If one didn’t believe that Islam could condone such violence, then the statement would make sense. However, I’m not in a position to know what Islam realistically supports… as opposed to what some claim it supports.
[quote]vroom wrote:
If one didn’t believe that Islam could condone such violence, then the statement would make sense. However, I’m not in a position to know what Islam realistically supports… as opposed to what some claim it supports.[/quote]
You could ask Shakeel Bhat - below - perhaps he could learn more about the issue.
The point is that there is a segment within the culture of Islam that calls for violence. You pick the % or number of folks that make up this demographic. Why tip toe around the problem of violent islamists?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070705/wl_sthasia_afp/indiakashmirunrestdemointernet_070705050008
There was a plot a few years ago to fly airplanes into the Eifel tower that got stopped. However AQ keeps coming back to a target until they get it. That is why they launched two attacks on the world trade center.
If you look at France today you will see that there are a lot of attacks on Jews coming from French muslims. This is why you see an exodus of French Jews out of France.
A freind of my family who is one of Germany’s remaining Jews used to take his family on vacation to France every summer. France was like their second home. They no longer go to France because they no longer feel safe there.
Maybe to some a couple of Jews getting lynched doesn’t count as terrorism but it is violent religious bigotry and just the tip of the iceburg.
American support of the IRA is a good example of hypocracy. It should also be noted that Tony Blair signed over British sovereignty to America a few years ago with a new extradition treaty. This treaty allows American police to go to Britain, arrest whoever they want and remove them from Britain to whereever they want to take them (like Guantanamo) without an extradition hearing.
America was unwilling to grant reciprocal powers of arrest and removal to the British because of all the IRA supporters who would been in jeopardy. It also would violate the constitutional protection of due process of law.
It seems America wants to export it’s values to other countries except it’s closest ally.
Then again Tony Blair is a piece of shit lawyer who did everything he could to end centuries of legal tradition like the right to a trial and the presumption of innocence. I am so glad he is gone.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I share your disgust for the way so many private citizens have funded the IRA and how some of our government leaders were complicit.
Seeing Gerry Adams glad hand Bostonians on TV made me sick.[/quote]
Oh. I wasn’t expecting that. Thanks for restoring some of my faith in your lovely country. 
[quote]Sifu wrote:
There was a plot a few years ago to fly airplanes into the Eifel tower that got stopped. [/quote]
I’ll have to call BS on this one. Feel free to prove me wrong by providing a credible news source account.
I sure didn’t hear Al-Qaeda threaten France lately. I know for fact that it unambiguously called for harming the US pre-9/11 and the “coalition” post-2003. Again, feel free to correct me by pointing to a communique by Al-Zawahiri that I might have missed.
Yeah right! The fact that Sarkozy, the Jewry’s chouchou is in the Elysee puts a dent in your argument.
I agree that it’s unacceptable, but to say that it’s “the tip of the iceburg”(sic), is pure speculation. Last I checked, anti-Semitism was alive and kickin’ in the US too. To accuse French Muslims of attacking the Jews is religious bigotry as well. You see, it works both ways!
Don’t try to obfuscate things, it won’t work. Let me refresh your memory. Here’s your ridiculous assertion:
“France didn’t help with Iraq yet they have alot of attacks. So you are wrong.”
Either you substantiate your claim, or admit that you were wrong. It’s that simple. Do you think you have the balls to do that?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sifu wrote:
There was a plot a few years ago to fly airplanes into the Eifel tower that got stopped.
I’ll have to call BS on this one. Feel free to prove me wrong by providing a credible news source account.
However AQ keeps coming back to a target until they get it. That is why they launched two attacks on the world trade center.
I sure didn’t hear Al-Qaeda threaten France lately. I know for fact that it unambiguously called for harming the US pre-9/11 and the “coalition” post-2003. Again, feel free to correct me by pointing to a communique by Al-Zawahiri that I might have missed.
If you look at France today you will see that there are a lot of attacks on Jews coming from French muslims. This is why you see an exodus of French Jews out of France.
Yeah right! The fact that Sarkozy, the Jewry’s chouchou is in the Elysee puts a dent in your argument.
