive to lobbyism? Not certain but could be that they have much more power than people realise and the citizens’ scrutiny is lacking. Some crooks, lots of hardworking MEPs. I have been there well pastr midnight on several occasions.[/quote]
Perhaps because the EU is first and foremost designed for the benefit and interest of big business. Europe doesn’t have the kind of antitrust laws the US does. There are companies in Europe that have greater yearly revenues than some of the EU members Gross National Product. So there is a lot of money to go around.
By it’s very nature the EU parliament is remote from the people. With so many different languages being spoken it is bound to be difficult for citizens to pay attention and provide oversight. Additionally when the constitution and other legal documents are deliberately written in such complex and convoluted legalese that even expert lawyers can’t understand them that creates another level of disconnect where the people don’t have a clue what is going on.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Terrorist attack on a website? Is that what you get when you run PHP-Nuke?[/quote]
At the end of May the BNP website was the target of the biggest ever denial of service attack. Under British law DOS attacks are classified as terrorism because they have the ability to disable important infrastructure.
Because US freedom of speech laws are much more robust than British laws the BNP leases webhosting from one of the largest webhosting companies in the US. The DOS attack took out one of the most largest server farms in the US. There a lot of businesses that were affected the disabling of this important piece of US infrastructure.
The FBI is investigating this attack which originated from Eastern Europe, (primarily Russia) because laws were broken and the disabling of such an important piece of infrastructure raises serious concerns for national security.
It is interesting that the most massive DOS attack in the history of the internet was carried out by organised criminal gangs based in Eastern Europe against taking out an important piece of US infrastructure yet it was not reported by the mainstream media.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Perhaps because the EU is first and foremost designed for the benefit and interest of big business. Europe doesn’t have the kind of antitrust laws the US does. There are companies in Europe that have greater yearly revenues than some of the EU members Gross National Product. So there is a lot of money to go around.[/quote]
Article 81-83 of the treaty. Something Microsoft, IKEA and others have noted to their cost. Mobile phone roaming charges have been slashed, where national governments would have been powerless to act. Air passengers have right when delayed of bumped. All day to day work for the Commission.
As for GDP/Company revenue
[quote]By it’s very nature the EU parliament is remote from the people. With so many different languages being spoken it is bound to be difficult for citizens to pay attention and provide oversight. Additionally when the constitution and other legal documents are deliberately written in such complex and convoluted legalese that even expert lawyers can’t understand them that creates another level of disconnect where the people don’t have a clue what is going on.
[/quote]
It is actually quite easy to monitor. All EP documentation, including the minutes of the plenary meeting and voting lists are translated into all the official languages and posted on the web. Difficult to read? Sure it is legislation, usually written to modify existing laws. That is never easy. Rewriting from scratch can create havoc in the Court of Justice as there would be endless claim about the validity of precedents.
As an aside your claim about Malmo is nonsense. About 27% of inhabitants are immigrants, the largest contingent being those Danish spongers. Given that the Swedish definition of immigrants are those with one parent born abroad my own children with a US mother are immigrants.
The area around Malmo does have a nasty presence of the main racist party, the Swedish Democrats, though. This is probably the source of the claim.
[quote]TQB wrote:
As an aside your claim about Malmo is nonsense. About 27% of inhabitants are immigrants, the largest contingent being those Danish spongers. Given that the Swedish definition of immigrants are those with one parent born abroad my own children with a US mother are immigrants.
The area around Malmo does have a nasty presence of the main racist party, the Swedish Democrats, though. This is probably the source of the claim.[/quote]
Places like Rosengard has also to do with this. Nowadays when you spend time with a swede or dane, it seems to be almost a rule that the subject of immigration related problems must come up.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
makkun:
"Man who killed guard at Holocaust museum has links to BNP "
He sure is a right whackjob, but what does that prove? It seems to more as newsworthy as “the recent highschool massacre teenager was into FPS games.”
But honestly guys, let’s not turn this into the usual jews vs rightwingers vs arabs deathmatch sort of thing.[/quote]
Sure, you’re absolutely right - I just wanted to wind up Sifu a little bit with his conspiracy-theorising. It was just too tempting. 