Maybe to some a couple of Jews getting lynched doesn’t count as terrorism but it is violent religious bigotry and just the tip of the iceburg.
I agree that it’s unacceptable, but to say that it’s “the tip of the iceburg”(sic), is pure speculation. Last I checked, anti-Semitism was alive and kickin’ in the US too. To accuse French Muslims of attacking the Jews is religious bigotry as well. You see, it works both ways!
Don’t try to obfuscate things, it won’t work. Let me refresh your memory. Here’s your ridiculous assertion:
“France didn’t help with Iraq yet they have alot of attacks. So you are wrong.”
Either you substantiate your claim, or admit that you were wrong. It’s that simple. Do you think you have the balls to do that?[/quote]
I like this Lixy chap… Is he new?
If you follow the news you would know this one has been mentioned a few times including at Zacharias Mousaoui trial. All you have to do is google search eiffel tower and do an advanced search with the exact phrase fly planes into and you will get over two hundred hits.
CBS - APRIL 4, 2004
1994
An Algerian hijacking is foiled in Marseille, France. The French government reveals the target was the Eiffel Tower and warns the next step for terrorists is to train as pilots. A Pentagon-commissioned report concludes that religious terrorists could hijack commercial airliners and crash them into the Pentagon or the White House.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/08/calls_from_sept_11_jet_rivet_courtroom/?page=2
Anticev at first asserted: ''I don’t think anybody was looking at using aircraft as weapons," but acknowledged that the FBI had been aware before Sept. 11 that an Algerian group linked to Al Qaeda planned to fly airliners into the Eiffel Tower and into a cathedral in Strasbourg, France.
American anti semititsm is not at the same level as European anti semitism. Jews in American society are far more numerous and dispersed. People here have a lot more interaction with them. Plus Americans don’t romanticise the PLO etc… like Europeans do.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
CBS - APRIL 4, 2004
1994
An Algerian hijacking is foiled in Marseille, France. The French government reveals the target was the Eiffel Tower and warns the next step for terrorists is to train as pilots. A Pentagon-commissioned report concludes that religious terrorists could hijack commercial airliners and crash them into the Pentagon or the White House.[/quote]
This is just pathetic. What’s a 1994 event gotta do with the current war in Iraq?
Do you even know that there was a civil war in Algeria at that period?
[quote]Calls from Sept. 11 jet rivet courtroom - The Boston Globe
Anticev at first asserted: ''I don’t think anybody was looking at using aircraft as weapons," but acknowledged that the FBI had been aware before Sept. 11 that an Algerian group linked to Al Qaeda planned to fly airliners into the Eiffel Tower and into a cathedral in Strasbourg, France. [/quote]
The keyword here is before. How can you possibly argue that a planned attack by the FIS or the GIA (not Al-Qaeda!) on France in the 90’s supports your claim that the post-2003 attacks on European countries weren’t directly correlated with their support of Bush’s war?
Your logic (or lack thereof) is truly astounding.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sifu wrote:
CBS - APRIL 4, 2004
1994
An Algerian hijacking is foiled in Marseille, France. The French government reveals the target was the Eiffel Tower and warns the next step for terrorists is to train as pilots. A Pentagon-commissioned report concludes that religious terrorists could hijack commercial airliners and crash them into the Pentagon or the White House.
This is just pathetic. What’s a 1994 event gotta do with the current war in Iraq?
Do you even know that there was a civil war in Algeria at that period?
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/08/calls_from_sept_11_jet_rivet_courtroom/?page=2
Anticev at first asserted: ''I don’t think anybody was looking at using aircraft as weapons," but acknowledged that the FBI had been aware before Sept. 11 that an Algerian group linked to Al Qaeda planned to fly airliners into the Eiffel Tower and into a cathedral in Strasbourg, France.
The keyword here is before. How can you possibly argue that a planned attack by the FIS or the GIA (not Al-Qaeda!) on France in the 90’s supports your claim that the post-2003 attacks on European countries weren’t directly correlated with their support of Bush’s war?
Your logic (or lack thereof) is truly astounding.[/quote]
http://www.brook.edu/views/op-ed/riedel/20070614.htm
Al Qaeda Targets France
Los Angeles Times, June 14, 2007
Bruce Riedel, Senior Fellow, Saban Center for Middle East Policy
France’s recently elected President Nicolas Sarkozy faces a new challenge to the security of his nation from some old foes: Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda movement. One of Al Qaeda’s top priorities in the last year has been to create a franchise in Algeria to serve as a node for jihad in North Africa and throughout the Maghrebi diaspora in Western Europe.
Bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman Zawahiri, negotiated with the Algerian Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat for two years or more on the terms and conditions for having the group join the movement. Late last year, Bin Laden ordered that the group be renamed Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, and it began conducting attacks in that name soon thereafter, starting with a series of strikes at police stations and Western oil targets.
On April 12, the new group carried out multiple suicide car bombings, previously unknown in Algeria, targeting the prime minister’s offices and police headquarters in Algiers, killing almost three dozen people. A truck bomb was apparently defused.
But Zawahiri has made clear that it is France that’s the major target. In announcing Al Qaeda’s new Maghrebi franchise on Sept. 11, 2006, Zawahiri declared that it would be “a source of chagrin, frustration and sadness for the apostates [of the regime in Algeria], the treacherous sons of France,” and he urged the group to become “a bone in the throat of the American and French crusaders.” French intelligence officials anticipate attacks on French targets in North Africa and probably in France itself sooner or later. Indeed, jihadist websites in Europe have predicted an attack on French interests since Sarkozy’s victory.
Threats against France are not new for the old Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat. According to media reports, in February 2005, for example, the French domestic intelligence agency estimated that the group had about 5,000 sympathizers and militants in France, centered on 500 hard-core individuals. Many in France’s Algerian community are already angry at Sarkozy for his tough words during the 2005 riots in their urban ghettos, and he is considered to be much more sympathetic to Israel than his predecessor.
Zawahiri’s warning should be taken very seriously in Europe and by the United States. Al Qaeda has struck in London, Istanbul and Madrid. There have been past reports of plans by Algerian terrorist groups to attack American and Israeli targets in France and Belgium, as well as NATO or European Union installations.
Finally, one should recall that the first-ever plan to fly a hijacked airliner into a target on the ground was a thwarted 1994 plot by Algerian jihadists to crash an Air France jet into the Eiffel Tower, which the 9/11 commission rightly said may have been the model for the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
© Copyright 2007 Los Angeles Times
Lixy, seeing that you are of Algerian and French heritage it is odd that you do not know these things, unless of course you are being diahonest…
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
I like this Lixy chap… Is he new?[/quote]
You’ll learn everything you need within three weeks about this chap. A veritable one tune band.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Lixy, seeing that you are of Algerian and French heritage it is odd that you do not know these things, unless of course you are being diahonest…
[/quote]
Gasp! lixy, manipulating facts to advance his own agenda? Why, there’s only a few examples of this. Certainly not enough for blanket judgement. Wait until he has a bakers dozen.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Lixy, seeing that you are of Algerian and French heritage it is odd that you do not know these things, unless of course you are being diahonest… [/quote]
My grandmother is Algerian, not me.
Anyway, what you presented is hardly of any support to Sifu’s claim. The GIA’s (that later became the GSPC) beef with France predates Iraq. You see, back in the 90’s the group was already terrorizing France. Their support base was seriously undercut by the brutal Algerian civil war. Not that I concur with their message in any way, but after all, they won the elections fair and square.
Yes, the GSPC has pledged allegiance to Ben Laden. But, their problems with France’s can’t be connected to their lack of participation in Iraq. Actually, I’m pretty confident that had France been in the “coalition”, they’d have been hit just like Spain or the Brits. But that’s just speculation…
Look again at Sifu’s assertion:
[i]The countries in Europe that are under the highest threat are the ones with large muslim populations. Out of those countries the ones under the highest threat are the ones who took a stand against Hitler in world war two.
That’s why Sweden hasn’t been hit. They don’t have a lot of muslims and they sided with Hitler in world war two.