[quote]let’s see:
Erasmus wrote: “Europe has basicly voted centre-right, which is not unusual in an economic recession.”
Is he right?
Or is it generally fringevoting.
It is interesting to anticipate the political spectrum in five years. Will the world economy be totally stable and the EU Parliament will revert to cushy lobbyism once more? Or will it be in turmoil, with green, right, left and digital radicals in the midst?[/quote]
I think Erasmus’s post was the most accurate and balanced one so far in the thread (beside yours). It’s been a move towards the centre-right, or more clearly (at least for the UK), it was a move away from the left. Wrt the BNP getting two seats - if I understand the math correctly, they succeeded mostly due to the Labour vote breaking down (and rightly so) and the lower turnout (which sucks); thus creating a larger share than they would have normally had.
Experience with fringe parties in parliaments in the long term is that they tend to tear themselves apart from within (see the German NPD at the moment) and will normally represent a blip in the overall scope of things. Imho that has to do with their ability to cope with growth and to deal with their increased political role professionally. I think that the deciding factor over this EU parliament will be whether the down-turn is a recession (and thus there will be a recovery), or whether it’s a permanent correction (in which case I would expect fringe parties of all types to make a longer appearance).
I’m obviously disappointed by the overall results for social democracy (taking out the UK’s Labour party which has deserved all the kickings it’s getting), but not really worried about a few right wing crazies making an appearance.
Makkun
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[…] I read that article in the mail, thanks for bringing it into the discussion for me. Those articles clearly show the extreme desperation of the MSM to do everything they can do to smear the BNP. They are really stretching there to call attending a fundraiser “a link to the BNP”. They are trying to create a news story out of nothing.
Using their twisted logic one could say that I have links to the Spanish inquisition, because my roommate attended a Democratic party fundrasier, the party of Barack Obama, whose recent speech at Notre Dame gives him links to the Roman Catholic church which is the group responsible for the inquisition.
The MSM is desperately grasping at straws and they are destroying their credibility in the process. The Times is owned by Rupert Murdoch along with the Sun, Sky news, FOX News etc… Just a few weeks ago the Times sister publication The SUN made up a bogus story accusing the BNP of passing out literature saying the Ghurkas should be kicked out of the country which they were forced to retract and are now being sued for.
People see what is going on and are increasingly bypassing the MSM to get their information directly from the BNP. That is why their website is by far the most popular of all the political parties. That is also why there was a terrorist attack on their site two weeks ago.
Tony Bliar was Rupert Murdochs bitch and George Bush was in his pocket too. You can’t say that about the BNP. That is the real issue here. The BNP is a genuine threat to the power and control of people like Rupert Murdoch. [/quote]
See - that’s why I posted it. Because I thought it was about as irrelevant and bullshit as the Air France connection you brought up which was coming from the Daily Mail. And to pull your leg a bit.
Also, no I don’t agree. I think the BNP is a virulently antidemocratic nazi party, which if given the power would be a danger to the democratic state - but I think it doesn’t have the organisational structure to sustain within the frameworks of a modern elected parliament, given it’s fringe-style activist base. And - I think it’s a typical protest vote party which had a lucky break. I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
Makkun
Sifu, just say google it… guardianista: "Derogaratory.
an insult used by right wing commentators to describe middle class left/liberals and there perceived liberal agenda. " So, you were simply insulting that otehr guy? …
Communism is about forced equallity, nazi is about white power shit, how is this the same?
[quote]token wrote:
Sifu, just say google it… guardianista: "Derogaratory.
an insult used by right wing commentators to describe middle class left/liberals and there perceived liberal agenda. " So, you were simply insulting that otehr guy? …
Communism is about forced equallity, nazi is about white power shit, how is this the same?[/quote]
Nazism was not about enforced equality?
This poster is probably from the 1936 referendum. The text: “Before: Unemployment, hopelessness, desolation, strikes, lockouts. Today: Work, joy, discipline, comaradarie. Give the Führer your vote!” Courtesy of the University of Minnesota Library.
This poster comes from the World War II period. The text translates as: “Labor Comrade. You work with us. Keep up your strength!” Courtesy of Dr. Robert D. Brooks.
So I take it that you didn’t vote, orion?
[quote]orion wrote:
Nazism was not about enforced equality? [/quote]
Equality is something our species has been striving for since a long time. The principle of a judicial system that treats everybody equally is the cornerstone of a democratic state, and the latter is expected to enforce it.
Nazism departs from this by postulating that different races are not equal, with the consequences we all know and loathe (Nationalism, which for some reason doesn’t carry as much negative connotation as Nazism, does the same thing but focuses on citizenship instead of race).
Communism, on the other hand, had an international mission that took racial equality as far as fighting Mendelism. Which puts it totally at odds with Nazism for which Mendelism didn’t go far enough in its list of inheritable traits.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
So I take it that you didn’t vote, orion?[/quote]
bingo!
[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
Nazism was not about enforced equality?
Equality is something our species has been striving for since a long time. The principle of a judicial system that treats everybody equally is the cornerstone of a democratic state, and the latter is expected to enforce it.
Nazism departs from this by postulating that different races are not equal, with the consequences we all know and loathe (Nationalism, which for some reason doesn’t carry as much negative connotation as Nazism, does the same thing but focuses on citizenship instead of race).
Communism, on the other hand, had an international mission that took racial equality as far as fighting Mendelism. Which puts it totally at odds with Nazism for which Mendelism didn’t go far enough in its list of inheritable traits. [/quote]
Nazism and Communism both promised equality to their constituency, one for a specific people, the other for a specific class. Both are in the end expressions of average utilitarianism.
In order to achieve their goals, both ideologies had to fight a different meaning of equality, quality under the law. Collectivist “equality”, be it national socialist or communist cannot coexist with equality under the law which is out of necessity an individualist, libertarian concept , for who would be equal before the law if not individuals.
And that is just the theoretical part.
In the real world both systems had fascist, socialist, nationalist and militaristic elements, combined with a deification of their leaders.
That is and was the standard model in Germany, Italy, Russia, China and wherever else, which just goes to show that collectivist drivel is easily interchangeable and combinable.
[quote]orion wrote:
lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
Nazism was not about enforced equality?
Equality is something our species has been striving for since a long time. The principle of a judicial system that treats everybody equally is the cornerstone of a democratic state, and the latter is expected to enforce it.
Nazism departs from this by postulating that different races are not equal, with the consequences we all know and loathe (Nationalism, which for some reason doesn’t carry as much negative connotation as Nazism, does the same thing but focuses on citizenship instead of race).
Communism, on the other hand, had an international mission that took racial equality as far as fighting Mendelism. Which puts it totally at odds with Nazism for which Mendelism didn’t go far enough in its list of inheritable traits.
Nazism and Communism both promised equality to their constituency, one for a specific people, the other for a specific class. Both are in the end expressions of average utilitarianism.
In order to achieve their goals, both ideologies had to fight a different meaning of equality, quality under the law. Collectivist “equality”, be it national socialist or communist cannot coexist with equality under the law which is out of necessity an individualist, libertarian concept , for who would be equal before the law if not individuals.
And that is just the theoretical part.
In the real world both systems had fascist, socialist, nationalist and militaristic elements, combined with a deification of their leaders.
That is and was the standard model in Germany, Italy, Russia, China and wherever else, which just goes to show that collectivist drivel is easily interchangeable and combinable. [/quote]
This is silly. Class equality doesn’t exist. People are subsidized, some have some sort of immunity, etc. You might not like it, but it’s there.
Collectivist states are dangerous. No argument there. In fact, any state big enough is dangerous, collectivist or otherwise. But to equate discrimination based on wealth (which exists in just about every country I know of) with racial discrimination is simply outrageous.
All equalities weren’t born equal!
[quote]lixy wrote:
This is silly. Class equality doesn’t exist. People are subsidized, some have some sort of immunity, etc. You might not like it, but it’s there.
Collectivist states are dangerous. No argument there. In fact, any state big enough is dangerous, collectivist or otherwise. But to equate discrimination based on wealth (which exists in just about every country I know of) with racial discrimination is simply outrageous.
All equalities weren’t born equal![/quote]
Did I not write that?
You can have equality before the law, or any other kind of equality, but not both-
Therefore, achieving any other form of equality first requires to turn the state into a weapon and then to turn it against your minority of choice.