France didn’t help with Iraq yet they have a lot of attacks. So you are wrong.[/i]
Do you think that he’s right in any way?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Lixy, seeing that you are of Algerian and French heritage it is odd that you do not know these things, unless of course you are being diahonest…
My grandmother is Algerian, not me.
Anyway, what you presented is hardly of any support to Sifu’s claim. The GIA’s (that later became the GSPC) beef with France predates Iraq. You see, back in the 90’s the group was already terrorizing France. Their support base was seriously undercut by the brutal Algerian civil war. Not that I concur with their message in any way, but after all, they won the elections fair and square.
Yes, the GSPC has pledged allegiance to Ben Laden. But, their problems with France’s can’t be connected to their lack of participation in Iraq. Actually, I’m pretty confident that had France been in the “coalition”, they’d have been hit just like Spain or the Brits. But that’s just speculation…
Look again at Sifu’s assertion:
[i]The countries in Europe that are under the highest threat are the ones with large muslim populations. Out of those countries the ones under the highest threat are the ones who took a stand against Hitler in world war two.
That’s why Sweden hasn’t been hit. They don’t have a lot of muslims and they sided with Hitler in world war two.
France didn’t help with Iraq yet they have a lot of attacks. So you are wrong.[/i]
Do you think that he’s right in any way?[/quote]
AQ is threatening to hit France and France was not involved in Iraq. What am I missing?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
AQ is threatening to hit France and France was not involved in Iraq. What am I missing?[/quote]
Al-Qaeda is threatening every country on Earth. They even consider every Muslim - not affiliated with them - as a heretic.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
AQ is threatening to hit France and France was not involved in Iraq. What am I missing?
Al-Qaeda is threatening every country on Earth. They even consider every Muslim - not affiliated with them - as a heretic.[/quote]
Ahh… nothing beats being drunk except being drunk and seeing a post I want to reply to. Apologies in advance 
Quick question. What, in your opinion, are the governments of other Islamic states doing to halt what must be just as much a threat to them? I don’t really know too much about that, other than media-staged photo-ops with some community leader from a council estate in Bradford shaking hands with Tony Blair - which is hardly the same thing. I would love to know more about this as that voice doesn’t seem to get much air over here. That voice of the muslim scared by the threat they pose. Very interesting…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"Top Judge Warns of High Terror Threat
BY MAR ROMAN, Associated Press Writer
5 hours ago
MADRID, Spain - The threat of terrorism in Europe remains very high due to anger over the Iraqi war and the growing influence of North African groups linked to al-Qaida, a leading anti-terrorism judge warned Thursday.
[/quote]
My my, talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I thought you thought the war in Iraq would keep the world safe from terrorism. Now you’re agreeing with somebody who states the opposite.
[quote]“The actual threat for Europe is high, very high indeed,” Jean-Louis Bruguiere, a top investigator of Islamic terrorism in France, told a press conference in Madrid.
“The Iraqi conflict has nurtured the Islamic groups living in Europe,” he said, adding that Iraq also remains a magnet for the recruitment of Islamic extremists.[/quote]
See what I mean?
[quote]Bruguiere said militants heading to Iraq are increasingly going with the goal to train, and then return to their home countries in Europe to plot attacks."
Even though most European countries did NOT go into Iraq, the Extremists don’t care. In fact, they probably take that as a sign of weakness.
[/quote]
We know you see it as a sign of weakness. The list of similarities between the islam-fundamentalists and the christian-fundamentalists like HH continues to grow.
[quote]Europeans, better get into the fight soon, or you’ll be taking orders from Mullah Omar or equivalent.
[/quote]
Is that Jean-Louis talking? It sounds more like your incoherent thoughts.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
1-Pack,
Glad you and no one else got hurt.
Will there come a day when Muslims, peaceful or not, will be rounded up and put into concentration camps, or deported? It seems to me that the extremists are simply pushing the Western Europeans to adopting continually harsher methods. For ex, the number of street cameras in London is up about 5 fold. The average Londoner gets photographed about 300 times per day (according to ABC news).
If a major terrorist act occurs, I can see such a thing happening.[/quote]
I’m sure you can. But why are you bothering us with your wet dreams? Some things I don’t need to know, ok?